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This is a discussion on Which email-hosts most compatible my preferences? within the Email forums, part of the Tech Support Forum category. Hi, all. I've been worried about Oath's soon-to-be privacy-infringement of my current YahooMail (which was my primary email to which


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Old 07-24-2018, 10:49 PM   #1
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Hi, all. I've been worried about Oath's soon-to-be privacy-infringement of my current YahooMail (which was my primary email to which my incoming "gmails" were forwarded).

I also have been using a 2nd yahoomail address as my primary junkmail address, to which notifications from various message boards came in.

Thus, both my yahoomails are what i mostly used for many years, ever since i became concerned about google's privacy invasions.

So in trying to choose an email-host from among this listing:
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/top-6-...e-gmail-yahoo/
...my questions are:
  • Does the transfer process enable my emails to remain within the same-named Folders which are currently organized in my YahooMail?
  • Is Microsoft Outlook currently an online email service? That's unclear to me, because long-ago it used to be offline, so i never used it.
  • Are the emails in above URL less privacy-invading than OATH-YahooMail plans to be? (long-term prognosis...
  • Do they offer as much Inbox/Sent storage as Yahoomail/gmail?
  • Down the road, would they be easily exportable en-masse? (I gather yahoo's are exportable, due to "POP" which i never did use.
  • What about potential longevity compared to Gmail?
  • Are GMX inbox-ads truly overwhelming & is its clutter way too confusing? Or neck 'n neck with Yahoo?

In a nutshell, i'm seeking a reliable, no-frills email such as YahooMail used to be long-long ago. I like Folders, Forwarding-capability, Exporting-capability, loads of storage-capacity in Inbox/Outbox/Folders. (I never even use Contacts, Notepad, Calendar, POP & so forth).
I certainly don't need interfacing with Facebook/Twitter/other. On the other hand, i wish this seamless-interfacing were applied to healthcare, rather than have to scurry to Doctor Smith for my foot and Dr. Jones for my hips!

P.S. I have protonmail, but have barely been using it because it refuses to load for me most of the time. Perhaps their tight security work best on faster systems? I wonder if Tutanota & Zoho would also be as slow.
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Old 07-25-2018, 08:07 AM   #2
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It was a few years back that Yahoo was hacked and all most all of it's email clients credentials were stolen. So keep that in mind.

Email security is rather vague at best depending on who you talk to and what everyone uses. So is it really secure. That's a big, wide open debate.......!

That said if you're truly worried about your emails being secure....you'll need to pay for that service. The only truly encrypted email service that I know is lavabit. Lavabit was forced to shut down as it wouldn't give up it's encryption service to the Govt. There's a big story on that see here.


Lavabit has been reborn and you can check it out here.......
https://lavabit.com/consumer.html
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Old 07-25-2018, 08:30 AM   #3
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My advice. Don't worry about it. Don't put important data like SS# or Bank Account# in an Email. If you want to take an extra step that might make you feel more secure, download to a client like Thunderbird and then delete from Yahoo.
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:05 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassfisher6522 View Post
The only truly encrypted email service that I know is lavabit.

ProtonMail has a free basic level with paid upgrades. I have one there.

Outlook is an online service, but they nag for paid upgrades also. I have a couple there.

Mail.com is OK, but they've got their own issues of being too fancy in some ways. I have a few accounts there.

Mainly, I use my own domain and webhost. It may not be as 'secure' as some others, but since it's unknown to most everyone other than those I give it to, it's unlikely to draw the attention of serious bad guy threats.
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:57 AM   #5
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I only suggested Lavabit....just because the govt. couldn't crack/hack the encryption of the service, hence the link to the article. So the Govt. gave him (the owner) an ultimatum...either give us what we want of go to jail. So he choose to shut the service down. I think the issue was with the free service vs the paid service....but don't hold me to that.

So it's the only and truly encrypted service that I know and heard of is Lavabit. Now, it has been reborn as only a paid service. Again, I'm not sure how/why a free service vs paid service has any effect on Govt. wanting/taking what it wants.
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Old 07-29-2018, 03:22 AM   #6
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Thanks to all (i think i vaguely recall that yahoomail had been hacked years ago). And that Lavabit story was enlightening. Yes i know how despicable the deep-state gets, and at this time, i'm terrified of the bullies imposing smart meters & 5G along with their health, privacy, & financial risks. Not to mention the water company too. It strikes me as odd, that these companies (Verizon/FCC & utility-companies/PSC) are firing everything at us simultaneously, bearing in mind that Verizon is associated with both the yahoomail bullying, and the 5G bullying.

To Confounded:
Thanks for the feedback! Does Mail.com have problems loading like ProtonMail? As i said that's been my experience, but it may have been due to my non-updated Firefox browser (due to having Win-XP).
By now I'm typing this via PaleMoon browser, which I finally got unzipped.

Re: Mail.com:
  • Would the transfer process enable my emails to remain within the same-named Folders which are currently organized in my YahooMail?
  • Does Mail.com offer as much Inbox/Sent storage as Yahoomail/gmail?
  • Down the road, would emails be easily exportable en-masse?
  • What about potential longevity?
Also, did anyone try GMX, and are its inbox-ads truly overwhelming & is its clutter way too confusing? And how smooth-sailing is its import/export process? Storage capacity & longevity estimate?

Corday:
Are you suggesting that I click the Agree button on my Yahoo Mails and to heck with it, rather than attempting to transfer to even a halfway less invasive email?
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Old 07-29-2018, 04:14 AM   #7
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I've never tried to transfer emails from one service to another. I don't even know if that's possible.

I use SeaMonkey (formerly known as Netscape and Mozilla Suite) as my primary browser. It has a built in email client I use to import and read messages. Accounts that support the IMAP format will pull in the folders and organization as well. The old Opera browser also has/had an effective email client.

As a result of using those clients, I have emails on this computer from over 10 years ago, including some that are no longer available on the original service for whatever reason. I recently needed to look up something for an original purchase date from a few years ago and was able to do it with a simple search across multiple email addresses/accounts.

You might also want to look at Mozilla Thunderbird which is a stand alone client to be installed on your computer. Note, clients are not email services, they just help you use them, however there are some set-up steps involved.
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Old 07-29-2018, 05:24 AM   #8
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If you are talking about email programs I have to laugh as many scramble for free software and then don't understand when free software comes and goes and they lose everything because of non existent support, a product of free software won't help them save their data. I have used Microsoft Outlook for almost 20 years now and have never lost an email I didn't want to as all the others came and went!
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Old 07-30-2018, 09:18 PM   #9
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Rich, i've some followup questions:
  1. Is Outlook webmail free?
  2. How is Outlook-webmail insofar as privacy & intrusions?
  3. Can i sign-up for two separate Outlook-Webmail Addresses, one intended for my real-life-contacts, and the 2nd for my virtual-life-contacts? That's how my YahooMail is setup.
  4. Can Outlook-webmail import my YahooMails, organized by the same folder-names as in my YahooMail? From what i gather, Gmail can import yahoomails due to yahoomail having POP. So can Outlook-webmail do the same - and are they organized by folder?
  5. Are emails exportable from Outlook-webmail?
Thanks!
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Old 07-30-2018, 10:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minni View Post
Rich, i've some followup questions:
  1. Is Outlook webmail free?
  2. How is Outlook-webmail insofar as privacy & intrusions?
  3. Can i sign-up for two separate Outlook-Webmail Addresses, one intended for my real-life-contacts, and the 2nd for my virtual-life-contacts? That's how my YahooMail is setup.
  4. Can Outlook-webmail import my YahooMails, organized by the same folder-names as in my YahooMail? From what i gather, Gmail can import yahoomails due to yahoomail having POP. So can Outlook-webmail do the same - and are they organized by folder?
  5. Are emails exportable from Outlook-webmail?
Thanks!
1. Yes
2. How much does one really know about privacy infringement beyond what the service providers' privacy policies say? How much privacy is good enough?

3. Yes
4. Yes. I particularly remember setting up an Outlook.com account for my mom when her Yahoo account got hacked and the hacker deleted everything from her mailbox! With the help of Yahoo, the emails were recovered from backup and so, I decide to setup a parallel account on Outlook and imported all emails from her Yahoo. She still uses Yahoo, but all her emails also go into the Outlook account of which I'm the sole caretaker. She keeps her Yahoo inbox uncluttered by moving read messages into a Read folder. The import into Outlook kept that folder. You can try it and see if it still does.
5. Exportable to another webmail service or email client? That depends on the service you're importing into or the clients you're exporting from and importing into.
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Old 07-31-2018, 04:08 AM   #11
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Stancestans answers are all spot on for Outlook.com however I said and meant Microsoft Outlook which is part of Microsoft Office, not free and a completely different product.
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Old 07-31-2018, 07:40 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minni View Post
Can i sign-up for two separate Outlook-Webmail Addresses, one intended for my real-life-contacts, and the 2nd for my virtual-life-contacts?
With Outlook, you can set up Aliases. By doing so, you have multiple usernames/email addresses to give out to others, but all messages come in to one master mailbox for viewing.

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

All of the above can be read from the main log-in.

You can also set up completely different email accounts.
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Old 07-31-2018, 10:48 PM   #13
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Stancestans, Rich-M, & Confounded, thanks for all the info!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stancestans View Post
4. Yes. I particularly remember setting up an Outlook.com account for my mom when her Yahoo account got hacked and the hacker deleted everything from her mailbox! With the help of Yahoo, the emails were recovered from backup and so, I decide to setup a parallel account on Outlook and imported all emails from her Yahoo. She still uses Yahoo, but all her emails also go into the Outlook account of which I'm the sole caretaker. She keeps her Yahoo inbox uncluttered by moving read messages into a Read folder. The import into Outlook kept that folder. You can try it and see if it still does.
I've never transferred any of my inbox mail into a read folder, so would my loads of inbox-mail get transferred to the Outlook.com Inbox?
How do all your mom's mails get forwarded to Outlook if there isn't the forwarding feature on Yahoo? Unless that changed & i never knew?

Re: Aliases - i'm not sure i'd know how to transfer my 2nd email-address (which i use for my virtual-contacts) - into an alias account within the primary outlook.com address, nor whether the filtered-folders of the 2nd email address would get organized properly within an alias account.
It sounds complicated.

(it also occurs to me to wonder whether the filters i'd created would also get transferred to outlook.com? Not just the folders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stancestans View Post
5. Exportable to another webmail service or email client? That depends on the service you're importing into or the clients you're exporting from and importing into.
Well, for example, i'd assumed that emails are exportable from YahooMail, due to it having POP. If that assumption is correct, then are emails also exportable via POP from Outlook.com?

Another question: I just came across complaints about outlook.com imposing an agenda on people, so that smacks to me of invasiveness just like gmail & yahoo have become.
And at least two people suggested Mail.ru but it seems to be complicated switching it to English-language.
Is there any cons I should know about Mail.ru, as relates to my above-specified points?
Thanks again!
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Old 08-01-2018, 01:33 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minni View Post
Stancestans, Rich-M, & Confounded, thanks for all the info!
I've never transferred any of my inbox mail into a read folder, so would my loads of inbox-mail get transferred to the Outlook.com Inbox?
Yes.

Quote:
How do all your mom's mails get forwarded to Outlook if there isn't the forwarding feature on Yahoo? Unless that changed & i never knew?
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/mail-for-d...pressions=true

Quote:
Re: Aliases - i'm not sure i'd know how to transfer my 2nd email-address (which i use for my virtual-contacts) - into an alias account within the primary outlook.com address, nor whether the filtered-folders of the 2nd email address would get organized properly within an alias account.
It sounds complicated.
You could always have a second account instead of one account with two aliases.

Quote:
(it also occurs to me to wonder whether the filters i'd created would also get transferred to outlook.com? Not just the folders?
No, just the folders. You will have to create "Inbox and Sweep Rules" in Outlook.com mail options to perform what your filters on Yahoo mail do.

Quote:
Well, for example, i'd assumed that emails are exportable from YahooMail, due to it having POP. If that assumption is correct, then are emails also exportable via POP from Outlook.com?
Yes. You can use POP or IMAP (even better IMHO) with Outlook.com mail and a supported email client of your choice. I wouldn't look twice at an email service that doesn't support those protocols. Who would wanna be restricted to webmail access only!?

Quote:
Another question: I just came across complaints about outlook.com imposing an agenda on people, so that smacks to me of invasiveness just like gmail & yahoo have become.
What agenda?

Quote:
And at least two people suggested Mail.ru but it seems to be complicated switching it to English-language.
Is there any cons I should know about Mail.ru, as relates to my above-specified points?
Thanks again!
Experience is the best teacher. The best way you can learn about a particular email service is to try it out and see for yourself what's up on offer. I'd suggest you do the same. Why? Because opinions vary wildly, which is no wonder why a foreign service that may be completely unusable or inaccessible to you would be mentioned. Would you also want to use a service whose availability in your location could change in a split second because of politics?

If free webmail services are not meeting your privacy needs, you could opt for a commercial domain/email hosting service instead.
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Old 08-01-2018, 09:00 PM   #15
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Stancestans, thanks yet again! I was just nervous in case outlook.com may become as invasive as Gmail & Yahoo.
Re: Yahoo-forwarding:
So sorry - i'd never much experimented with the Yahoo settings in JavaScript version, since i'd mostly disable JS so i could view it the old classic-way. Thus i didn't notice they now offer forwarding.

And yes, i was going to choose the 2 separate accounts vs. aliases, if I'd choose outlook.com.
Do you think the latter is a sensible choice? Is it more popular - or less popular - than MS-outlook?

The inbox/sweep rules seem like an awkward learning curve.

Who would wanna be restricted to webmail access only!?
Uh..that would be me since i never did use email any other way, except long ago Juno in the 90s, but my memory of that is hazy. I guess i can philosophize that i'm losing my real-life memory anyway, bit-by-bit, so if i develop dementia, what diff. does it make if so many of my webmails have been lost over the years? The vast majority were worth zilch anyway, because most contactees never responded to painstaking questions which often took hours to compose, if they responded at all.

The outlook.com agenda they were referring to was politics-related, and I get your point, about risking international email.

I'm curious - when people use email clients such as Thunderbird, where are their voluminous emails stored? On their HDD? I only have two USB-pens, each 4gb, both of which have identical files on them.
Also, when using Thunderbird, do people import emails from their various webmail accounts into the inbox of Thunderbird? Is that how it works?
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Old 08-02-2018, 01:51 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minni View Post
i was going to choose the 2 separate accounts vs. aliases, if I'd choose outlook.com.
Do you think the latter is a sensible choice?
Yes, aliases are a sensible choice. I find aliases to be useful for receiving emails that I would less likely reply to, for example, newsletter subscriptions. Sometimes you are required to provide an email address before you can access a particular resource online, or before you can post a comment on discussion boards and you do not wish to give out your main email address. What would be the sensible thing to do? Maintain a secondary account or use an alias(es) within your main account?

If you choose to sign up for a new email account for such purposes, you would have to separately sign into both your main account and the secondary account to be able to access their mailboxes. On the other hand, if you used aliases, you would only need to maintain and access just one email account. With a little organization, say a folder for emails sent to an alias and a filter/rule for sorting them into that folder, you get to keep your mailbox uncluttered despite having all kinds of emails coming into that one account.

Quote:
Is it more popular - or less popular - than MS-outlook?
Is Outlook.com (webmail service by Microsoft) more or less popular than Microsoft Outlook (email client that is part of the Microsoft Office suite)?
They are not the same thing. Outlook.com is a webmail service just like Yahoo Mail, Gmail (Google Mail), Mail.Ru, Mail.com, AOL Mail etc, while Microsoft Outlook, sometimes simply referred to Outlook (2007, 2010, 2013, 2016... depending on the version of Microsoft Office suite that it's part of), is an email client (application program) that you install on your computer and use to send/receive emails, just like Thunderbird, the old and antiquated Outlook Express, Windows Live Mail, Mail (built into Windows 10), Mailbird, Claws Mail, eM Client, etc.

Quote:
The inbox/sweep rules seem like an awkward learning curve.
They are not any different from the filters you have on Yahoo Mail.

Quote:
I'm curious - when people use email clients such as Thunderbird, where are their voluminous emails stored? On their HDD? I only have two USB-pens, each 4gb, both of which have identical files on them.
Also, when using Thunderbird, do people import emails from their various webmail accounts into the inbox of Thunderbird? Is that how it works?
Yes, they download the emails and store them on local storage (HDD) and yes, that's how Thunderbird and similar clients work. They retrieve/download emails from your email account(s) and store them locally. Downloaded emails are accessible even if you're not connected to the internet, since they are now locally stored on your computer's storage.
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Old 08-02-2018, 05:43 AM   #17
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When using a client like TBird, it's important to have an orderly filing system so you can find things easily. I've seen complete messes. HD space is not a current problem as the space is immense. My TBird is immaculate since everything except "Saved" is deleted after 3 months (from the already deleted file and Sent). My wife has an "unusual" system.
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Old 08-05-2018, 11:51 PM   #18
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I'll answer Corday first, since it's shorter: I suppose i'm sorta like your wife!

Stancestans:

Thanks again! See, the reason I'd set up two separate accounts vs. aliases, was to keep my Real-Life separate from Virtual-Life.

But hey, i now realize that free-webmail is zero-guarantee of privacy anyway, so assume i'd choose the alias route, how would i set up outlook.com to import my:
RealLife-Inbox to >> Outlook-RealLife-Inbox
RealLife-Outbox to >> Outlook-RealLife-Outbox
VirtualLife-Inbox to >> Outlook-VirtualLife-Inbox
VirtualLife-Outbox to >> Outlook-VirtualLife-Outbox

...aside from my other folders?

Like, what do i do first, then next step, then next step & so on?

......oh no, i'd forgotten to ask you a vital preliminary question to begin with! I.E. does outlook.com impose verification via real-life phone number, as has happened widely?

Some final points in response to yours:
  • oops: Instead of asking if the webmail is more popular than the client, I should have phrased it: "Do most people use webmail with (or without) clients?
  • I never owned much external storage. (Even as of now, i have one 4gb USB-stick, and another 16gb USB-stick.) And that's also why i'd long ago opted for webmail, due to finding the prospect of locally storing tons of emails daunting. What type of external storage do most people use now, anyway? For the record, I've too much going on right now, so i don't think i'll get to that soon, if ever. I've a wired system anyway, and assume most people have external-storage compatible with their wireless setups.
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Old 08-06-2018, 04:41 AM   #19
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Quote:
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Stancestans:

Thanks again! See, the reason I'd set up two separate accounts vs. aliases, was to keep my Real-Life separate from Virtual-Life.
I get that. Just so we are clear, both are viable and sensible options and it all eventually boils down to your preference. Whichever choice you make is fine, there is no right or wrong. Maintaining one account with two aliases will still keep your "real-life" emails separate from "virtual-life" emails, as long as they are organized properly, i.e, a folder for your virtual-life emails and a rule/filter for sorting them into that folder, while your real-life emails get delivered into the default Inbox folder. Using aliases in one account does not in any way compromise the separation of your virtual and real life emails. It is you, the user of the email service, who would mix things up if not keen, even if you maintain two separate accounts.

This "virtual" and "real" separation is just a perception of how you'd like things to be, but in reality, this separation is non-existent to whoever you're giving your email address to (or whoever is "spying" on you). Let's say, for example, you shared an email address with a member you've befriended here. How would they tell if the email address you gave them is your "virtual" or "real" contact? How would they tell if the address is a secondary alias of your "main" account or a separate account altogether? They wouldn't be able to tell and they wouldn't really care how you're organizing the messages they sent you. As far as they are concerned, the email address is valid and works and you're reachable through it.

Quote:
But hey, i now realize that free-webmail is zero-guarantee of privacy anyway, so assume i'd choose the alias route, how would i set up outlook.com to import my:
RealLife-Inbox to >> Outlook-RealLife-Inbox
RealLife-Outbox to >> Outlook-RealLife-Outbox
VirtualLife-Inbox to >> Outlook-VirtualLife-Inbox
VirtualLife-Outbox to >> Outlook-VirtualLife-Outbox

...aside from my other folders?

Like, what do i do first, then next step, then next step & so on?
If you choose the alias route, i.e, both your real-life and virtual-life addresses are aliases of one Outlook.com (Microsoft) account, and you would like to use Microsoft Outlook as your desktop email client, all you would need to do is configure MS Outlook to connect to that one Outlook.com account. Emails sent to both your real-life and virtual-life addresses (aliases) will all be delivered to the one Outlook.com account. In MS Outlook or any other email client, you'll have just one account configured and listed. On the other hand, if you go with two separate accounts route, you will have to configure MS Outlook twice, once for each account, and you'll have two accounts listed. I hope the differences are becoming clearer now.

Quote:
......oh no, i'd forgotten to ask you a vital preliminary question to begin with! I.E. does outlook.com impose verification via real-life phone number, as has happened widely?
Impose??? No! Outlook.com (Microsoft account) does support two-step verification via real-life phone number IF you turn it ON (you should anyway). Your internet accounts should be as secure as possible, no matter what you're using them for ("real" or "virtual"). If anything, the accounts you use for your virtual life should be highly secure considering you're using them on a public domain (internet). You make it seem like two-step verification via a phone number that actually belongs to you is a bad thing, which makes me wonder what your motive is with the so called "virtual-life" account. One might even think you're up to no good. It's like you're worried about your phone number getting associated with your email account, even if it's just for further securing that account and not for display in your public profile.

Quote:
Some final points in response to yours:
  • oops: Instead of asking if the webmail is more popular than the client, I should have phrased it: "Do most people use webmail with (or without) clients?
  • Does it really matter which method is used mostly? Whichever method of access is more or less popular shouldn't form your decision. It all comes down to how you prefer it. Here are the only statistics I could find https://www.adestra.com/resources/top-10-email-clients/

    Before I owned a personal computer, and later on a smartphone, the only other way of accessing email was via a web browser in a cyber cafe! In a cyber cafe environment, webmail was the only practical way. Back then Yahoo was the shizzle, followed by Hotmail! My second Nokia feature phone did have gprs (edge) internet connectivity and had an email client that worked wonderfully with my Yahoo account! While most people still flocked into cyber cafes at least once in two days just to check their emails and to chat on Yahoo Messenger..., my tiny phone sufficed just fine. It's not as if they didn't have internet-enabled phones with email and im clients, some of them just din't know that they could have easy and quick access to their mailboxes right from their mobiles. Don't forget that going to a cyber cafe meant commuting to town for that very valuable service! How things have changed! Some only needed enlightenment, others simply preferred reading their emails on the larger computer screens. When I owned my first personal computer in college and could use my phone as a usb (dial-up) internet modem, I started using a desktop email client instead of a browser to access my mailbox, and I've never looked back since. Of course there are occasions that I need to access the web interface for routine account management and organization, but not for regular, everyday access. I find desktop email clients to be faster than webmail access, especially with Yahoo Mail! I also find it to be an unnecessary hassle logging into webmail vs simply restoring the minimized window of a desktop client that is always synchronizing in the background and already has the the most recent email waiting to be read, or manually synchronizing them with a single click. To this day, there is an odd friend who would rather log into their webmail account via a browser on their smartphone while they could simply configure the email client that is already installed on their phone out-of-box!

    Quote:
  • I never owned much external storage. (Even as of now, i have one 4gb USB-stick, and another 16gb USB-stick.) And that's also why i'd long ago opted for webmail, due to finding the prospect of locally storing tons of emails daunting. What type of external storage do most people use now, anyway? For the record, I've too much going on right now, so i don't think i'll get to that soon, if ever. I've a wired system anyway, and assume most people have external-storage compatible with their wireless setups.
You don't need external storage for use with a desktop email client. Your computer already has massive internal storage, plus, in MS Outlook, you don't have to keep ALL of your emails downloaded and stored on local disk, you can have it download headers only (email metadata) and only download the rest of the message content (e.g images and attachments) when you've opened it. This is especially useful with slow connections and limited disk space. Flash disks are way more expensive than hard disk drives (internal or external) in terms of capacity per price, and are also less reliable (high failure rates) than hard disk drives. Let's say you have 3000 emails in your inbox, dating back 5 years, and half of those have 50MB attachments (highly unlikely), then you'd need ~73GB storage space to store those attachments on your computer. If we double the number of emails, you'd still only need ~146GB storage space. Going even higher, the storage requirements are still no match for what hard disk capacities of today have to offer. Did you somehow get the impression that you need external storage for use with a desktop email client?
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Old 08-06-2018, 05:37 AM   #20
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I use the client for my "real" mail account, although I don't download before looking at it via the web-mail. I use web-mail for an account that is much more likely to attract spam or when I don't want to give the other one out for whatever the reason.
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