Crawler Spyware Terminator

Adam_30457 · 08-07-2007, 07:22 PM

Hi everyone, how's everyone doing? I was wondering, I use Inbox.com email service and they have a program for antispyware with real time protection and everything is free and has absolutely no spyware in it. What I want to know is if anyone else has heard of it and ever used it before. I am trying it out now and so far it seems ok, but I just want other people's advice on it. I have AVG and Ad-Aware but I cannot afford to upgrade either on of them to get real-time protection. Any help is always appreciated.

**Wox** · 08-10-2007, 04:53 PM

Spyware Terminator is a legit program, Spyware Warrior has removed it from the rouge list. Neil J. Rubenking, however, says in the review that it offer mediocre protection and it's not the protection you need. For real-time protection try Spyware Doctor Starter Edition.
Info, links and more on free antivirus and antispyware programs can be found at http://tinyurl.com/2mxbhz.

Adam_30457 · 08-10-2007, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wox

Spyware Terminator is a legit program, Spyware Warrior has removed it from the rouge list. Neil J. Rubenking, however, says in the review that it offer mediocre protection and it's not the protection you need. For real-time protection try Spyware Doctor Starter Edition.
Info, links and more on free antivirus and antispyware programs can be found at http://tinyurl.com/2mxbhz.

Thanks for the info.

Tokar · 08-21-2007, 01:12 AM

With regard to the PCMag review:

Neil is known to use commercial keyloggers in his detection testing. I know this because I read a recent review of Ad-Aware 2007 in the most recent issue of PCMag (Aug 24 2007 or something) and they said that Ad-Aware 2007 was also poor in detected the commercial keyloggers used for testing. With that said, Spyware Terminator currently does not detect commercial keyloggers as spyware, since they are legitimate software titles which are used by companies to monitor employees' activities or by parents intending to monitor their childrens' activities. So poor performance in Neil's keylogger test was not surprising.

With regard to the poor performance in the spyware test:
I was viewing a thread at SixFiles.com about to Spyware Terminator and I saw a user (who certainly appears to be positive towards Spyware Terminator) post email correspondence with Neil. Here is the quote from the thread:

Quote:

*********************************************************************************
Hello Neil,

Your review of Spyware Terminator (ST) has raised a number of questions among users of the software (including myself). While I felt the review went into considerable depth it actually would have been better if you had provided even more detail. For instance, how about a detailed list of all the malware you used during the detection tests? It would also be good to show specifically which malware were detected and which were not for each application. I understand that would be too much information to put into a pcmag.com review, but you could provide this information in a larger online review posted to a different site, or a newsgroup (such as alt.comp.freeware where there was a heated discussion about the review).
There is also a question about the difference between detecting malware that is already on the computer Vs blocking/preventing it from getting into the system to begin with. Folks who represent Crawler say that ST is much better at blocking malware with it's real time shield (RTS) then it is detecting it after the fact. It seems valid to me that the RTS of an application should be evaluated separately since it is providing a distinctly separate function.

Regarding the HIPS functionality of ST, you implied that it was less then the real deal, but it would have been more helpful if you had compared it to another HIPS application that you feel does the job properly so the reader could understand why HIPS as implemented in ST is deficient.
Last, you mentioned that ST failed to block Trojans and root kits. Some people are of the opinion that antivirus software should bear the responsibility for dealing with this kind of malware. Wouldn't it be fair to ask Crawler if ST is designed to detect Trojans and root kits? Do you personally feel that AS should be capable of blocking Trojans and root kits? On average do most AS applications have that capability?
Thanks for taking some time to read this. I would be very interested to hear what you have to say.

(the author's response follows)
**********************************************************************************
I can't release the sample names because I'm not able to change sample sets quickly enough. Picture if the list were widely known - then product X would work double-time to make sure they get *those*.
If you will read the review you will see that it clearly distinguishes the separate tests for removal and for blocking.

Host-based Intrusion Prevention System defines software that detects and prevents intrusions, typically attacks that exploit vulnerabilities in the operating system or in third-party software. Merely blocking every unknown program is not remotely the same thing.

A virus is a malicious program that "reproduces" itself. Trojans and rootkits are malicious programs that do not. One could easily argue that an antivirus is not responsible for protecting against Trojans and rootkits since by definition they are not viruses. In any case, all of the significant antispyware programs *do* attempt to protect against Trojans and rootkits - if one product says "Oh, that's not my area", customers will not be impressed.

-njr

His reply is not a very pleasing one. While he may be a malware collector, testing products against more recent malware, spyware, adware, etc. there is nothing stopping him from testing products against older samples. Because he is unwilling to list the samples/threats he uses, we will never know how old or new his database is.
I bring this up because Spyware Terminator is only 1.5 years old (v1.0 October 2005). Im sure you, as an advanced computer user, know that samples become very hard to locate once they become ineffective and part of internet history. While these samples are ineffective and will never harm your computer if installed today, there is nothing stopping Neil from testing these samples during his tests with antispyware products.

Is there room to improve with our definitions? Absolutely. We are working hard to improve our database, doing what is necessary to make it one of the best out there.

Testing malware/adware/spyware is hard because there is so much out there, with so many varients, installing files with wacky names and installing ridiculous amounts of registry keys. Test results for programs will vary from test to test, unfortunately.

**Wox** · 08-21-2007, 08:47 AM

Sir, hardly anyone in the community recommends ST. Some are still skeptical about its company being Crawler. I don't think a ST employee should be advertising/defending the product in a tech support forum (I mean, that's the name of it, right?) while surely nobody needs your info as long as the product stinks.
I used to use ST with enthusiasm, but it just doesn't live up to its name.
"The first completely free internet security suite"? ROFL!!!

**Glaswegian** · 08-21-2007, 03:37 PM

ST was, of course listed by Eric Howes. Although he has since delisted it, I doubt that many folks will take it seriously. Leopards rarely change their spots. There are plenty of quality applications out there that will do a better job than ST. They will need to go a very long way to convince me.

Tokar · 08-28-2007, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wox

Sir, hardly anyone in the community recommends ST. Some are still skeptical about its company being Crawler. I don't think a ST employee should be advertising/defending the product in a tech support forum (I mean, that's the name of it, right?) while surely nobody needs your info as long as the product stinks.
I used to use ST with enthusiasm, but it just doesn't live up to its name.
"The first completely free internet security suite"? ROFL!!!

I am not advertising for it. You may read my post again if you like.
Advertising would be something like:
"go download it now...free free free!"
"#1 blah blah blah"
"best blah blah out there!"

I was just adding to the discussion in an objective manner.

In regards to your quote about "free internet security suite", different companies have different definitions of "suite". And our definition of "suite" differs from that of other companies. Users probably won't like that, but because we include an antivirus and a security awareness product (web security guard) which also integrates with Spyware Terminator, Spyware Terminator is more than just a simple application; it is a suite of applications.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glaswegian

ST was, of course listed by Eric Howes. Although he has since delisted it, I doubt that many folks will take it seriously. Leopards rarely change their spots. There are plenty of quality applications out there that will do a better job than ST. They will need to go a very long way to convince me.

Unfortunately, people never read fully into a listing, and never full understand what goes into delisting.
It was listed not for questions out of malicious practices, or including malicious content, or any associated with geniune rogue software like SpySherrif, SpyFalcon, etc. It was listed out of question of Crawler. Eric never alledged that Crawler was doing anything bad or wrong, but he wanted to make sure that Crawler was not associated with any of the previous practices of IBIS, which is was and is not.
And a delisting, of course, requires a lot trust that it is safe. They dont just remove software because they feel like it, or because of expiration. They take careful consideration of everything related to the software and determine whether it warrants removal, and in this case it did.

You may read Eric's response at DSLReports to all discussion about Spyware Terminator's listing: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652263

Quote:

Originally Posted by eburger68

Hi All:

Since the note at Spyware Warrior regarding Spyware Terminator has become a subject of discussion, let me say a few things about that note.

First, it's important to read the note carefully and not read into it more than is there. For instance, we never claimed that Spyware Terminator was malware itself (in fact, we also said quite clearly that it wasn't) or that Spyware Terminator was involved in the distribution of malware.

We said the the company behind Spyware Terminator had at one time distributed adware, and we initially listed the product on the Rogue/Suspect list because of that connection, until we could get a better sense for the company's course of behavior following its decision to exit the adware business.

Second, it's important to recognize that the Rogue/Suspect list includes a wide variety of products. On the low end, we list products that are bad at what they purport to do -- detect and remove spyware and adware. On the high end we have products that install malware themselves, that hijack users' PCs, or that use fraudulent tactics to push their products on unsuspecting consumers.

My point is, don't assume that because a product is listed on the Rogue/Suspect list that the product or company behind the product is guilty of the worst behavior imaginable. Take the time to read our notes regarding the product.

Third, when we de-list a product, as we did with Spyware Terminator, we do so with the confidence and expectation that the vendors have rectified the problems identified with the product or the practices associated with the product. In this case, the problem was our uncertainty over the vendor's own trustworthiness, given its historical connection to adware distribution. We de-listed the product because the vendor had satisified our concerns. And, I can report, the vendor continues to satisfy our concerns.

We document the product de-listings that we perform, because we think readers of the page deserve to know what happened with a particular paroduct that they know was once listed. As I've told several vendors at this point, "We don't do memory holes at Spyware Warrior."

But it's important that those de-listing notes not be taken for more than they are. They certainly shouldn't be regarded as a kind of "scarlet letter" that forever marks a product -- that's certainly not how we created the de-listing notes.

To those who are debating whether or not to give Spyware Terminator a trial, my advice would be to do so. We don't recommend the product at Spyware Warrior, but that's no reason for readers here not to try the product, if they are so inclined. Spyware Terminator is not malicious in any way and poses no danger to your system. If you encounter what you suspect to be a false positive in its scan results, tehn you should handle it the way you would false positives with any other product: report it/them to the vendor so that they can be corrected.

My apologies for the lengthy interjection here, but I wanted to make sure that folks were clear on just what the Rogue/Suspect list is and how it functions.

Best,

Eric L. Howes
--
Microsoft MVP

Sunbelt Software

Spyware Warrior

Your opinion is your own (with regards to better applications than Spyware Terminator) and I can't change that. It will take time to convince people, and we have a lot of that.

A leopard may not change its spots, but it sure doesn't change its feeling that spots are rather a credit. (modified quote from Ivy Compton-Burnett).

**Wox** · 08-28-2007, 11:34 AM

Well, yeah everyone has their own opinion, and sure you can call that "objective" opinion and a suite of applications.
Although you could call it a security suite, god help the dude who actually chooses it as the main protection.
I agree with Iain. So many products do so much better than ST that you guys will have to go a really long way. Or just give up.

Edit- wow.. you DID go a really long way defending the product. matter of fact, I didn't even read it through. You're much better off spending time improving the product.

**Glaswegian** · 08-28-2007, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wox

Edit- wow.. you DID go a really long way defending the product. matter of fact, I didn't even read it through. You're much better off spending time improving the product.

lol - my thoughts exactly...

Tokar · 08-28-2007, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wox

Well, yeah everyone has their own opinion, and sure you can call that "objective" opinion and a suite of applications.
Although you could call it a security suite, god help the dude who actually chooses it as the main protection.
I agree with Iain. So many products do so much better than ST that you guys will have to go a really long way. Or just give up.

Edit- wow.. you DID go a really long way defending the product. matter of fact, I didn't even read it through. You're much better off spending time improving the product.

Considering I have to do it quite often, I have become quite efficient at it.

We dont feel that people who use it as their main protection suite are at risk. Enabling HIPS and ClamAV gives users very powerful protection which should prevent infections from ever occuring on the user's machine. And if used properly, Web Security Guard can be a very useful tool in keeping users aware of the websites they visit.

Users who intend to use only freeware software will probably find that Spyware Terminator is one of their best choices.

Ad-Aware 2007 free does not offer realtime protection.
Arovax AntiSpyware does not offer realtime protection.
A-Squared free does not offer realtime protection.
AVG AntiSpyware free does not offer realtime protection.
SpyBot offers nothing more than a very basic realtime protection engine.
Spyware Doctor starter edition (part of Google Pack) does not offer realtime protection. Yes, threatfire is free while in beta, however I do not know what will happen to it out of beta, and whether it will remain a standalone product or be integrated into Spyware Doctor.
SuperAntiSpyware free does not offer realtime protection.
Windows Defender offers very basic realtime protection.

I am not sure of many other quality, dedicated free antispyware software titles which I can add to this list above.

People who are willing to pay for antispyware products might find better products than Spyware Terminator, sure. But in the freeware market I think we have one of the better products out there.

**Glaswegian** · 08-28-2007, 04:30 PM

I've nothing more to add here and since the rest is starting to sound like blatant advertising, which is against our rules, I think it's time to close this one.

08-07-2007, 07:22 PM	#1 (permalink)
Adam_30457 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Soperton,GA Posts: 346 OS: Windows XP Pro My System	Crawler Spyware Terminator Hi everyone, how's everyone doing? I was wondering, I use Inbox.com email service and they have a program for antispyware with real time protection and everything is free and has absolutely no spyware in it. What I want to know is if anyone else has heard of it and ever used it before. I am trying it out now and so far it seems ok, but I just want other people's advice on it. I have AVG and Ad-Aware but I cannot afford to upgrade either on of them to get real-time protection. Any help is always appreciated. __________________ You take the blue pill, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and you believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in wonderland. And, I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.

08-10-2007, 04:53 PM	#2 (permalink)
Wox TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 638 OS: XP Pro SP2 My System	Re: Crawler Spyware Terminator Spyware Terminator is a legit program, Spyware Warrior has removed it from the rouge list. Neil J. Rubenking, however, says in the review that it offer mediocre protection and it's not the protection you need. For real-time protection try Spyware Doctor Starter Edition. Info, links and more on free antivirus and antispyware programs can be found at http://tinyurl.com/2mxbhz.

08-21-2007, 08:47 AM	#5 (permalink)
Wox TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 638 OS: XP Pro SP2 My System	Re: Crawler Spyware Terminator Sir, hardly anyone in the community recommends ST. Some are still skeptical about its company being Crawler. I don't think a ST employee should be advertising/defending the product in a tech support forum (I mean, that's the name of it, right?) while surely nobody needs your info as long as the product stinks. I used to use ST with enthusiasm, but it just doesn't live up to its name. "The first completely free internet security suite"? ROFL!!! Last edited by Wox; 08-21-2007 at 08:56 AM.

08-21-2007, 03:37 PM	#6 (permalink)
Glaswegian Moderator/ Rangemaster TSF Academy; Analyst, Security Team; Oor Wullie; TSF Surgeon and Resident Comic Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Glasgow Posts: 25,153 OS: Win XP Pro SP3 / Win 7 Pro My System Blog Entries: 10	Re: Crawler Spyware Terminator ST was, of course listed by Eric Howes. Although he has since delisted it, I doubt that many folks will take it seriously. Leopards rarely change their spots. There are plenty of quality applications out there that will do a better job than ST. They will need to go a very long way to convince me. __________________ Iain - Defender of the Haggis and all things Scottish. I don't help by PM - post in the Forums. PC Safety & Security::PC running a bit slow?::Donate::Photographers Corner

08-28-2007, 11:34 AM	#8 (permalink)
Wox TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 638 OS: XP Pro SP2 My System	Re: Crawler Spyware Terminator Well, yeah everyone has their own opinion, and sure you can call that "objective" opinion and a suite of applications. Although you could call it a security suite, god help the dude who actually chooses it as the main protection. I agree with Iain. So many products do so much better than ST that you guys will have to go a really long way. Or just give up. Edit- wow.. you DID go a really long way defending the product. matter of fact, I didn't even read it through. You're much better off spending time improving the product. Last edited by Wox; 08-28-2007 at 11:41 AM.

08-28-2007, 04:30 PM	#11 (permalink)
Glaswegian Moderator/ Rangemaster TSF Academy; Analyst, Security Team; Oor Wullie; TSF Surgeon and Resident Comic Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Glasgow Posts: 25,153 OS: Win XP Pro SP3 / Win 7 Pro My System Blog Entries: 10	Re: Crawler Spyware Terminator I've nothing more to add here and since the rest is starting to sound like blatant advertising, which is against our rules, I think it's time to close this one. __________________ Iain - Defender of the Haggis and all things Scottish. I don't help by PM - post in the Forums. PC Safety & Security::PC running a bit slow?::Donate::Photographers Corner