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Installed new PSU, computer died and will not start

This is a discussion on Installed new PSU, computer died and will not start within the Motherboards, Bios|UEFI & CPU forums, part of the Tech Support Forum category. Over the last couple of months, my computer has rebooted itself during when the load has been high (e.g. 3D


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Old 09-09-2010, 11:14 AM   #1
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Over the last couple of months, my computer has rebooted itself during when the load has been high (e.g. 3D gaming). As I thought this was a problem with the graphics card (an 8800 GTS), I switched it for a ATI HD 5830 card. However, the problem still occured. I then decided to replace my CoolerMaster Extreme 500W power supply with a Corsair TX650. The only thing I did different in connecting the PSU to the motherboard, was that I connected an 8-pin EPS 12V cable (the old PSU only used an 4-pin connector).

All was well when I booted up the computer, and everything worked like it was supposed to. I played Dragon Age for about 2 hours, when the computer shut itself down. I am now unable to get it up and running again. There is absolutely nothing coming up on screen.

When I turn the computer on, the following works:
-LEDs in the front panel light up,
-The fans (CPU, graphics card, as well as those in the case) start spinning.

The following does not work:
-Everything else, in particular, the DVD-drive and the hard drive do not seem to receive any power. The DVD-drive is unresponsive when I try to open it, the HDD stays completely silent.

What I have tried so far:
-Replacing the graphics card with one that I know works properly. I still get no image on screen
-I have reconnected the old PSU to the motherboard, nothing changes.

This has all led me to believe that there is either something wrong with my motherboard (maybe a fuse blown somehow?) or my CPU. No sound is made when I turn the computer on, so I do not think that it is RAM-related.

I am also confused as to whether or not this is related to my former problems with automatic reboots during load.

My specs
Motherboard: GIGABYTE X38-DS4
CPU: INTEL Core 2 Duo E8400
GPU: Sapphire ATI Radeon HD5830 1GB

I would appreciate any ideas or input as to what the problem might be all about. Thank you!
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Old 09-09-2010, 12:00 PM   #2
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sounds like that extreme power has ended the life of your motherboard / how old is the mobo; you might be able to RMA the board back to giga for a replacement board ?
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:34 PM   #3
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Thank you for the reply! If it is possible for a PSU to actually fry a motherboard through wattage alone, then it all makes sense.

The motherboard is an ATX 2.01 and around 3 years old I believe so no RMA for me. I will head out tomorrow to get a new motherboard and a CPU upgrade then.
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:45 PM   #4
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A low quality psu will do that, not only will they over volt the motherboard but also ram, hdd, cd/dvd drives, video cards. That is why they recomend corsair or seasonic psu's for the over volt protection, so that doesn't happen when the psu is pushed by the video card.
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Old 09-09-2010, 02:05 PM   #5
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When you get the new Mobo/CPU do a bench test before installing in the case.
Bench Test
Set the motherboard on a non conductive surface. The motherboard box is perfect for this. DO NOT PLACE THE MOTHERBOARD ON THE STATIC BAG! It can actually conduct electricity!
Install the CPU and heat sink.
Install 1 stick of RAM.
Install the video card and attach the power supply connection(s) to the card if your card needs it.
Connect the monitor to the video card.
Connect the power supply to the motherboard with both the 24pin main ATX Power connection and the separate 4 or 8 pin power connection.
Connect power to the power supply.
Do NOT connect ANYTHING else. Make sure you have the power connector on the CPU fan connected.
Use a small screwdriver to momentarily short the power switch connector on the motherboard. Consult your motherboard manual to find which two pins connect to your case's power switch. Then touch both pins with a screwdriver to complete the circuit and boot the system.

If all is well, it should power up and you should get a display. Then assemble the parts into the case and try again. If the system now fails to boot, you have a short in the case and need to recheck your motherboard standoffs.

If the system does not boot after this process, then you most likely have a faulty component. You'll need to swap parts, start with the power supply, until you determine what is defective.



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Old 09-09-2010, 04:52 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dblanchard1278 View Post
A low quality psu will do that, not only will they over volt the motherboard but also ram, hdd, cd/dvd drives, video cards. That is why they recomend corsair or seasonic psu's for the over volt protection, so that doesn't happen when the psu is pushed by the video card.
While I think my first CoolerMaster PSU was to blame for instability earlier, it was my new Corsair 650 W which killed off the motherboard completely while being under fairly heavy load. Could this mean that both the old CoolerMaster and my new Corsair are faulty?

@Tyree: Thanks a lot for your input! I'm fairly inexperienced when it comes to hardware, so this is very valuable!
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Old 09-09-2010, 05:14 PM   #7
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I highly doubt the corsair killed the motherboard; more likely that extreme power had the motherboard sick
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Old 09-09-2010, 06:19 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linderman View Post
I highly doubt the corsair killed the motherboard; more likely that extreme power had the motherboard sick
I second that opinion, the old psu is the one to blame for killing the board. The old psu did the damage and time and use finnished it off.
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Old 09-10-2010, 07:11 AM   #9
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agreed with the above although he said it was 500w running the 5830 and the rest of his equipment. Modern PCIe systems with modern PCIe graphics cards should run on a minimum of 550w. This is the reason most people are saying the first PSU has most likely killed the motherboard and I tend to agree with that hypothesis.

Although like I said I do agree that Motherboards can fail however good the psu is, but underpowering a system is a likely candidate for knacking a mobo.
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Old 09-10-2010, 01:08 PM   #10
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especially when you factor in the failure rating of the Coolermaster Extreme Power
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Old 09-11-2010, 07:14 AM   #11
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Thanks for all your help guys! I went out, got a new motherboard, new CPU and new RAM, but I still couldn't get anything working. Doing a bench test, I found out that my Corsair was the faulty component. Got a new Corsair TX650 today, and everything seems to be working well.
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Old 09-11-2010, 07:57 AM   #12
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your corsair might still have some warranty left on it. I would see if you could RMA it and have a second for a spare
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Old 09-11-2010, 11:40 AM   #13
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My new Corsair is the replacement I got from the store. I appreciate the concern, though.
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Old 09-11-2010, 08:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pop_tart View Post
I wonder if the mods and regular forum "experts" will learn something from this thread after the poster who had the audacity to express a non mod approved opinion on power supplies was banned..... yet again.

Common sense should have shown in this case the likelihood of the old PSU having caused the problem weren't much higher than it would have been even if the old one had been a mod-approved model. I say "should have", because it seems the advice here is still unnaturally skewed towards blaming the PSU by the mods and forum "experts" who won't remove their PSU blinkers to learn something about fault finding PC problems.

Had the OP not already bought a mod-approved, overpowered replacement PSU, this would have been yet another thread where the OP would have been advised to replace their PSU without the PSU being the problem.

Here's a question for the mods and forum "experts". Instead of deleting this post and pretending your advice wasn't completely wrong yet again, why not reply with statistics regarding the actual failure rate of generic power supplies to show replacing them as one of the first steps of fault finding is valid advice? I'd suspect though that none of the PSU experts here would have a single statistic on failure rates and are handing out advice based on rhetoric, which thanks to the internet, has been passed from one forum pseudo-expert to another.

I will make my response short and sweet:
1. The experts try to get the user to get a stable, well known, functioning model so that further problem solving can eliminate the possibility of power failure as a viable option.

2. I often disagree with the generalizations made about PSU models on this forum, but I see no reason to start arguements when a user is LOOKING FOR HELP, NOT A TURF WAR.
I PERSONALLY run a Coolermaster "500W" just fine for my setup. And in theory I run a more powerful card, with larger power demands.
However, I read up about all the electrical components used by the OEM to make this PSU before I bought it. I know what it can and cannot do. However I cannot WANTONLY recommend Coolermaster PSU's, because lets face it: Not every model's OEM uses the better component parts.

3. I do not believe certain parts fail more than others if they are industry approved. It really comes down to environmental factors and pure chance. However, if we simply let users stick with lesser quality parts, we are assisting in the failure rate of whole systems, not just individual power units.
I think if a user sources failure rates, a link should be provided, but it should only be provided if the user questions the suggestions on a technical basis.

- My thoughts.
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Old 09-12-2010, 06:20 AM   #15
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Why not advise the user to get to a stable, well known, functioning model by replacing the MB so that further problem solving can eliminate the possibility of MB failure as a viable option? It'd be just as logical, and if as I suspect.... motherboards have a higher failure rate than power supplies, it'd be more practical.

>>
Replacing the motherboard would exacerbate the issue no? For a person with limited PC skills, this is a much more daunting task than removing a power unit. Again, this assumes that the issue can be properly diagnosed as being a motherboard issue. Usually the advice given is to BENCH the system, so we single out components. This is not an infallible system, but its pretty good advice.

I'd disagree with your claim however. I've read enough threads to realise replacing the PSU is regularly offered as the solution to the problem, not to eliminate the possibility of it being the problem, and not too often does replacing the PSU turn out to be the solution. In fact many times when the PSU is replaced and the problem persists it's suggested that the new PSU must also be faulty if it's not on the mod-approved over-powered PSU short list. You've got to admire that kind of persistence, I guess.

>>
Sometimes the logic fails at the cost of the user. Denying this is pointless, but our goal is to help the users. I guess we run a utilitarian ship? MOST get something working out of the advice.

I regularly post in several other computer forums and I can only conclude there must be some statistical anomaly at play, where some strange series of circumstance leads the majority of PC users with failing power supplies to seek advice in this forum while the majority of those seeking help for non-PSU related issues post elsewhere.

>> I cannot concur with or refute this point, but it did make me smile :)


I'm not out to start an argument, just offer my opinion. If I was seeking help I'd welcome a variety of opinion.

>> I am able to get a word in usually, assuming its not some crazy offbeat notion with no backup.

Not that there's much chance of arguments starting. I once read advice offered to a poster which stated they should be running at least a 600w PSU with a particular video card. When I replied and pointed out that I'd been running the same card in a more power hungry PC on a 400w PSU for two years, I could almost visualise the mods falling over each other to remove my post.... which they did.

>> "SHOULD" is a good transliteration for: IF I WAS HERE, in the same room, and you asked my advice, I would grab your hand and drag you to the closest PC shop and strongly advise you to purchase this model for system stability and multiple forthcoming pc builds. I amconfused as to why your post was removed if you simply stated that, yes, it works for some people, but may not work for all.


I'll confess I don't quite understand the point you're trying to make there.

>> If part X is used in 3 models of PSU, say a Corsair, OCZ, and some lesser known brand, it is industry approved for purpose Y. It's failure rate is therefore assumed to be low enough to warrant inclusion in "a better unit". A collection of parts like part X, therefore, make up the entirety of a better unit. If the same parts are NOT used in the lower quality units, and we KNOW IT, then the recommendations here serve to alleviate the chances of the power unit's failure which would cause full out system failure for the user.

"It really comes down to environmental factors and pure chance." If an approved unit dies, it is often not due to anything the parts did statistically, but rather a bad manufacturing process, environmental concerns, misuse etc. A lower quality unit suffers from undesireable OEM part selection.



Would it be safe to assume then, that you can provide a link to verify the failure rates of whole systems you referred to?

>> I do not have a way of gathering data from this forum that would output a bar graph/line graph. But if a PSU causes instability, or fries a motherboard/spu/component, then it is a very real statistic. Even improper functioning is the result of poorly chosen units. So statistically, every case of a malfunctioning PSU, whether good or bad is relevant here, but no, I have no way to find the stats on this forum. Maybe online?

Personally I think you're simply missing the fact that the mods here aren't mature enough to allow anyone to disagree with them. I once corrected advice given by a forum expert, a mod came along and edited his post so it no longer needed correcting and then removed mine so it looked like he'd never been wrong. After posting my opinion as to the degree to which it was a childish thing to do, I was banned for trolling. It didn't even matter that my idea as to the cause of the problem turned out to be the correct one.

>>
Personal involvement in any relationship can cause emotional distress :P But I have no opinion to offer on this particular issue. Most mods here are serious about thier advice, some may not be? And time will tell if they stay mods etc.
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Old 09-12-2010, 08:03 AM   #16
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@ "poptart"

google is your friend!
your replie retoric reminds me of the childhood story of the" lion with a thorn in his paw" he needed help but fought every step of the way during the process

you wont have to research very hard at all to learn the PSU is "single" most killing component of a PC

here is but one which took me a whole whopping 5 secs to research .....but then again I imagine PC Stats is just another blow hard like us.

quote:

The Power Supply (PSU)

Three little words, but loaded with such destructive potential. Faulty power supplies are by far and away the most common source of computer mortality. In our reader survey, power issues accounted for over 30% of all dead-PC tales, and after working in a computer store for a few years I'm surprised it wasn't actually higher. We saw system after system come into the store for service with the immortal words "it just won't turn on" or "smoke came out of the back... Will it be ok?"

Here's a typical tale of bright lights, big balls of smoke;

"...The customer came in saying that the PC wouldn't start at all. Of course I suspected the PSU, but had to test it anyway. Plugged in the unit and pushed the power button and was illuminated by a flash of light. The PSU had indeed failed, and now had also blown a MOSFET on the system board and scorched the 512mb stick of PC3200 RAM..."

That the power supply is the most dangerous of PC components should come as no surprise. After all, its responsibility is to filter the massive wall voltage into the bite-sized 12V, 5V and 3.3V DC allocations that modern PCs need.



EDIT >>>>> but yet again; I will ask you, what are the savings when buying a cheaper & smaller PSU when the corsair 750 watt is $109.00 ? what does a worthy 500 watt cost ? how much did you save ? what are the future ramifications of those savings? do both units have a 5 year warranty?

we wont even begin on the editors awards the Corsair 650 & 750 have won, but then again I am most certain your 500 watt model has those too ?
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Old 09-12-2010, 08:50 AM   #17
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Well said
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Old 09-12-2010, 12:05 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pop_tarts View Post
I forgot to ask.....
Where in your tale of PSU woe were the statistics showing the failure rate of generic PSUs compared to the mod-approved models?




you love attention dont you




where are YOUR stastics to prove the opposite ?

you offer nothing of value to the Original Poster other than a dose of contrary
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Old 09-12-2010, 12:06 PM   #19
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why do you think nvidia spent all the time and money to develop this

https://www.slizone.com/object/slizone_build_psu.html

do you see any of your pet junkers in there ?
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Old 09-12-2010, 12:17 PM   #20
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Ok so as linderman said, what is the advantage to buying a cheap psu? For starters the psu is not rated properly, even though it says 500 watts doesn't mean you're getting 500 watts. The cheaper psu makers can get away with this because they don't list theirs as a certin spec like name brands like seasonic and corsair. So the 500 watt bargin will turn out to be like 450 watts, fine enough to run basic set up with intergrated video. But once you add componets like a video card or drives and such the psu will get pushed to supply enough power to the system. And if the system does this for a period of time the psu will over volt componets and take them out. So not only do you have to replace the psu but also other componets that the psu took with it, not all psu's are created the same. In the end that cheap psu that seemed like a great deal just cost you more and what if it dies before the warrenty is up? Another head ache as you try to get ahold of the company that made it to get it replaced, they don't have a rep like the recomended brands. So getting support is a pain as you wait weeks for a reply or resolution to the problem.

I don't know about you but I'd rather have the name brand psu in my system then a cheap one. Even though I didn't build my current pc, I did make sure to put a better psu in it then the 300 watt lite-on one compaq shipped with it. The current psu I have is a 500 watt seasonic I bought 9 months ago when I built my brothers pc and gave him my 400 watt corsair. So in the long run that cheap psu just cost you more rather than spending a little more then and saving money later. And if that's not enough think what that cheap psu is doing to your electric bill, that psu is wasting power trying to run your pc because it's made with poor craftsmanship.
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