[piotrowr2012]

Hi, I'm experiencing a issue that started about a month ago while troubleshooting another problem but not sure if related or not.

The PC upon startup will sit for 20-30 or even more minutes in "Starting Windows" and seems to be doing something but difficult to tell. Sometimes it will make it to the user login, other times it seems to lock up forcing a hard shutdown. I'm in safe mode now after a couple of attempts.

A couple recent events. My internet clock was not syncing so I used this forum to troubleshoot that (time windows service was missing from my pc). It is working better with interval set to an every hour frequency but not 100%. Often the service stops itself or has error while syncing for the time difference being too large? Anyway a manual update usually works.

Also recently I hooked up a new 1080p LED 23" monitor and am now running HDMI from the motherboard video. I couple of times when I noticed the PC lock up, the screen freezes and a static type pattern appears. I tried running of the other video outputs but have not had repeatable success (back on HDMI).

I had one error I had never seen just today where when I went to boot up the PC said it had an error reading the drive and side to press ctl-alt-del to restart, which I did. But this was something that has never occurred just after the bios initializes. Can the drive be having issues? I've scanned for errors a couple months back and plan to again.

It would be great to have some kind of diagnostic run to see if it can pinpoint to either a specific hardware issue, etc. The most frustrating this is why it sits for so long waiting to boot in "Starting Windows" and sometimes does and others does not.

Thank you for your advice.

 

[[email protected]]

Re: Why does PC take 30 min to boot

Based on the symptoms, I'd think it would be logical to assume that there is something going on with the HDD. This can be as simple as a dirty connector to the HDD or as complex as an internal failure of the drive.

To give you the best advice, we'd need some info about your system. Model numbers, age, etc. of the computer, PSU, and HDD.

 

[piotrowr2012]

Re: Why does PC take 30 min to boot

Thanks, to answer on the config:

CPU was put together about 3 years ago by magic micro (barebone pc maker on ebay).

OS: win7
MB: Asus M4A88TD-M/USB (bios 1401)
CPU: AMD Phenom II X6 1090T (3200 MHz)
DDR: DDR3 (PC3-12800H) 4 slots 2048 MB capacity part number F6456U61F9600G
HD: WDC WD1002FAEX-00Z3A0 1000 GB SN WD-WCATR3788598
ASUS monitor.

The video card was removed about a year ago after working with magic micro on troubleshooting intermittent reboots (they suspected the video card 1st so PC was running fine for a while after it was removed).

I forgot to mention I was dealing with a lot of BSOD issues a couple months ago that were resolved after scanning for malware and also performing system restores.

Let me know what else might be needed.

 

[shawnpb]

Re: Why does PC take 30 min to boot

Can you post the make and wattage of your PSU please.
Also have you tried cleaning out any dust inside the tower?

Also run the WD (Western Digital) Hard drive test follow steps below. Use the 5.4 version.

From another pc or yours if Windows loads ok.
Downloading UBCD which is in my signature.Burn the ISO Image to a blank CD using Imgburn (How to burn a ISO Image using Imgburn) burn at lowest speed. With the newly burned cd boot with the cd go to HDD>Diagnostics>The make and model of your hard drive, Seagate, Maxtor, Drive Fitness which is Hitachi, Or Western Digital. Perform a short and long test. Could also be called "Standard" and "Extended" test or also "Comprehensive" test. The Seagate hard drive test will work on most drives.

In your case Western Digital hard drive test is what you want perform a Extended test. It will perform a short test first then you have to hit the C button to continue with the Extended test.

 

[[email protected]]

Re: Why does PC take 30 min to boot

I see Jack beat me to it, but, here's the link to the WD test:

Data Lifeguard Diagnostic.

To add to what Jack is saying, unplug the computer, press and hold the power button for several seconds, open the case and check in there. Blow out any dust, check the connections...particularly pay attention to the SATA cables going to the HDD. Remove and replace them, noting if any seem loose.

I'm not sure what is going on with the clock. You have a button battery on the mobo that tells the computer what the time is and those do loose charge so you might check that out too. They're 3V and only a couple dollars so you might check it. Syncing to the internet time is fine, but it needs that battery to be charged to keep the time close to reality. If you turn off your computer with a switch (like from a power strip) at the end of a work day and the battery is dead, that could account for the time slip.

 

[piotrowr2012]

Re: Why does PC take 30 min to boot

Thanks for the advise guys! I will do that. I have been in the PC to remove the video card and replace MB and did some blowing out at that time but will repeat it since I have to go in again anyway to check connections. the case is a very tight fit design so it is possible things got loose when I'm sliding everything into the case (it's one of those low profile cases with the MB mounted to the slide on the bottom side). I will never get one of these again thinking it would be a space saver but very frustrating to troubleshoot with. When I get it opened I'll send over the PSU info. Regarding CPU, I reseated with new compound when I received a new MB for the bios clock issue. I have replaced the battery and still the clock would run fast over time so Asus replaced it under warranty. This though was over a year ago and I'm still having the same clock issues with a 2nd MB!!!

 

[[email protected]]

Re: Why does PC take 30 min to boot

Then the clock issue sounds like a design error, since it's doubtful that you'd get two mobos with the same defect. Not likely that ANY mobo manufacturer would own up to it but ASUS is probably working on a BIOS upgrade to institute a workaround. If I owned that board, I'd be bugging them regularly with emails asking when they were going to fix it.

When you're inside the case, see if you can find the serial number of the mobo, so when you email ASUS you can give them that.

As far as your original issue goes, taking 30 minutes to boot, many times when I've run into this it was because of the capacitor plague. But your mobo is only 3 years old so it probably has solid caps on the board. I think what's happening is that the BIOS is sending corrupt info to the OS...which then runs it's own tests to see what's going on and takes forever to complete them. Like I mentioned before, this can be as simple as a poor connection to the HDD. It can also be a bad keyboard, bad mouse, bad external device, especially an external HDD. The OS keeps querying the device(s) that the BIOS told it existed and a bad device is sending good data/bad data often enough that it hangs the OS. Does that make sense?

 

[piotrowr2012]

Re: Why does PC take 30 min to boot

[email protected], What you say on the original issue sounds reasonable. What you say on the MB I have researched when the 2nd one was having the problem and found some literature on a defective processor on it but thought what are the chances. There is a new bios out recently but I have not updates as Asus was telling me to ensure my bios was update on the last time I had the clock issues and it was at the time. There is a new version and I have plans to do this soon.... But see if what I tell you about what occurred today aligns with what you're saying then maybe I can really narrow it down. Obviously I'm frustrated with the boot up and kick myself every time I actually get the thing up and running only to shutdown at the end of the day and go through the same bs the next day. Well today when I booted up in the am it hung up on starting windows as usual with the fans running really hard (thing went into temperature default to protect the cpu). But the screen stays on the starting windows instead of the intermittent reboots I had when the the video card was suspect few months back. Well of course I hold down the power button, reboot and send it into repair. It goes through the repair (takes quite some time, 30 min?) asks if I want to system restore (I say yes, what else is there to lose) then reboots on it's own and boots up normal to login, only this time it takes the usual 30 or so seconds, not minutes! I'm happy so I do what I need to get done and just before I decide to shutdown once up for about an hour I go to work for the day with it running. I come home 6 hours later it's where I left it, no issues, still running. Of course I would bet $10,000 right now if I reboot it will hang up and stay in startup for quite some time but the thing that's unique about today vs prior weeks is it went through the repair successfully and booted up in a matter of seconds w/o me doing anything you recommend so far. I will take a couple hours soon to do the check because of the intermittent nature of the issue. I think you're onto something and with all the interventions lately something may just need to be wiggled into place...

PS, I have hung up in bios menu a couple times in the past week so communication at that critical time is def not working well.

 

[piotrowr2012]

Re: Why does PC take 30 min to boot

Just needed to add that my external HDD is disconnect at this point for my similar suspicions and also I recently had a new keyboard I installed but removed. I'm currently sort of OEM to where I was when I got the pc put together besides the new monitor and hdmi. I will keep all the externals besides essentials disconnected for now and go from there...

 

[[email protected]]

Re: Why does PC take 30 min to boot

PS, I have hung up in bios menu a couple times in the past week so communication at that critical time is def not working well.

OK, now this is new. You haven't mention this before. A hang in BIOS brings up a whole new set of possible issues.

But, ya know, you've got a work around now...leaving the computer on 24/7, (and millions of businesses do the same thing), so let it run a while and see what happens. You've got 30 days of not posting anything here before the thread is closed so you can leave it open if you wish.

FYI, I had similar problems with this old computer I'm using now, and I too finally just left it on 24/7 as much as I could to get around the issue (I'm a full time RV'er so I did have to turn it off occasionally as I was traveling). What it finally turned out to be was a two part-er. The PSU was going bad, so I replaced it with a spare, but the problems crept back to harass me, and it turned out that the mobo had the cap plague. A new PSU, and a cap kit replacing all the caps fixed the issues and it's been happy for over a year now. Working fine about 14 hours per day.

Now, in your case your mobo is really too new to have the cap plague (unless it's come back) but your PSU might be suspect. Did you ever check out what the Brand & Model were?

 

[piotrowr2012]

Re: Why does PC take 30 min to boot

All, I went ahead and took it apart and ensured all connections are solid, blew out all the dust and put it back together but still taking a long time to boot on 1st try. Did restart and when it froze up while in windows. The PSU is Thermaltake TR2 RX-650AL3CH. I managed to get it up after a few attempts and will soon be doing the HD checks.

 

[[email protected]]

Re: Why does PC take 30 min to boot

OK, well, there's another thing to think about which comes to mind with it hanging during POST (Power On Self Test)...and that's memory. While you have the computer case open, remove and replace in a different socket, each memory stick. Rotate them. It wouldn't hurt to do a memtst either. Or, check the BIOS to see if there is a memory setting you can change.

I think you PSU is probably OK but FYI it's not on our list of quality PSUs in that wattage range. Any chance you have a substitute PSU on hand?

 

[GZ]

Re: Why does PC take 30 min to boot

TR2 RX-650AL3CH.

As far as I can tell, this PSU is manufactured by HEC... Not a big fan of HEC.

Here is a HWSecrets in-depth review on the TR2 750 (also by HEC)...

Thermaltake TR2 RX 750 W Power Supply Review | Hardware Secrets

If you want to skip the technobabble, skip to page 9 (conclusions).

Thermaltake TR2 RX 750 W is, according to our methodology, a flawed product that must be avoided at all costs. It can't deliver it's labeled wattage at high temperatures, but this is not the worst of it: ripple and noise level are way above the maximum allowed when you pull 80% or more from the unit's labeled capacity (i.e. 600 W and above), overloading your components (especially electrolytic capacitors from the motherboard and video cards), which can cause your PC to present an erratic behavior (crashes and random resets) and, under extreme conditions, damaged components.

 

[[email protected]]

Re: Why does PC take 30 min to boot

Huh. When I read the Ecos 80Plus report for the OP's PSU, it shows the manufacturer to be Thermaltake, not HEC. The TR2 RX 750W you show in the above quote is not the same PSU...

Now, if the OP's PSU is actually made by HEC, that would be different. Actually, Thermaltake buys their PSUs from Fortron Source Power Group. But that company doesn't make HEC. Until I can find evidence that HEC and Thermaltake are the same, I will assume that his PSU is probably pretty well made under the direction of Thermaltake.

 

[[email protected]]

Re: Why does PC take 30 min to boot

Well, drilling down on the PSU info, I can find two sources that list the manufacturer of the TR2 series of Thermaltake PSUs as HEC. But nothing saying exactly that the Thermaltake TR2 RX-650AL3CH is also made by HEC. Then, it's difficult to find any technical review of this exact PSU. The ECOS rating of the Thermaltake TR2 RX-650AL3CH rates it at 80Plus (tests performed by independent labs), but this is really nothing but an efficiency test and not an in-depth review.

Arrrrrgggghhhh!

I think what's most telling is that this particular model has been discontinued. Perhaps from excessive returns. It originally had a 3 year warranty but Thermaltake says that doesn't apply to discontinued models. If OP bought his before it was discontinued, he'd possibly be able to get a replacement from Thermaltake, if they determined it was bad, and would get a replacement that wasn't a TR2. But the replacement could quite possibly be poorer quality.

So, we'll throw this into the OPs court.

Piotrowr2012, you may have an inferior quality PSU that may possibly have excessive noise and ripple on the power lines...especially on the 12V rails. Your symptoms could be the result of a bad PSU. It's typical for a PSU to degrade over time, especially if it was poor quality to begin with, so the delay between purchase and the onset of symptoms isn't that unusual.

So the suggestion is that you borrow or buy a high quality PSU to test with. If you buy a new PSU, even if that doesn't solve the issue you're having now, it's handy to have.

 

[piotrowr2012]

Re: Why does PC take 30 min to boot

Sorry it took so long to get back. Just a horrible weekend trying to get the thing even running. Still booting up for ever in all cases but in a couple was frozen at user login screen. Once it froze in windows and once actually had a BSOD. This is the 1st one in a month at least so not sure how significant at this time. Powered it up this morning and successfully got to windows so left on for the day and it's good. One thing I noticed when it freezes or cant boot up the fans go into overdrive. I don't mind picking up a new PSU, any suggestions? I had done a memtst when trouble shooting the BSOD a while back and all was fine at the time. I'll start with the HD and PSU and go from there.

 

[[email protected]]

Re: Why does PC take 30 min to boot

The link I show in my last post gives TSF's recommendations for PSU's based on wattage.

 

[jenae]

Re: Why does PC take 30 min to boot

Hi, it is valid to test PSU HDD and memory when you have startup problems, however you should also use in built dignostics.

Go to start, search and type:- perfmon, expand reliability monitor and look for issues. Perform a clean boot :-

How to perform a clean boot to troubleshoot a problem in Windows Vista, Windows 7, or Windows 8

Log in with a different user (try the diagnostic hidden admin account) cmd as admin :-

net user administrator /active:yes (press enter) to eliminate a corrupt account.

Open run, and type msconfig under Boot, check "boot log" after boot the log will be located in:-

C:\Windows\ ntbtlog.txt it will open in notepad.

EDIT:- got called away, you can also force windows to give you a verbose startup (you will see where it is hanging) need to mod the registry. Copy all below into notepad then from "File" select "save as" call it verbose.reg and save to desktop. Locate the saved file and double click agree to add to registry. To remove simply open regedit and right click on the value "verbosestatus" select modify and change the value data to 0.

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\System]
"verbosestatus"=dword:00000001

 

[piotrowr2012]

Re: Why does PC take 30 min to boot

Can you post the make and wattage of your PSU please.
Also have you tried cleaning out any dust inside the tower?

Also run the WD (Western Digital) Hard drive test follow steps below. Use the 5.4 version.

From another pc or yours if Windows loads ok.
Downloading UBCD which is in my signature.Burn the ISO Image to a blank CD using Imgburn (How to burn a ISO Image using Imgburn) burn at lowest speed. With the newly burned cd boot with the cd go to HDD>Diagnostics>The make and model of your hard drive, Seagate, Maxtor, Drive Fitness which is Hitachi, Or Western Digital. Perform a short and long test. Could also be called "Standard" and "Extended" test or also "Comprehensive" test. The Seagate hard drive test will work on most drives.

In your case Western Digital hard drive test is what you want perform a Extended test. It will perform a short test first then you have to hit the C button to continue with the Extended test.

All tests requested above were preformed with zero errors on the WD HDD. HDD does not appear to have any issues. I'm moving on to the PSU and other recommendations.

 

[piotrowr2012]

Re: Why does PC take 30 min to boot

Hi, it is valid to test PSU HDD and memory when you have startup problems, however you should also use in built dignostics.

Go to start, search and type:- perfmon, expand reliability monitor and look for issues. Perform a clean boot :-

How to perform a clean boot to troubleshoot a problem in Windows Vista, Windows 7, or Windows 8

Log in with a different user (try the diagnostic hidden admin account) cmd as admin :-

net user administrator /active:yes (press enter) to eliminate a corrupt account.

Open run, and type msconfig under Boot, check "boot log" after boot the log will be located in:-

C:\Windows\ ntbtlog.txt it will open in notepad.

EDIT:- got called away, you can also force windows to give you a verbose startup (you will see where it is hanging) need to mod the registry. Copy all below into notepad then from "File" select "save as" call it verbose.reg and save to desktop. Locate the saved file and double click agree to add to registry. To remove simply open regedit and right click on the value "verbosestatus" select modify and change the value data to 0.

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\System]
"verbosestatus"=dword:00000001

I'll go ahead and do this this evening but what do you need me to report back?