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Old 05-05-2008, 08:18 AM   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: England
Posts: 57
OS: Windows XP


Mistake CiD popups (still have), had 59 viruses!

hi all,
I've been given a computer to try and fix, and gee it was in a bad state. I put AVG 8 on it, and it found 59 viruses! Spybot found alot, but there are still popups (not internet popups, spyware popups) prefixed CiD. I've also removed some programmes that didn't look they were helping (15 yr old girl + no computer knowledge + frostwire = bad infection), and mouse suite that looked quite dodgy. McAfee site advisor has also been installed, which should help her. I will remove Spybot and replace it with ad-aware, as it's a little easier to use (i.e it won't confuse her asking her to allow registry changes).


Logfile of Trend Micro HijackThis v2.0.2
Scan saved at 16:16:48, on 05/05/2008
Platform: Windows XP SP2 (WinNT 5.01.2600)
MSIE: Internet Explorer v7.00 (7.00.6000.16640)
Boot mode: Normal

Running processes:
C:\WINDOWS\System32\smss.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\winlogon.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\services.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\lsass.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\Ati2evxx.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\svchost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
C:\Program Files\Intel\Wireless\Bin\EvtEng.exe
C:\Program Files\Intel\Wireless\Bin\S24EvMon.exe
C:\Program Files\Intel\Wireless\Bin\WLKeeper.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spoolsv.exe
C:\Program Files\Common Files\AOL\ACS\AOLAcsd.exe
C:\Program Files\Common Files\Apple\Mobile Device Support\bin\AppleMobileDeviceService.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\AVG\AVG8\avgwdsvc.exe
C:\Program Files\Common Files\Creative Labs Shared\Service\CreativeLicensing.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\CTsvcCDA.exe
C:\Program Files\Dell Network Assistant\hnm_svc.exe
C:\Program Files\Kontiki\KService.exe
C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\VS7DEBUG\MDM.EXE
C:\Program Files\Dell\QuickSet\NICCONFIGSVC.exe
C:\Program Files\Intel\Wireless\Bin\RegSrvc.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\svchost.exe
C:\Program Files\BT Home Hub\Wireless Configuration\WirelessDaemon.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\AVG\AVG8\avgrsx.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\AVG\AVG8\avgemc.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\Ati2evxx.exe
C:\WINDOWS\Explorer.EXE
C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0_03\bin\jusched.exe
C:\WINDOWS\stsystra.exe
C:\Program Files\Synaptics\SynTP\SynTPEnh.exe
C:\Program Files\Dell\QuickSet\quickset.exe
C:\Program Files\ATI Technologies\ATI.ACE\cli.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\ICO.EXE
C:\Program Files\Intel\Wireless\bin\ZCfgSvc.exe
C:\Program Files\Intel\Wireless\Bin\ifrmewrk.exe
C:\Program Files\Creative\SBAudigy\Surround Mixer\CTSysVol.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\Rundll32.exe
C:\Program Files\Creative\VoiceCenter\AndreaVC.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\Intel\Wireless\Bin\Dot1XCfg.exe
C:\Program Files\Common Files\AOL\ACS\AOLDial.exe
C:\Program Files\Real\RealPlayer\RealPlay.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\dla\tfswctrl.exe
C:\Program Files\Common Files\InstallShield\UpdateService\issch.exe
C:\Program Files\Dell\MediaDirect\PCMService.exe
C:\DOCUME~1\Alex\LOCALS~1\Temp\clclean.0001
C:\Program Files\Corel\Corel Snapfire Plus\Corel Photo Downloader.exe
C:\Program Files\Dell Photo AIO Printer 924\dlccmon.exe
C:\Program Files\QuickTime\QTTask.exe
C:\Program Files\iTunes\iTunesHelper.exe
C:\Program Files\Kontiki\KHost.exe
C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\HijackThis\HijackThis.exe
C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\iexplore.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\AVG\AVG8\avgtray.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\dlcccoms.exe
C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\IEXPLORE.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\system32\ctfmon.exe
C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\IEXPLORE.EXE
C:\Program Files\Windows Live\Messenger\MsnMsgr.Exe
C:\Program Files\Spybot - Search & Destroy\TeaTimer.exe
C:\Program Files\Dell Network Assistant\ezi_hnm2.exe
C:\Program Files\Digital Line Detect\DLG.exe
c:\program files\common files\installshield\updateservice\isuspm.exe
C:\Program Files\Common Files\InstallShield\UpdateService\agent.exe
C:\Program Files\iPod\bin\iPodService.exe
C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Windows Live\WLLoginProxy.exe
C:\Program Files\ATI Technologies\ATI.ACE\cli.exe
C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\iexplore.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\rundll32.exe
C:\Program Files\Windows Defender\MsMpEng.exe
C:\Program Files\Windows Defender\MSASCui.exe
C:\Program Files\AVG\AVG8\avgui.exe
C:\Program Files\SiteAdvisor\6253\SAService.exe
C:\Program Files\SiteAdvisor\6253\SiteAdv.exe
C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\iexplore.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\notepad.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\ZoneLabs\vsmon.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\ZONELA~1\ZONEAL~1\zlclient.exe

R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Default_Page_URL = http://www.google.co.uk/ig/dell?hl=e...uk&ibd=0061110
R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Search Bar = http://g.msn.co.uk/0SEENGB/SAOS01?FORM=TOOLBR
R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Search Page = http://g.msn.co.uk/0SEENGB/SAOS01?FORM=TOOLBR
R0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page = http://www.google.co.uk/
R1 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Default_Page_URL = http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=69157
R1 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Default_Search_URL = http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=54896
R1 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Search Page = http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=54896
R0 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page = http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=69157
R1 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Search,Default_Page_URL = http://www.google.co.uk/ig/dell?hl=e...uk&ibd=0061110
R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\SearchURL,(Default) = http://g.msn.co.uk/0SEENGB/SAOS01?FORM=TOOLBR
R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings,ProxyServer = bc01:8080
R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings,ProxyOverride = bc15;bcx;<local>
O2 - BHO: Adobe PDF Reader Link Helper - {06849E9F-C8D7-4D59-B87D-784B7D6BE0B3} - C:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\Acrobat\ActiveX\AcroIEHelper.dll
O2 - BHO: (no name) - {089FD14D-132B-48FC-8861-0048AE113215} - C:\Program Files\SiteAdvisor\6253\SiteAdv.dll
O2 - BHO: WormRadar.com IESiteBlocker.NavFilter - {3CA2F312-6F6E-4B53-A66E-4E65E497C8C0} - C:\Program Files\AVG\AVG8\avgssie.dll
O2 - BHO: Spybot-S&D IE Protection - {53707962-6F74-2D53-2644-206D7942484F} - C:\PROGRA~1\SPYBOT~1\SDHelper.dll
O2 - BHO: DriveLetterAccess - {5CA3D70E-1895-11CF-8E15-001234567890} - C:\WINDOWS\system32\dla\tfswshx.dll
O2 - BHO: SSVHelper Class - {761497BB-D6F0-462C-B6EB-D4DAF1D92D43} - C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0_03\bin\ssv.dll
O2 - BHO: Windows Live Sign-in Helper - {9030D464-4C02-4ABF-8ECC-5164760863C6} - C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Windows Live\WindowsLiveLogin.dll
O2 - BHO: Windows Live Toolbar Helper - {BDBD1DAD-C946-4A17-ADC1-64B5B4FF55D0} - C:\Program Files\Windows Live Toolbar\msntb.dll
O2 - BHO: Browser Address Error Redirector - {CA6319C0-31B7-401E-A518-A07C3DB8F777} - C:\Program Files\BAE\BAE.dll
O3 - Toolbar: Windows Live Toolbar - {BDAD1DAD-C946-4A17-ADC1-64B5B4FF55D0} - C:\Program Files\Windows Live Toolbar\msntb.dll
O3 - Toolbar: Internet Service - {51D81DD5-55B7-497F-95DB-D356429BB54E} - C:\Program Files\NetProject\wamdl.dll (file missing)
O3 - Toolbar: McAfee SiteAdvisor - {0BF43445-2F28-4351-9252-17FE6E806AA0} - C:\Program Files\SiteAdvisor\6253\SiteAdv.dll
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SunJavaUpdateSched] "C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0_03\bin\jusched.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SigmatelSysTrayApp] stsystra.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SynTPEnh] C:\Program Files\Synaptics\SynTP\SynTPEnh.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Dell QuickSet] C:\Program Files\Dell\QuickSet\quickset.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [ATICCC] "C:\Program Files\ATI Technologies\ATI.ACE\cli.exe" runtime -Delay
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [PMX Daemon] ICO.EXE
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [IntelZeroConfig] "C:\Program Files\Intel\Wireless\bin\ZCfgSvc.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [IntelWireless] "C:\Program Files\Intel\Wireless\Bin\ifrmewrk.exe" /tf Intel PROSet/Wireless
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [CTSysVol] C:\Program Files\Creative\SBAudigy\Surround Mixer\CTSysVol.exe /r
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [MBMon] Rundll32 CTMBHA.DLL,MBMon
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [UpdReg] C:\WINDOWS\UpdReg.EXE
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [VoiceCenter] "C:\Program Files\Creative\VoiceCenter\AndreaVC.exe" /tray
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [AOLDialer] C:\Program Files\Common Files\AOL\ACS\AOLDial.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [RealTray] C:\Program Files\Real\RealPlayer\RealPlay.exe SYSTEMBOOTHIDEPLAYER
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [dla] C:\WINDOWS\system32\dla\tfswctrl.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [ISUSPM Startup] "c:\Program Files\Common Files\InstallShield\UpdateService\isuspm.exe" -startup
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [ISUSScheduler] "C:\Program Files\Common Files\InstallShield\UpdateService\issch.exe" -start
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [PCMService] "C:\Program Files\Dell\MediaDirect\PCMService.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Corel Photo Downloader] C:\Program Files\Corel\Corel Snapfire Plus\Corel Photo Downloader.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [DLCCCATS] rundll32 C:\WINDOWS\System32\spool\DRIVERS\W32X86\3\DLCCtime.dll,_RunDLLEntry@16
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [dlccmon.exe] "C:\Program Files\Dell Photo AIO Printer 924\dlccmon.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [QuickTime Task] "C:\Program Files\QuickTime\QTTask.exe" -atboottime
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [iTunesHelper] "C:\Program Files\iTunes\iTunesHelper.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [4oD] "C:\Program Files\Kontiki\KHost.exe" -all
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Adobe Reader Speed Launcher] "C:\Program Files\Adobe\Reader 8.0\Reader\Reader_sl.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [cwriter] C:\Program Files\Common Files\WinPCDoctor\cookw.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [MSKDetectorExe] C:\Program Files\McAfee\SpamKiller\MSKDetct.exe /uninstall
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Army browse cdrom vga] C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Mfcd upload army browse\type active.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [AVG8_TRAY] C:\PROGRA~1\AVG\AVG8\avgtray.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Windows Defender] "C:\Program Files\Windows Defender\MSASCui.exe" -hide
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SiteAdvisor] C:\Program Files\SiteAdvisor\6253\SiteAdv.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [ZoneAlarm Client] "C:\Program Files\Zone Labs\ZoneAlarm\zlclient.exe"
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [ModemOnHold] C:\Program Files\NetWaiting\netWaiting.exe
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [SetDefaultMIDI] MIDIDef.exe
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [ctfmon.exe] C:\WINDOWS\system32\ctfmon.exe
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [MsnMsgr] "C:\Program Files\Windows Live\Messenger\MsnMsgr.Exe" /background
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [Fastoption] C:\DOCUME~1\Alex\APPLIC~1\BLEHPR~1\close deaf.exe
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [kdx] C:\Program Files\Kontiki\KHost.exe -all
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [SpybotSD TeaTimer] C:\Program Files\Spybot - Search & Destroy\TeaTimer.exe
O4 - HKCU\..\RunOnce: [SpybotDeletingD7126] cmd /c del "C:\Program Files\VirusRanger\Languages\english.ini"
O4 - HKUS\S-1-5-18\..\Run: [CTFMON.EXE] C:\WINDOWS\system32\CTFMON.EXE (User 'SYSTEM')
O4 - HKUS\.DEFAULT\..\Run: [CTFMON.EXE] C:\WINDOWS\system32\CTFMON.EXE (User 'Default user')
O4 - Startup: IMVU.lnk = C:\Program Files\IMVU\IMVUClient.exe
O4 - Global Startup: AOL 9.0 Tray Icon.lnk = C:\Program Files\AOL 9.0\aoltray.exe
O4 - Global Startup: Dell Network Assistant.lnk = ?
O4 - Global Startup: Digital Line Detect.lnk = ?
O6 - HKCU\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Restrictions present
O8 - Extra context menu item: &Windows Live Search - res://C:\Program Files\Windows Live Toolbar\msntb.dll/search.htm
O8 - Extra context menu item: E&xport to Microsoft Excel - res://C:\PROGRA~1\MICROS~3\OFFICE11\EXCEL.EXE/3000
O9 - Extra button: (no name) - {08B0E5C0-4FCB-11CF-AAA5-00401C608501} - C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0_03\bin\ssv.dll
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Sun Java Console - {08B0E5C0-4FCB-11CF-AAA5-00401C608501} - C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0_03\bin\ssv.dll
O9 - Extra button: Research - {92780B25-18CC-41C8-B9BE-3C9C571A8263} - C:\PROGRA~1\MICROS~3\OFFICE11\REFIEBAR.DLL
O9 - Extra button: Real.com - {CD67F990-D8E9-11d2-98FE-00C0F0318AFE} - C:\WINDOWS\system32\Shdocvw.dll
O9 - Extra button: Run IMVU - {d9288080-1baa-4bc4-9cf8-a92d743db949} - C:\Documents and Settings\Alex\Start Menu\Programs\IMVU\Run IMVU.lnk
O9 - Extra button: (no name) - {DFB852A3-47F8-48C4-A200-58CAB36FD2A2} - C:\PROGRA~1\SPYBOT~1\SDHelper.dll
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Spybot - Search & Destroy Configuration - {DFB852A3-47F8-48C4-A200-58CAB36FD2A2} - C:\PROGRA~1\SPYBOT~1\SDHelper.dll
O9 - Extra button: (no name) - {e2e2dd38-d088-4134-82b7-f2ba38496583} - C:\WINDOWS\Network Diagnostic\xpnetdiag.exe
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: @xpsp3res.dll,-20001 - {e2e2dd38-d088-4134-82b7-f2ba38496583} - C:\WINDOWS\Network Diagnostic\xpnetdiag.exe
O9 - Extra button: Messenger - {FB5F1910-F110-11d2-BB9E-00C04F795683} - C:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exe
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Windows Messenger - {FB5F1910-F110-11d2-BB9E-00C04F795683} - C:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exe
O16 - DPF: {6414512B-B978-451D-A0D8-FCFDF33E833C} (WUWebControl Class) - http://update.microsoft.com/microsof...?1164033623375
O16 - DPF: {6E32070A-766D-4EE6-879C-DC1FA91D2FC3} (MUWebControl Class) - http://update.microsoft.com/microsof...?1164033603750
O16 - DPF: {C3F79A2B-B9B4-4A66-B012-3EE46475B072} (MessengerStatsClient Class) - http://messenger.zone.msn.com/binary...t.cab56907.cab
O16 - DPF: {D27CDB6E-AE6D-11CF-96B8-444553540000} (Shockwave Flash Object) - http://fpdownload2.macromedia.com/ge...sh/swflash.cab
O18 - Protocol: linkscanner - {F274614C-63F8-47D5-A4D1-FBDDE494F8D1} - C:\Program Files\AVG\AVG8\avgpp.dll
O20 - AppInit_DLLs: C:\PROGRA~1\Google\GOOGLE~1\GOEC62~1.DLL,avgrsstx.dll
O22 - SharedTaskScheduler: enswathes - {4d51e91c-e917-4b7f-89ff-abe471e16927} - C:\WINDOWS\system32\uyhjw.dll (file missing)
O23 - Service: AOL Connectivity Service (AOL ACS) - America Online, Inc. - C:\Program Files\Common Files\AOL\ACS\AOLAcsd.exe
O23 - Service: Apple Mobile Device - Apple, Inc. - C:\Program Files\Common Files\Apple\Mobile Device Support\bin\AppleMobileDeviceService.exe
O23 - Service: Ati HotKey Poller - ATI Technologies Inc. - C:\WINDOWS\system32\Ati2evxx.exe
O23 - Service: AVG8 E-mail Scanner (avg8emc) - AVG Technologies CZ, s.r.o. - C:\PROGRA~1\AVG\AVG8\avgemc.exe
O23 - Service: AVG8 WatchDog (avg8wd) - AVG Technologies CZ, s.r.o. - C:\PROGRA~1\AVG\AVG8\avgwdsvc.exe
O23 - Service: Creative Labs Licensing Service - Creative Labs - C:\Program Files\Common Files\Creative Labs Shared\Service\CreativeLicensing.exe
O23 - Service: Creative Service for CDROM Access - Creative Technology Ltd - C:\WINDOWS\system32\CTsvcCDA.exe
O23 - Service: dlcc_device - - C:\WINDOWS\system32\dlcccoms.exe
O23 - Service: Intel(R) PROSet/Wireless Event Log (EvtEng) - Intel Corporation - C:\Program Files\Intel\Wireless\Bin\EvtEng.exe
O23 - Service: Advanced Networking Service (hnmsvc) - SingleClick Systems - C:\Program Files\Dell Network Assistant\hnm_svc.exe
O23 - Service: iPod Service - Apple Inc. - C:\Program Files\iPod\bin\iPodService.exe
O23 - Service: KService - Kontiki Inc. - C:\Program Files\Kontiki\KService.exe
O23 - Service: NICCONFIGSVC - Dell Inc. - C:\Program Files\Dell\QuickSet\NICCONFIGSVC.exe
O23 - Service: Intel(R) PROSet/Wireless Registry Service (RegSrvc) - Intel Corporation - C:\Program Files\Intel\Wireless\Bin\RegSrvc.exe
O23 - Service: Intel(R) PROSet/Wireless Service (S24EventMonitor) - Intel Corporation - C:\Program Files\Intel\Wireless\Bin\S24EvMon.exe
O23 - Service: SiteAdvisor Service - Unknown owner - C:\Program Files\SiteAdvisor\6253\SAService.exe
O23 - Service: TrueVector Internet Monitor (vsmon) - Zone Labs, LLC - C:\WINDOWS\system32\ZoneLabs\vsmon.exe
O23 - Service: Wireless Adapter Configurator - Unknown owner - C:\Program Files\BT Home Hub\Wireless Configuration\WirelessDaemon.exe
O23 - Service: Intel(R) PROSet/Wireless SSO Service (WLANKEEPER) - Intel(R) Corporation - C:\Program Files\Intel\Wireless\Bin\WLKeeper.exe

--
End of file - 15365 bytes



Thanks,
Nappymonster
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Old 05-05-2008, 01:06 PM   #2 (permalink)
Analyst, Security Team
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Montreal, QC. Canada
Posts: 103
OS: Windows 2000 Pro.


Re: CiD popups (still have), had 59 viruses!

Hello, Welcome to TSF
I'm nasdaq and will help you.

If you can please print this topic it will make it easier for you to follow the instructions and complete all of the necessary steps.

Uninstall the following via Add/Remove Programs, if present :

CiD Help
CiD Manager
Messenger plus or messenger plus and client
Download Plugin for Internet Explorer
Bitdownload
Zone Media
WinZix
Search Plugin
Bitgrabber
BitRol
Netpumper
Torrent101
W3player


In case, during uninstall, when asked for the uninstall Verification, please enter the numbers that will appear in the window

Then reboot. Important!

After reboot,

* Download Deljob.exe and save it on your desktop.
Doubleclick Deljob.exe.

A log, (logit.txt) should open afterwards. This log will be present on your desktop.
Post the contents of the logfile in your next reply together with a new Hijackthis log.
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Old 05-06-2008, 10:50 AM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: England
Posts: 57
OS: Windows XP


Re: CiD popups (still have), had 59 viruses!

Thank you very much - alot of useful info. unfortunately the family needed the laptop back, even though it was still not fixed. Before giving it back (and unfortunately seeing this reply) i had removed a few 'dodgy' looking programmes. I'll speak to them about getting it back, and if i do get it back i'll post again with the log. Expect it to be up to a week though.

Sorry for the inconvenience,
Nappymonster
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Old 05-06-2008, 01:02 PM   #4 (permalink)
Analyst, Security Team
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Montreal, QC. Canada
Posts: 103
OS: Windows 2000 Pro.


Re: CiD popups (still have), had 59 viruses!

Send them my fix via E-mail.

I'm sure they can remove these programs with the Add/Remove programs tool if they find them.
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