lingui

Hi

Please can anyone help me understand (in layman's terms) the threat posed by others figuring out my IP address?

First, how do they do it?

Second, although I vaguely understand that this can allow control of my computer for various malicious purposes, I've also heard that an IP address can identify a physical machine and it's location. Is this the case? Don't ISPs assign you a new IP each time you log on?

Even a good reference source for this kind of info would be helpful.

Thanks

Kalim

Hi

Static IP's are just as unsafe as a Dynamic IP. There is no threat to you by others figuring out your IP but the threat that everyone online faces, as every website you visit can see your IP address to verify where you are (roughly) and thus who. Accuracy on the "where" value is not always sufficient. The hazards are when it comes to devious minds intent on wrongdoing, such as hackers. In that case you have to monitor you system and have good security that is all. They can easily obtain your IP address, which is your system ID in other words but nothing much can be done with it if you are well protected. The only way to attack, harm or control your computer is by hacking, spamming and trojans/viruses/malware etc.

Only subscriptions of Dynamic IP's are when your IP is changed every time one logs in, reset, reconnect etc. The disadvantage here is, others who are banned from online places use such services or proxies and as their IP is passed on to another individual next, the individual will find him/herself banned from certain sites without having done anything -- because another user who was previously assigned that IP, was the one banned.

The best thing to secure yourself from being a "zombie" computer is a hardware firewall with a software firewall. Hardware firewalls are part of a router with that feature and the software firewall is on your system to detect and fight this. Always check your port activity to see its normal. Most mainstream firewalls carry this feature. The rest of what you need is explained well here: PC Safety and Security--What Do I Need?

Hope it helps and post back if you're unsure of anything.

MattBro

As always, unless your computer is running software which has security holes; you're completely safe. Even if someone has your IP address.

And no, unless your a commercial buisness which has optioned to advertise your physical address, there's no way for someone to find out your precise location.

stirling

Your IP is easilly gleaned if the web site is coded to do it - but that's no big deal - read on.

No it can't - not just by knowing your IP address - without going into all the details that's why you run a firewall and anti-virus software. It's a bit like saying if someone knows your address they can just wander in and take your stuff, they can't if you keep your house secure.


Only down to at most which city you live in.

Not neccessarily - but it wouldn't make any real difference anyway. Just cos you change your house name doesn't make it any more secure.

You were going great till you spoiled it with this. Unless your ISP tells someone who asks (in which case you'd sue them) there is no way to tell WHO you are i.e. stuff like your name address etc. from your IP.

Kalim

I have seen quite a few forums able to trace your location pin point. So by that what was meant is, if a place of yours where you're surfing from is known; it's pretty damn accurate equipped with the time to allow a site owner to easily trace another back. This can obviously occur through the police and ISP anyway, given a good reason for it. It wasn't meant that a name/address etc would be given away. Certainly not unless it was done willingly.

stirling

Well if by location you mean geographical location and by pin-point you mean down to the city in which your ISP is based then OK, anything closer and I've yet to hear any explanation of how this can be done. Lots of anecdotes but never an explanation.

You'll be telling me next that ISPs allocate IPs by zip/post code. Possible - but a new one on me - always willing to learn though... But even then it would require the ISP to publish them - which again to my knowlege they don't.

There is ONE way to deduce where a host MAY be. But that has nothing to do with tracing IP addresses as such. I'd say it was a fair bet that any hosts with IPs allocated to rle.mit.edu for example, are somewhere in the main campus in Cambridge, Massachusetts. There you go, I got it down to a building (or two, or three...).

Kalim

Oh it can certainly be done and is a method employed legally for quite some time now: http://www.ip2location.com/default.aspx

There's also IP tracers freely available online but software is purchased by many sites to keep them all secure.

I recall at least one friend who owns a computing site and utilizes such services. A simple matter of coding.

Uni or business IP's are usually assigned as a block whole so they aren't as "pin-point" traceable as say someone in a house.

stirling

Kalim - you're really going to have to raise your game on this one.

Have you actually tried their demos? Their 'highest definition' demo got me to within 250 miles. Actually (as expected) it got the city of my ISP. Where did it place you?

point me to one that can get closer than the one above.

Anecdote.

Code all you want - without DATA it ain't worth squat.

huh?

Kalim

stirling, read the left hand side column in the link. It can pin pint to zip code, latitude and longitude. The demo is only supposed to note the ISP.
This is old news I'm afraid. Its something known by many for a while, so I suggest you google and I'm sure much will come up to your surprise.

stirling

Sorry, where does it say this?

Also have you read the disclaimer regarding ISPs?

MattBro

I'm afraid the latitude/longitude does not work. Just tested it with Google Earth. Nowhere near where I live.

Kalim

This is already drifting far from the topic and the posters question, which was if using an IP a site could track him at all.

The demo version is only for the basic query and not too accurate. The larger the nation the more the inaccuracy it seems. In UK it gets me to within 30miles. Its just an example of one such method as to show it does exist and is used worldwide. The versions sold to websites and businesses are costly. Trace IP and other services and products available online can also do this. Many sites have this as a safety net.
I first realized when being in Burnley, UK for work, my account was banned from physorg.com a few years back while I had no idea why. When I enquired (they are UK based) I was told my physical address and that they reported me to the police. It happened to be that on that day, my IP assigned was one previously used by a spammer and someone who threatened to attack their families. I had no doubt about it, its in the realms of technology, but when at the police station the officer read out the info they handed over and had managed to obtain (geographical location of posting that day) then obviously I was sure that they had tracked it down pretty well. Luckily it wasn't me and I had proof
IP2.jpgShow which version is demo with minimal functionality.
IP2-1.jpgShows another online version that sites can use for tracking in some form.
IP2-2.jpgShows the versions that allow extended and more accurate locating.

lingui

Thanks for all the insights so far.

It so happens that while thinking of signing up for a service using a checking account, I was directed to wts.com which has the courtesy to display the IP address it's recording. Out of curiosity I logged off my ISP and back on again. The IP showing on wts.com was indeed different the second time, except for the first three digits.

Both times I went to ip2location.com and both times the demo came up with Reston, Virginia as a location (nowhere near). Would that be the ISP location maybe?

From what everyone's been posting, it seems the ISP would have to keep a historical log of IPs assigned to each user for there to be a cross-reference to personal data?

Fox

It really depends on how much information is known about your ISP- it's entirely possible that an IP address wouldn't translate to a domain name at all, in which case the person seeking information would have nothing to go on unless they had access to ICANN (the organization that assigns IP address) databases, or whether by context the location can be approximated (ie., the location of IPs close to it are known).

In some circumstances, you can get info all the way down to a cable node which will identify a neighborhood or building. You wouldn't need to subpoena this information from a provider- there will be enough information mined into databases like ip2location that the information will be accurate.

There are a TON of exploits that can bring a windows machine to its knees, and they are so available that if you don't have a firewall, windows updates, etc.- and you have an enemy that knows your IP, you're not in a very good position.

Even if your system is bulletproof, an attacker with a botnet (a large group of computers under the attacker's control) can launch a DoS ("denial of service") attack on your IP, and your connection will be flooded with ping requests. Unlikely unless you make someone with a serious CRT tan very very angry.

stirling

Quote: CERT is a center of internet security expertise, located at the Software Engineering Institute, a federally funded research and development center operated by Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cert.org/
see: http://www.cert.org/archive/pdf/02sr009.pdf amongs others.

Flat earth society members can considerably lighten the load on the US tax$ by contacting the above with what they know about geo-location of dynamic IP connected hosts. Apparently they (like me) are still struggling with what you all know already.

Important note for EEC members: might be a little more awkward for you: please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_addr...lity_in_Europe

And those pesky Germans have given you no chance of a selling your knowledge: see http://www.cjbuckley.net/blog/category/legal/

Oh and by the way you may want to help out the poor deluded US legal profession if this lawyer is anything to go by - http://www.ebglaw.com/article_483.html. Apparently he doesn't realize that ISPs give out their connection logs as a matter of course to people like IP2Location (who presumably are also kept informed every time a user reconnects so they can adjust their DB) even though you were told this (for example) http://www.broadband.com/legal.html when you signed up.

As a last thought if you don't fancy joining CERT then try googling with keywords like "impossible" "trace" "dynamic IP" "without ISP cooperation" - brings up loads of other job opportunities (mainly at universities and research agencies). Strange that, seeing as all those who claim the opposite are either like-minded souls on forums or commercial companies selling products.