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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
please, someone look and tell me how bad you think it looks. and, right off the bat, does anyone see anything broken, or see anything i could improve?

http://www.techsupportforum.com/dasupport/index.html

i'm still an html noob, i had major problems with my frames, and then i am told that frames aren't even the best way to do things. can anyone explain why frames aren't good?
 

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The frames aren't half bad...

My advice is to remove the blue link border from the main banner to keep it from looking like an ad, and to make the menu bar dark grey and the text there white.

I dig the white-on-black text though, it's really easier to read than black on white.
 

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Kiomi, everything seems to be working how it is intended. The reason that you've heard frames are not the best approach to web design is because of compatibility issues. Here's what you have to keep in mind:

1: Some older browsers, such as older versions of netscape won't handle them well. There are also many little flukes that can happen when you use frames. For example, internet explorer won't display a frame if the page it points to is built on php.
2: The technology will soon be mainstream that allows you to browse a webpage on your pda, cellphone, etc. Whether frames will work or not on these systems is quesitonable.
3: Frames are considered "politically incorrect" in the professional design world, as many users utilizing assistive readers (that read your code instead of the appearance of your website) don't have access to the information in your frames. I.E. they get nothing out of your webpage.
...
So basically, as long as they work, there's nothing wrong with frames. But if you want to be sure that your site is actually working on all platforms, experiment with CSS.

If you want me to elaborate on anything, please let me know. I'd be happy to.
-Six
 

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Kiomi said:
i'm still an html noob, i had major problems with my frames, and then i am told that frames aren't even the best way to do things. can anyone explain why frames aren't good?
Although not the only, some of the main gripes about frames include usability and the manner in which they are handled by search engines. As I do not wish to reinvent the wheel and document an issue that is already covered quite well, I'll direct you to two links:

Link One
Link Two

I recommend that you take the time to learn CSS thoroughly if you plan on developing web pages. Not only can you accomplish the same thing's you can accomplish with frames (as well as much more) using CSS, but it eliminates the problems that are standard with frames and allows you to develop web pages in a much more organized manner. If you're interested in learning some CSS, check out W3School's excellent guide to CSS.

-Ch4r
 

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well put ch4r... being clear and concise was never my strongpoint.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
holy wow. i've got alot of learning to do.

sixshooter, i want to ask, is the source code for your page encrypted? i looked at it, and for that tiny little page, there is way too much of what i can't even read.

and i see javascript written all over your code, is there a way to avoid java altogether? i find that i get at least 2 dozen java "viruses" per month, and i am to the point where i kind of detest java now, and have disabled javascript in my browser.

and ch4r, thank you for the links. they have schooled me a bit. i caught this on there, and it's describing me:
"They are often used by designers who are ignorant of these problems and who, in all reality, are not designing sites with the kind of complex navigational structure that they were designed to compensate for in the first place."


Fox said:
My advice is to remove the blue link border from the main banner to keep it from looking like an ad
i have been trying to do this for awhile, no luck yet.

Fox said:
and to make the menu bar dark grey and the text there white.
i will toy with this and see if i can find a reasonable match of dark gray and white, but last time i tried that, it got a little "washed out".

Fox said:
I dig the white-on-black text though, it's really easier to read than black on white.
the people who would be using that page agree, they like the dark background too. also, the nature of the game the site supports almost insists that the site is dark like that.
 

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The blue border is easy to remove.

When you make an image link just do this:

instead of
<a href="www.techsupportforum.com"><img src="yourimage.gif" /></a>

do this:

<a href="www.techsupportforum.com"><img src="anarchy2.gif" border=0></a>

That will remove the border.

How'd you get TSF to host the site?
 

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Kiomi said:
holy wow. i've got alot of learning to do.

sixshooter, i want to ask, is the source code for your page encrypted? i looked at it, and for that tiny little page, there is way too much of what i can't even read.

and i see javascript written all over your code, is there a way to avoid java altogether? i find that i get at least 2 dozen java "viruses" per month, and i am to the point where i kind of detest java now, and have disabled javascript in my browser.
Kiomi, its not encrypted, much of what you're seeing there is javascript for the image rollovers. If you want to take a look at the css formatting, most of it can be found on the external style sheet.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
DumberDrummer said:
The blue border is easy to remove.

When you make an image link just do this:

instead of
<a href="www.techsupportforum.com"><img src="yourimage.gif" /></a>

do this:

<a href="www.techsupportforum.com"><img src="anarchy2.gif" border=0></a>

That will remove the border.
thank you, i will do that.

dumberdrummer said:
How'd you get TSF to host the site?
heh.

long story, has a bit to with it being a support site, and some of the mods are involved in it, like jg's page on there. i could explain it in pm's, but it's not public info.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
DumberDrummer said:
please do... I'm very curious. :smile:

(explain it in PMs, that is.)

You've got mail!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
ok, i went a little crazy, and ran through the whole thing and corrected any img border issues.

it seems alright now.

fox, you wanna look again, and tell me what you think?
 

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I stopped by and it's not half bad. I'd recommend that if you stick to frames you set the borders to 0 width.
 

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Yep, looks a lot nicer now without all the blue borders.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
ebackhus said:
I stopped by and it's not half bad. I'd recommend that if you stick to frames you set the borders to 0 width.

the border frames?

i will check on that.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
ok, major editing changes, anyone care to look at it again?

darkages support
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
ok, i'm back.

i have a few issues that i could really use help with. since it's the exact same subject, i'm not going to open a new thread.

now, i NEED to drop the frames. NOW. period. (search engines see an empty index.html so i don't get linked....)

the only thing i need, is to have a navbar on every single page. i want the navbar to appear on the left side as it does now, and it's ok if it scrolls along with the main page.

the actual point, is that i want a single nav page to have to edit. my site will consist of about 100 pages when i'm done, and i don't want to do that many different edits each time i want to change my navbar.

can someone tell me exactly what CSS codes i need to go research to do this? (without javascripting if possible)
 

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Hi Kiomi,

You can do it with server side includes. I've just been through it with another member here over the weekend. You can find the thread here..

http://www.techsupportforum.com/showthread.php?t=70451

Rather than type it all out again, if you want to have a read through the thread first, then I'll help you with any of the specifics for your site that you need help with. It'll give you an understanding of the procedure at least.

Cheers

Liam
 

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Hi Kaomi,

Well I am the slow guy here so let me make my comments as I see them now :sayyes:

The site looks good at the moment - creatively speaking that is. I also seem to like the theme and the colours used in the site. :smile:

Pointers: Try creating a few banners and buttons that you can link to your pages. You can do this by creating them in Photoshop or GIMP. (Photoshop costs money and GIMP is free)

Have a fun and computing day,
Grove :cool:
 
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