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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
My new build:

Mobo - http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=11830BD5552 - $72.0058.
CPU - http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=10360BD4385 - $129.9242.
RAM - http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=11180BD6210 $55.6500
Video - http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=15180BD5288 - $127.1894.
HDD - http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=15080DR2889 - $74.0516.
DVDRW - http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=12640DR6793 - $36.4746.
PSU - http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=11730AC4954 - $64.5540.
Case - http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=12650AC7087 - $42.8240.
LED fan - http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=10370AC3893 - $5.4590.
DVDRs - http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=14950AC6509 - $3.3708.
This PC costs $611.5034.

I'm afraid the PSU is not good enough. Is it, lol? The PSU calculator says 396W. I know you're not supposed to do this, but I put the TDP at 100%, and the capacitor aging at 50% (the maximum you can). When I put the TDP at 85%, and the capacitor aging at 25%, and add 33.34% (more than I'm supposed to), it says 414.8740W.

Am I going overboard on the PSU? I don't plan to upgrade at all, since this PC is pretty much OK for the next 3 years (gaming). Maybe a decent 450W will be ok?

Edit: I added a TV Tuner (Satellite) to the PSU calculator, as I plan on getting one at a later date.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Well, I read the PSU guide on this very website, and I end up with 374W. And that's with adding a TV Tuner (Satellite), which won't be going with this build yet, and adding 5 USB devices (only my mouse and WiFi dongle will actually be USB; I just added 3 more for a joystick, surround sound, and maybe headset).

I also added 100% TDP, 100% peak load, and 50% capacitor aging. If I reversed everything I did here, and did what I was supposed to (plus add 30% capacitor aging, the highest recommended one for 24/7 usage), then added <b>50%</b> to the total, then it would be 375W.

So, in the end, are you 100% dead sure that a 450W FSP Fortron SAGA won't be able to handle this system? Even with the case open all the time???
 

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Death,

No one here is going to talk to into a 450W power supply, generally for that type of system we look around the 500 to 550W mark and we have told you that before. If you really want to run your system on the edge that will be your choice.
Also think for the future, if you start adding anything like a better video card or another drive or two you are going to have to get a new power supply.

Also on a side note

Things like this

This is just sad...
really do not go down well on a free site were we dedicate our time and advice for free.
We try to get to every one and give the best advice based on our combined experience. "Patience" is appreciated sometimes
 

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Discussion Starter #8
You should change your FAQ, then. It's misleading. Also, not to be rude in any way, but GameFAQs is also a free website. And I got a response within 30 seconds (literally), and many more followed that, saying that even a 400W would run it.

Why does the PSU calculator even tell me 250W, if you are saying that I need one that is MORE than 200% of that? Some things aren't adding up right here...
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Oh yeah, this PC won't be upgraded at all. I will be getting a way faster DX10 rig as soon as I get the money, and pass this PC on to my brothers, so I can play with them.
 

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So, in the end, are you 100% dead sure that a 450W FSP Fortron SAGA won't be able to handle this system? Even with the case open all the time???
Death,

I don't think anyone said that it would not run it. No one can be 100% sure that any power supply can run any rig, because there are too many variables.

The advice you are getting is that it would be in your best interest to spend a mere $20 more for a 500 watt power supply or even a 550 watt.

As a personal note (others who have shops will attest to this, just ask them), I have heard your story in my shop for years. That is, there will be no upgrades on this computer. Then, they get a basic size power supply and about three months later hear about this great sale on a great video card and they want to know why it won't run. The ones giving you advice are just trying to protect you in case you have a change of mind which a large majority of users do when something new comes out or they get a few extra bucks to spend on something.

You also need to know, that the closer you buy a power supply to the needs of your rig, the more that power supply has to work. The more it works, the more electricity it requires to run. In addition, the power supply will run much hotter (and your rig in turn) if it has to work hard. The initial cost to expense ratio of a smaller power supply means you spend much more for electricity (over a 3 year period) in the time that you have it than if you purchased a larger supply. So, it is much more cost efficient to just buy a larger one.

The one you have listed on your list presently has only a 70% efficiency rating. That is a pretty darn inefficient supply, so I suggest you look at a power supply that is much more proficient. In addition, it has no active PFC, so that is another consideration you need to look at. There is more to buying a power supply than wattage.

We are not telling you what to buy, that is your choice, but only telling you from our years of experience what might be best for your rig. Most of the techs on this forum have been in business building and selling these rigs to satisified customers for years. Weigh that advice against someone who is a gamer and who uses them more than building them or maybe has built one or two computers. (gee, we build that many in my shop in a couple of hours)

In addition, if you feel that the GameFAQs has the best advice on this issue, then do the research and make a choice. I, personally, just have trouble having anyone who knows what they are doing recommending a supply with 70% efficiency and no active PFC. Sure a 4 cylinder engine will run a bus, but a V-6 will run it better.

We report, you decide. My choice would be an 80%+ efficient 500 or 550 watt power supply with active PFC. Now, you have that choice to make.

Have a nice evening and I hope you make the best choice for your rig.
 

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The psu calculator does not take into account temperature. Most low rated psu's are rated at 25C, good psu's are rated at 40C and the best are rated at 50C. Since the avg internal case temp is around 40C, a psu rated at say 500W at 25C would lose about 30%-40% of its rated output at 40C. This not only leads to instability, but will shorten the lifespan of your psu and could lead to component failure over time....The psu you listed is rated at 25C. This is just one of the reasons why we recommend adding 30% to the value the psu calculator gives you, along with a little head room to add a hdd or two later on without overloading the psu. PSU's are at their best efficiency when they are loaded to no more than 70% of their max rating, loading a low end psu to 70% max is just not wise in our opinion and as such we make what we feel is the best recommendation possible to those that come to the forum for advice.....you are of course always free to do as you choose....We answer questions as fast as we can, we get thousands of responses a day, we do our best to answer everyone in a timely manner, but this is a volunteer forum group and we do have jobs outside this forum...... good luck with your build.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
You obviously didn't read my post. I said that I added 50% to it, and ended up with 375W. If I added 70%, I would end up with 437.5W. I really, really, really don't see why I need a 500W PSU if I don't even HIT 450 with it at 75%. I only will hit the capacity of my PSU if I go to 80%. That is a <bold>50%</bold> increase of what is suggested. I will take a screenshot to prove it.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Here you go. 30% capacitor aging is added, as was suggested by your reliable PSU calculator (and I mean that literally):

http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y214/DeAtH12345/?action=view&current=PSU1.jpg
http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y214/DeAtH12345/?action=view&current=PSU2.jpg

Edit: Oh yeah, it turns out that the results are actually 273W... but, still... I added 60% to it (double of what you suggested), but it doesn't get to 450W. May I remind you that all I will be adding to this PC in the future is a TV Tuner ard (Satellite).

Now, I'm asking this to you as a favor. Please confirm that my results are indeed right and this PSU calculator is accurate, or just remove it from this site.
 

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Will a 450w crank your system over and run it for awhile? Probably, but the questions is how long. A week, a month, a year, two years? As TWA pointed out, the PSU calculator doesn't take into account low quality PSUs rated at 25c. It also doesn't consider the amps needed.

If you opt for a 450w PSU atleast choose a quality unit. (such as the Seasonic made Corsair 450 Owned suggested) Your chances of longivity will be greater, but You are better off with a quality 500w or better. Too much power is always better than just enough.:wink:
 

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running pcie you need a minimum output of 26amps on the 12v+ line,you are unlikely to find this output on a low wattage psu
you have all the information you require posted in this thread
thread closed
 
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