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Or another route I could take, if possible is reinstall windows 7 on it, then without putting anything on the hard drive yet, upgrade to windows 10.
On a machine that still had a recovery partition I did exactly that as for some reason the ISO didn't work and 10 was corrupted.
 

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Moderator TSF, Hardware Team Moderator
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Or another route I could take, if possible is reinstall windows 7 on it, then without putting anything on the hard drive yet, upgrade to windows 10.
That could work too, but bringing Windows 7 up to date with the required updates for an in-place upgrade to 10 is a painfully long process. Downloading an older version or two of Windows 10 is still way faster.
What build would you go with, if I wanted tot totally play it safe, the first/original one I'm guessing.
1903 or 1909, not older than that.
 

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Moderator TSF, Hardware Team Moderator
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Neither 1909 or 1903 is an option in rufus goes from 180364 to 19041 thinking I should try the latter.
1909 = 19H2 while 1903 = 19H1.
Rufus is just a USB Flash drive burning software, it doesn't offer any Microsoft Windows 10 ISO images.
It actually offers downloading any release of Windows 10 using a powershell script. The downloads offered are straight from MS servers. For example, the link for 1909 International English 64-bit version is https://software-download.microsoft...1616186750&h=8217130a00408ab234cb5dca02e1a8c9. See screenshots:
rufus-3.13p_2021-03-18_23-43-04.png


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Discussion Starter · #146 · (Edited)
It didn't work, when I tried to boot up with the 32GB flash drive formatted with 1903. But, I notice a common trend that has happened with it and other flash drive boots is it STARTS to boot correctly, then goes back to the bios startup screen with the swirling dots. Maybe finding out why this is happening is key to solving it.

I always choose the boot override menu to boot with right then and there in the BIOS, sometimes the same device will be listed twice there as UEFI and non UEFI but neither one works.

I have recorded (and can post) videos of boots with both the 1903 (legacy and UEFI) and boots with the 20H2 (legacy and UEFI) with the DVD, all of them end in the same PNP watchdog BSOD error.
 

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Discussion Starter · #148 ·
Actually, I found this, this is a little more accurate as to what I was doing Driver PNP Watchdog Error

Basically, they're saying the same thing you and spunk have said, that my computer is old. It's just the computer cost about 3.6K when I got it in 2012, want to see if I can squeeze the most life out of it as possible. I can see what drivers are old and also what hardware needs to be replaced. I didn't install Windows 10 directly on the computer, but upgraded from Windows 7. I've attached a receipt of the computer when I bought it and it's components, some of them have changed, I replace all the ram it has like 48 GB of it right now, no water cooler anymore (didn't need it since I don't overclock)

You said that if I installed Windows 7, I would have to wait a long time to install all the updates. So, are you saying I can still download all the old updates- up until the point they stopped making new ones available?

What if just installed windows 7, didn't download any updates- just upgraded to Windows 10 immediately then installed the updates for that?

If the only choice is to buy a new computer, then I will do so, probably won't spend as much this time, probably use my tax refund. I still think there are uses for this one however. It wouldn't make it useless if I can't run Windows 10 on it.

At the very least I just want to know why Windows 10 PESE boots from a flash drive while other builds don't, not that I'd be able to do anything about it.
330877
 

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Moderator TSF, Hardware Team Moderator
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See my previous reply. The suggestions there might work for you too. What version of Windows is your Windows 10 PESE media based on?
 

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Discussion Starter · #150 · (Edited)
See my previous reply. The suggestions there might work for you too. What version of Windows is your Windows 10 PESE media based on?
Says when I boot with under help- about windows under system that it is version 1607 OS OS builld 14393

I don't fully understand all those suggestions in the thread, one of them was to change the sata controller to IDE, when I do that I get a different error message when I try to boot from the flash drive, saying that something is wrong and needs to be repaired rather than the pnp watchdog error.

Right now, the hard drive is in the desktop, but is not connected to either power or the motherboard. Since I'm booting (trying to) boot from a flash drive I don't see how the OS/hard drive is involved, at least not the full version of the OS on the hard drive,

All that is involved is the bios trying to boot from the flash drive, but the new error message may about the hard drive being disconnected and it can't boot from it. Again, not sure what that has to do with the flash drive and the iso on it itself, but you had said earlier in the thread to disconnect the hard drive and try it, which it is now.
 

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Moderator TSF, Hardware Team Moderator
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It didn't work, when I tried to boot up with the 32GB flash drive formatted with 1903. But, I notice a common trend that has happened with it and other flash drive boots is it STARTS to boot correctly, then goes back to the bios startup screen with the swirling dots. Maybe finding out why this is happening is key to solving it.
The swirling dots are the Windows 10 boot animation. They are normal and expected. They are an indication of the boot progress. When you boot in UEFI mode, you'll see the OEM brand logo and the swiring dots, but in legacy boot mode, you'll only see the swirling dots. We've already established that booting is failing as a result of a BSOD, most likely caused by unsupported hardware configuration.

It's just the computer cost about 3.6K when I got it in 2012, want to see if I can squeeze the most life out of it as possible...I still think there are uses for this one however. It wouldn't make it useless if I can't run Windows 10 on it.
Unfortunately, a high price tag doesn't guarantee compatibility with ALL OS versions. You can repurpose old hardware in many other ways if the solutions offered here don't work.

You said that if I installed Windows 7, I would have to wait a long time to install all the updates. So, are you saying I can still download all the old updates- up until the point they stopped making new ones available?
Yes

What if just installed windows 7, didn't download any updates- just upgraded to Windows 10 immediately then installed the updates for that?
There are required updates that need to be installed prior to performing an in-place upgrade, but at this point, you have nothing but time to lose, so you could always try it and see how it goes.

At the very least I just want to know why Windows 10 PESE boots from a flash drive while other builds don't, not that I'd be able to do anything about it.
Here's your answer:

Says when I boot with under help- about windows under system that it is version 1607 OS OS builld 14393
I don't fully understand all those suggestions in the thread, one of them was to change the sata controller to IDE, when I do that I get a different error message when I try to boot from the flash drive, saying that something is wrong and needs to be repaired rather than the pnp watchdog error.
What exactly does the new error message say? At this point you surely must have noticed that being specific helps us help you better.

Right now, the hard drive is in the desktop, but is not connected to either power or the motherboard. Since I'm booting (trying to) boot from a flash drive I don't see how the OS/hard drive is involved, at least not the full version of the OS on the hard drive,

All that is involved is the bios trying to boot from the flash drive, but the new error message may about the hard drive being disconnected and it can't boot from it. Again, not sure what that has to do with the flash drive and the iso on it itself, but you had said earlier in the thread to disconnect the hard drive and try it, which it is now.
It's common for the BIOS/firmware to store a boot entry of the OS that was installed on the internal boot drive and try to boot from that entry even if the drive is not present anymore. This, as expected, results in failure to boot. It seems when you manually select to boot from the flash, the bsod happens and the system restarts/resets automatically (the bios splash screen appears again) and tries to boot from the saved boot order starting with the saved boot entry that points to a non-present HDD. If changing SATA mode to IDE still doesn't work, then there's nothing else left to do. That BSOD will most likely still happen if you use the Win 7 to 10 upgrade path, or slow down to a crawl if the BSOD doesn't botch the upgrade.
 

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Discussion Starter · #152 ·
Here's the error message I get when switching it from AHCI to IDE

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enter doesn't work, I tried F8, didn't give me any settings to choose IIRC- just restarted again, not sure about escape

I wonder if all I'd need to do just replace the hard drive itself and my system would be able to run later Windows 10 builds. I could see which hardware isn't compatible with it and what I'd need to replace, may be less expensive than buying a whole new computer.
 

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Moderator TSF, Hardware Team Moderator
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Changing from AHCI to IDE should not bring up that error IF you're booting from a USB flash drive. Your system was definitely not booting from the flash drive when it threw that error, but instead, was trying to boot from the detached HDD. Look at the saved boot order entries in your BIOS and confirm that there are no entries pointing to the detached HDD. The entry may be named "Windows Boot Manager", created after your last attempt to upgrade to Windows 10. Delete that entry since it's useless now. Also, change the boot order and place the USB flash drive on top of the list. I also recall instructing you to set boot mode to Legacy only (disable UEFI boot) due to the age of your system, to limit booting to legacy mode only. Then, and only then, should you try booting from Windows installation media while SATA controller mode is set to IDE.

The SATA controller is an integrated component of your motherboard (part of the chipset) and could no longer be compatible with the AHCI driver that's bundled in the Windows installation media you're trying to boot from. Changing to IDE mode forces Windows to use a different driver instead of the unsupported AHCI driver. Fixing incompatibility is not as simple as replacing the HDD, but that should be part of the plan considering the age of the drive. It's not a guarantee that the SATA controller is the offending component, though. It could be something else altogether, such as the Asmedia usb controller. Any incompatible or defunct device/drive could trigger the PNP watchdog BSOD. Defective touchpads on laptops are known to cause the same issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #154 ·
Changing from AHCI to IDE should not bring up that error IF you're booting from a USB flash drive. Your system was definitely not booting from the flash drive when it threw that error, but instead, was trying to boot from the detached HDD. Look at the saved boot order entries in your BIOS and confirm that there are no entries pointing to the detached HDD. The entry may be named "Windows Boot Manager", created after your last attempt to upgrade to Windows 10. Delete that entry since it's useless now. Also, change the boot order and place the USB flash drive on top of the list. I also recall instructing you to set boot mode to Legacy only (disable UEFI boot) due to the age of your system, to limit booting to legacy mode only. Then, and only then, should you try booting from Windows installation media while SATA controller mode is set to IDE.
I did all of this, set the mode to IDE, set it to legacy booting only. The drive the flash drive I am trying to boot from is build 1903. As you can see here in the BIOS. Here's a screenshot of my BIOS, with the boot order and boot override menu, I was thinking also, as I think spunk funk suggested disconnecting everything, the 3 other devices are two external hard drives and the optical dvd/cd drive.

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the bottom one highlighted looks a little hard to see. it says vendorcoproductcode 30,000 MB (the flash drive I'm trying to boot from)


Rather than choosing/changing the boot order and rebooting, I always pick the boot override to boot from what I want right then there- saves time. There;s no difference is there? Other than booting with the boot order set will try to boot from EACH device in order, but when I choose boot override it will only try to boot from the device I specify, correct?

Also, the hard drive was connected to the optical drive in the system, and it showed as a device when I had it connected in the bios, but it's ok that isn't connected to the optical drive- and that is connected to the motherboard, I recall IDE drives had a master/slave relationship setting, not sure about SATA.

And, here is the screenshot when I try choose to boot from the flash drive with build 1903 on it, as we can see it doesn't work in legacy, booting with it in UEFI gives the PNP watchdog error.

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The SATA controller is an integrated component of your motherboard (part of the chipset) and could no longer be compatible with the AHCI driver that's bundled in the Windows installation media you're trying to boot from. Changing to IDE mode forces Windows to use a different driver instead of the unsupported AHCI driver. Fixing incompatibility is not as simple as replacing the HDD, but that should be part of the plan considering the age of the drive. It's not a guarantee that the SATA controller is the offending component, though. It could be something else altogether, such as the Asmedia usb controller. Any incompatible or defunct device/drive could trigger the PNP watchdog BSOD. Defective touchpads on laptops are known to cause the same issue.
Maybe there's a way to see exactly everything (hardware and software) that isn't compatible with current windows 10 builds and it may be an upgrade/overhaul of my systems's hardware and software which may be less expensive than buying a whole new system.
 

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Disconnect both of your WD USB External Drives, and any other external drives on the computer. Boot to the Bios. Reset HDD mode back to AHCI. Uncheck Secure Boot, and CSM. Save and Exit. Place USB Flash drive created in Rufus. Restart with the Flash Drive in, boot back into the Bios. In Boot Override, Select the Flash drive and click the + or - sign to Move the Flash drive up to First Boot Device. Save and Exit (again) This should restart and boot to the USB Flash Drive. If so, shut down and insert an SSD or SATA HDD and try booting from Flash Drive again to install Windows.
 

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Discussion Starter · #156 ·
Disconnect both of your WD USB External Drives, and any other external drives on the computer. Boot to the Bios. Reset HDD mode back to AHCI. Uncheck Secure Boot, and CSM. Save and Exit.
Ok, will do

Place USB Flash drive created in Rufus. Restart with the Flash Drive in, boot back into the Bios. In Boot Override, Select the Flash drive and click the + or - sign to Move the Flash drive up to First Boot Device. Save and Exit (again)
Did you mean to say "In boot overide select the flash drive OR click the +/- sign to move the flash drive up to the first boot device? I'm just wondering what the difference is between selecting it in boot override to boot from it right then and there, and moving it up to the first boot device, the saving and exiting to reboot- don't they do the same thing?

This should restart and boot to the USB Flash Drive. If so, shut down and insert an SSD or SATA HDD and try booting from Flash Drive again to install Windows.
I'm thinking I should also disconnect the CD/DVD drive, if absolutely nothing is listed in the boot menu but the flash drive and it either

1. Gives me the same message I posted above about not being able to boot from the drive in legacy mode or
2. Tries to boot but I get the PNP watchdog error if I try to boot from it in UEFI mode

What will this mean? I'm thinking that I just CAN'T boot from the flash drive/later builds on windows no matter what with my current hardware and software setup, that I must upgrade hardware and software or get a whole new up to date system.
 

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In the Bios Override, You need to move the USB flash drive to the first boot device, just selecting it in the Bios does not move it to first device, so the Bios goes to whatever is the first device in the list. If one of the drives previously has boot files on it, then it will give you an error because it can't boot to that device.
 

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Discussion Starter · #158 · (Edited)
In the Bios Override, You need to move the USB flash drive to the first boot device, just selecting it in the Bios does not move it to first device, so the Bios goes to whatever is the first device in the list. If one of the drives previously has boot files on it, then it will give you an error because it can't boot to that device.
You understand how the bios override works, right? When I choose the device in it, then It boots from that device right then and there that I choose, regardless of what the boot order is above it. I'm not sure if the boot list would apply, if after I choose the device in boot override it won't try booting from the other devices/follow the order (if it can't boot from the device I chose) will it?

The boot order is for devices when I turn the system on, which is not what I'm doing.
 

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If Boot Override is not working, then change the Boot Order in the Bios.
 

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Discussion Starter · #160 ·
It is working, as far as I know. I think the problem it just can't boot from the drive

Anyway, what I'm thinking about doing is removing all the external hardwarem connected to the computer that I possibly can to try and boot, until they only thing it shows in the BIOS is the flash drive that it can boot from.

What about removing the keyboard from USB, at the very least I would need either the mouse or the keyboard to select things in the BIOS, Unless it could be something, as you mentioned, the RAM, video card, etc.
 
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