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newbie curious about overclocking and new sockets

This is a discussion on newbie curious about overclocking and new sockets within the Motherboards, Bios|UEFI & CPU forums, part of the Tech Support Forum category. i think overclocking is the way to go these days and it is not really i want to overclock, i


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Old 06-30-2006, 02:56 PM   #1
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i think overclocking is the way to go these days and it is not really i want to overclock, i just want to learn the principle behind just to be informed. i know that you have to be an enthusiast to overclock and i know that a lot of people do this to squeeze more from their system and the thing is once you do this it will void your warranty, isn't it? cpu, ram and vid card settings are tweaked in the bios right? from the fsb, multiplier, voltage, etc. and benchmarking but what if you have a system that is good:

windows xp
athlon (s939) 3500+ or dual core
nvidia 7600gt
2 x 512mb geil value rams (with heat spreaders)
epox npasomething3 ultra
enermax 465 psu

do you still need to overclock your pc? i think this is very good enough for games plus of course you need like high performance fans to cool it down. why still overclock when it tends to void warranty plus shorten the components life because of temps and voltage issues?

now, from an overclocker's point of view, i want to overclock my pc (but i won't because i dont want to void my warranty), how will you do it if you have the following specs:

amd s754 sempron 2600+
msi k8ngm-v nforce 6100 ( no overcloking options here i think)
gainward 6600 256mb
kingston 512 mb

theoretically, will you use software? change ram timings, voltage, etc.?
i am just curious because a lot of people overclock even if they have a good system and i think its because of the resources intensive games that are out like quake 4. or they are just obssessed with benchmarks? and if for example, i need to overclock, what are the steps that i have to take? i think people can't seem to get enough these days.
this is a a question from a newbie who just wants to learn the principles of overclocking from changing the settings in the bios or use a software to overclock if there are any. thanks.:shy: :shy:

finally, i read that the am2 socket is already (i think this is cheaper) out is this better than the socket 939 because it uses ddr2?
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Old 06-30-2006, 05:53 PM   #2
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First off AM-2 is not necessarily better becuase it uses DDR-2 DDR-2 memory is faster but due to it's double latencies the speed improvement for the most part is negated by its substanial latencies.

The REAL reason for AM-2 is EXACTLY as you have just stated. Most PC buyers think DDR-2 must be faster because the spec numbers say so and its newer ! AMD made a decision when DDR-2 first became popular not to design CPU's for DDR-2 systems. AMD felt that DDR-2 was not all that is was hyped up to be and therefore paid it little mind. However they began to notice this marketing and engineering decision left Intel alone in the DDR-2 spec world; a decision they later came to regret. Intel being an advertising wizard began hyping the benfits of DDR-2 based systems. AMD had to play catch up and in a hurry at that, thus the release of AM-2 and to the benefit of those buying it; to slow down Intels progress in sales AMD is selling AM-2 processors at 939 prices or lower !!

Now on to overclocking:

Overclocking is primarily the hobby of extreme gamers and very computer committed enthusiast builders. Overclocking back in the Pentium days and even Pentium-2 days was a real big winner; you could get a huge boost from system perfromance back in those days because the system bottleneck WAS at the processor. Now days the data movement bottleneck is no longer at the processor but lies more at the hands of the 32bit bus. This will soon be fully addressed with the release of 64bit systems with 64bit software like Vista, however we will have to wait for 64bit software that is designed to make efficient use of the 64bit bus not just compatibility.

Now days the design of componets have been tweaked sooooooo tightly system overclocking is really a fad of past years. This statement will draw some rebuke from die hard overclocking fans; but I have heard it all before an they still have not convinced me or show me any substaniated proof of real noticible improvements gained from overclocking. The biggest problem Overclockers face now with modern components is heat, and alot of it!!

Todays modern components produce insane heat, becuase they have been engineered to squeeze every last drop of perfromance out of them; they are in essence already overclocked!

To begin the overclocking endeavor takes a substanial additional investment, you will need a real kick a$$ power supply to achieve stable voltage manipulations, you will need high perfromance ram capable of sustaining very tight ram timings (check the prices on crucial ballastix and OCZ high perfromance memory) then you will need added cooling, most popular is water cooling due to its price and availability. Nitrogen cooling is the king of course but its difficult to set-up and insanely expensive.

Common overclocking steps are 5%, 10%, 20% and 30% 5% is very common and not to difficult to achieve with good ram, hot shot power supply and excellent air flow that can be achieved with case fans, the same is true with 10% stepping although it can be a tad tougher and now your getting into the mud.

20% is a core to achieve, now your into the land of perfection. To maintain a 20% overclock you will probally have to try several diff brands of high performance memory, not all ram sticks overclock well; not even the high perfromance models, not all motherboards will overclock well, I have seen motherboards that are the same exact models and one will achieve and hold 20% and the other wont !

For 20% overclocking you will need watercooling to maintain and run 20% continously especially when gaming. I have been told by extreme gamers that overclocking improves frame rates within gmaing enough to justify all this hassle, expense and RISK.

Its really a matter of preference, overclocking requires you to boost the voltage going to the CPU and ram beyond the manufacturer's stated spec. Some components are actually built to better specs right at the factory and can take a certain amount of this pushing. Some can not, the ones that can not often wind up burnt.

I have several friends that are avid gamers that have abandoned overclocking in favor of chasing better components when they become avaialble.

Its really a matter of personal preference whether or not to overclock, some motherboards are much better at overclockign than others. You will need to do alot of research prior to jumping in, there are a heap of excellent over clocking forums to research and chat with overclocking guru's. One thing is for sure about die hard overclockers, they demand all that a system will produice and they are willing to spend whatever it takes to achieve very modest gains. After all when you fry a $400.00 video card you damn well better be committed to what you are doing

I am sure we will get some other repsonse to the contrary.

goodluck and enjoy your research and adventure. Keep a sharp nose for that lovely burning smell; its your wallet on fire ROFL
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Old 06-30-2006, 06:23 PM   #3
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a 20% overclock is a piece of cake... my cpu is on a 30% oc on stock volts on everything. my load temps are in the low 40s on the stock cooler. i bought an aftermarket air cooler and still havent found out why i need it... boosting the voltage, which nets me another paltry 100mhz, to 1.5 only has the temps hit high 40s, hardly a worrisome temp, especially considering its 80+ outside and i have no ac on... if you get a dual core am2, overclocking will be a breeze. no water cooling is really neccessary for computers these days. and as for what advantages oc'ing nets, its the difference between 30 and 45fps in oblivion between a a64 3000 and an fx60. https://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2747&p=3
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Old 06-30-2006, 06:39 PM   #4
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You lost me >>>>> again >>>> look at a AMD Athalon 3500+ which is 2.20 ghz

now put a 10% overclock on that which adds 220mhz or equal to

AMD 3800+ Athalon 2.40 GHZ >>>> that give you ONE additional fram rate x 3 equals = 3 frame rates ?

nobody is going to notice 3 frame rates



Comparing an Athalon 3000 to an FX-60 might be a bit misleading


please explain
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Old 06-30-2006, 07:05 PM   #5
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ok, a 3000 might not be too relevant, but you can definately compare a x2 3800 to a fx60 since theyre dual cores, and its very reasonable that any x2 3800 will hit at least 2.6, so thats a fair comparison. the difference is still 7 fps, which is not just a low resolution and low details, but at 1280*1024 with hdr on in the most hardware demanding game out on the market. it could mean the difference between a playable and unplayable framerate. where are you getting that all you can net is a 10% oc on a chip? like i said, ive gotten over 30% on a stock cooler.
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Old 06-30-2006, 07:23 PM   #6
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I didnt say all you can get is 10% i was using 10% as an example to show the guy posting = easy math
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Old 06-30-2006, 09:14 PM   #7
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@all
which is better the socket 939 or am2? there are a lot of people aroun who are slling mad their 939 mobos in place of am2 and i notice that 939s price have dropped significantly and i know this is because amd is following the lead of intel, isn't it? with futureproofing put aside, which one will you get the am2 or 939?

about overclocking:
is it really worth it to push the limit to squeeze a little bit more from components to enjoy better frame rates? who does overclocking other than gamers? lastly, can you recommend a website where i can learn the principles of overcloking like fsb, ram timings, bios tweaking, multiplier, etc. since a lot of people are overclocking with the risks involved, is it really worth it. for example:

athlon64 3500+
SOCKET : Socket 939
FREQUENCY : 2200 MHz
FSB / HT Bus Freq : 800 MHz / 2.0 GTS
L1 Data: 64kb
L2 Code: 64kb
L2 CACHE : 512 KB

this is fairly decent enough, isn't it? much more are the dual cores. isn't true that if you dont have suitable components for overclocking your system will be unstable but is better frame rates justifiable to make your pc fry or void the warranty?
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Old 07-01-2006, 04:31 AM   #8
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I personally like scouting for the deals, and I even hawk ebay looking for them. Right now the deal is getting great mobo's and socket 939 processors very reasonable as gamers are flocking to the new release hoping for more performance.

You system should be fine for gaming. check out ebay with hopes of getting a 3800+ san deigo core cheap?

overclocking is a matter of personal choice and risk assessment.

https://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/

enjoy
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Old 07-01-2006, 08:24 AM   #9
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I just bought a socket 939 board. Now I need a new CPU and video card. If I were to go with AM2 I'd need a new board, video AND new RAM. I don't care about being bleeding edge so not going for the latest doesn't bother me. I waited a full year before going from my Athlon XP 2400+ to my current system.

This is what my new rig will have when finished...

MSI K8N Diamond Plus (nForce4 SLI-16x)
1GB PC3200 dual channel (will go up to 2GB later)
XFX GeForce 7900GT
SoundBlaster Audigy SE (onboard audio)
80, 120, 160GB HDDs
Windows XP Pro SP2
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Old 07-01-2006, 08:41 AM   #10
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@ebackhus

what if you did not get your board first before the launch of am2? will you get it for your system? or you find that there are limited mobos (that you like)for it at the moment? nice specs, do you overclock too?
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Old 07-01-2006, 10:28 AM   #11
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The Bible of Overclocking
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