A country of idiots with nukes

yustr · 04-18-2006, 01:56 PM

I came across this on the net and thought it would start an interesting discussion. A little long but provocative.

Quote:

One worthwhile question is why does ...[editor: I don't want to get into the subject of the original post] have most of its followers in the most technically advanced society in the world? In a visit to the US about 3 years ago I was developing ideas about inter-cultural education that led me to work with families and their school system in a middle class suburb. I was amazed out how under-resourced the schools were and how under-paid the teachers were. When I asked to see the physics labs nobody could show me them - they didn't exist. The only physical resources that I could find that were better than you could find in comparable European schools were for sports and parking cars. But these were not failing schools, I had been sent to them because they were the pride of the system. I asked students and former students what they learnt and the answer was that, overwhelmingly, they studied social sciences, and these they learnt by discussion. As teaching was a despised profession and the schools had no money, because the only aim of government was lower taxes, a form of education had been invented that allowed students to feel good and that cost very little. This education system has created a fertile ground for nonsensical ideas to grow in. Often when I was visiting the family of students to talk about education I would have leaflets and books from strange religious and quasi-scientific movements given to me. Coming to understand that modern American education is one that is constantly failing to provide its students with an introduction to how we can know, or not know about the natural and social worlds, has helped me enormously in understanding modern America. However, despite any understanding, having a badly educated nation as the only superpower is the very scary.

ebackhus · 04-18-2006, 02:01 PM

Not teaching from a book. It's a good idea! When I was in HS we had plenty of classes where we just discussed things. Every student could input something which lead to everyone learning despite neve having taken notes, listened to lecture, or even open a book.

04-18-2006, 02:32 PM

Thats the beauty of it. Robots they need and robots they have. Slaves should not ask or know how to ask questions. All they need is to work, not question anything and pay their damn taxes. And very sadly a degree from a US school will amazingly increase your income in other developing/under developed countries. Very sad.

As a very sweet fruit of the system, culture and life style we all have to start working early. We dont have time for school. We pay rent, insurance and alcohol and drugs. Our governments love investing on weapons forgetting the ultimate weapon is the brain power. So our teachers and schools are underpaid. Employers prefer work experience over higher education. The good jobs are already engaged with some " lucky ones " so why the hell in the world we should go to school ? In many regions in US people finish high school barely reading...

Well to sum it we dont need education. Who does ?

I never saw anyone complaining :) They make a clown of their selves when they talk and they find it amuzing...

Attached you can see the american world map. Thats whats enough to know about world.

ebackhus · 04-18-2006, 04:12 PM

http://zen.chakuriki.net/world/

**devil lady** · 04-18-2006, 05:02 PM

What a shame, I was going to comment and submit on that Zen map but all I get is an error. That is unbelievable when you read the revisions the map has taken. Are there really people that uneducated?

ebackhus · 04-18-2006, 05:43 PM

Yes! You'd be surprised how many idiots there are! I don't know if you get to see Jay Leno down in Aussie Land, but he does this little segment called "Jay Walking" where he asks people about current events and stuff. Really gives you an idea for the state of things...

**bruiser** · 04-18-2006, 06:13 PM

Hannity does a "man on the street" segment on his radio show. Usually asks questions of college age people. Really simple questions like "who is the President", "who is the Vice-President", "who is Condi Rice", "who is Harry Reid", you get the drift. The majority of people can't answer one of the questions.

mimo2005 · 04-19-2006, 08:46 AM

purplesky :

Thank you for the laugh ..oh man i am still laughing about that map !

i like that ...don't go there :)

bry623 · 04-19-2006, 09:20 AM

I think that too much emphasis is being placed on proficiency tests. We are only teaching kids enough to get by one test.

newhouse1390 · 04-19-2006, 01:25 PM

Quote:

I think that too much emphasis is being placed on proficiency tests. We are only teaching kids enough to get by one test.

Yes I agree it seems as if all of the teachers in my district are teaching the students how to take the test and not necessarily how to approach the content. All of the teachers from day one make it seem as if the entire year is devoted to going over test question after test question and test strategy to test strategy. Very boring.

ebackhus · 04-19-2006, 01:32 PM

Down here in Texas we've been lamenting that for a while. It seems that with each new school year there is a new test. Our kids aren't taught in the traditional sense, they are taught to memorize and regurgitate information.

bry623 · 04-19-2006, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebackhus

Down here in Texas we've been lamenting that for a while. It seems that with each new school year there is a new test. Our kids aren't taught in the traditional sense, they are taught to memorize and regurgitate information.

In the lone star state, you have been regretting that for some time. There is a new exam for the incoming annual class. Your children do not learn the old fashioned way, they are shown to memorize and spew the facts.

yustr · 04-19-2006, 02:01 PM

Every Child Left Behind

The other issue the author raises is the deplorable pay scale we have for teachers. I looked into it a while back and gave up when the headof personnel said I'd have to get an advanced degree, a teaching credential and then I could take a 70% cut in pay.

It's been said that the true measure of what a government considers important is the budget. I guess we don't think education is very important. (The cost of the war in Iraq could have paid for nearly 5,500,000 school teachers or build 35,000 new schools or paid for college for everyone currently enrolled plus all those who'll enroll for the next 5 years.)

ebackhus · 04-19-2006, 03:48 PM

Yustr, if that's true what you say about the war being able to pay for all of that... I don't know. It's damned rediculous.

newhouse1390 · 04-19-2006, 08:01 PM

Quote:

It's been said that the true measure of what a government considers important is the budget. I guess we don't think education is very important. (The cost of the war in Iraq could have paid for nearly 5,500,000 school teachers or build 35,000 new schools or paid for college for everyone currently enrolled plus all those who'll enroll for the next 5 years.)

Our nations stance in the world and our National Security does come before our education, without defense where would we be, let alone our education?

**forcifer** · 04-19-2006, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bry623

I think that too much emphasis is being placed on proficiency tests. We are only teaching kids enough to get by one test.

not me lol. for private schools at least, they actually teach you (at least in kansas)

yustr · 04-19-2006, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newhouse1390

... without defense where would we be, let alone our education?

We'd be a country of idiots with nukes.

ebackhus · 04-20-2006, 08:10 AM

A-f'in-men.

04-20-2006, 08:23 AM

People should understand that this wild of a capitalism will not care about them ! Its all about their money and our education, health or security doesnt really mean anything to them. They are looking for excuses to use in their own favor. Education wont benefit them but will be an obstacle. Nothing to expect. Very simple rule of life : You get what you deserve. French did not eat cake when they didnt have bread.

bry623 · 04-20-2006, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yustr

Every Child Left Behind

(The cost of the war in Iraq could have paid for nearly 5,500,000 school teachers or build 35,000 new schools or paid for college for everyone currently enrolled plus all those who'll enroll for the next 5 years.)

Where have I heard this before??

Anyone?

Hmmmm, let me think. Oh yeah! It was one of John Kerry and/or moveon's anti-Bush talking points in 2004.

Iraq has nothing to do with education and the dumbing down of America.

It all has to do with teachers and administrators worrying to much about test scores and political correctness to worry about the teaching.

04-18-2006, 02:01 PM	#2 (permalink)
ebackhus Manager, Design Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: SATX Posts: 14,262 OS: WinXP Pro SP3/Windows 7 RTM My System Blog Entries: 28	Not teaching from a book. It's a good idea! When I was in HS we had plenty of classes where we just discussed things. Every student could input something which lead to everyone learning despite neve having taken notes, listened to lecture, or even open a book. __________________ ----------------------------- There are no dumb questions, unless a customer is asking them. Help in the fight against cancer and other serious illnesses.

04-18-2006, 04:12 PM	#4 (permalink)
ebackhus Manager, Design Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: SATX Posts: 14,262 OS: WinXP Pro SP3/Windows 7 RTM My System Blog Entries: 28	http://zen.chakuriki.net/world/ __________________ ----------------------------- There are no dumb questions, unless a customer is asking them. Help in the fight against cancer and other serious illnesses.

04-18-2006, 05:02 PM	#5 (permalink)
devil lady Tech, Design Team Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Tasmania, Australia Posts: 962 OS: XP SP2 My System	What a shame, I was going to comment and submit on that Zen map but all I get is an error. That is unbelievable when you read the revisions the map has taken. Are there really people that uneducated? __________________ . HiJackThis Everest Home Edition Ad Aware Spybot S & D Ewido online scan Spyware Blaster

04-18-2006, 05:43 PM	#6 (permalink)
ebackhus Manager, Design Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: SATX Posts: 14,262 OS: WinXP Pro SP3/Windows 7 RTM My System Blog Entries: 28	Yes! You'd be surprised how many idiots there are! I don't know if you get to see Jay Leno down in Aussie Land, but he does this little segment called "Jay Walking" where he asks people about current events and stuff. Really gives you an idea for the state of things... __________________ ----------------------------- There are no dumb questions, unless a customer is asking them. Help in the fight against cancer and other serious illnesses.

04-19-2006, 08:46 AM	#8 (permalink)
mimo2005 Manager, Emeritus Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 11,142 OS: xp	purplesky : Thank you for the laugh ..oh man i am still laughing about that map ! i like that ...don't go there :) __________________ TSF has outgrown its server, again. Please help "Gutta cavat lapidem, non vi sed saepe cadendo"

04-18-2006, 06:13 PM	#7 (permalink)
bruiser TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,973 OS: xp	Hannity does a "man on the street" segment on his radio show. Usually asks questions of college age people. Really simple questions like "who is the President", "who is the Vice-President", "who is Condi Rice", "who is Harry Reid", you get the drift. The majority of people can't answer one of the questions.

04-19-2006, 09:20 AM	#9 (permalink)
bry623 Manager, The Conversation Pit/Analyst, Security Team Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: NW Territory circa 1787 Posts: 11,692 OS: winxp pro sp2	I think that too much emphasis is being placed on proficiency tests. We are only teaching kids enough to get by one test. __________________ "If you aren't a liberal when you're 20, you have no heart. If you aren't a conservative when you are 50, you have no brain"

04-19-2006, 01:32 PM	#11 (permalink)
ebackhus Manager, Design Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: SATX Posts: 14,262 OS: WinXP Pro SP3/Windows 7 RTM My System Blog Entries: 28	Down here in Texas we've been lamenting that for a while. It seems that with each new school year there is a new test. Our kids aren't taught in the traditional sense, they are taught to memorize and regurgitate information. __________________ ----------------------------- There are no dumb questions, unless a customer is asking them. Help in the fight against cancer and other serious illnesses.

04-19-2006, 02:01 PM	#13 (permalink)
yustr Asst. Manager, The Conversation Pit Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Connecticut shore Posts: 6,049 OS: XP Pro My System	Every Child Left Behind The other issue the author raises is the deplorable pay scale we have for teachers. I looked into it a while back and gave up when the headof personnel said I'd have to get an advanced degree, a teaching credential and then I could take a 70% cut in pay. It's been said that the true measure of what a government considers important is the budget. I guess we don't think education is very important. (The cost of the war in Iraq could have paid for nearly 5,500,000 school teachers or build 35,000 new schools or paid for college for everyone currently enrolled plus all those who'll enroll for the next 5 years.) __________________ If there are lawyers or politicians involved, logic may be a very poor tool for reaching a conclusion.

04-19-2006, 03:48 PM	#14 (permalink)
ebackhus Manager, Design Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: SATX Posts: 14,262 OS: WinXP Pro SP3/Windows 7 RTM My System Blog Entries: 28	Yustr, if that's true what you say about the war being able to pay for all of that... I don't know. It's damned rediculous. __________________ ----------------------------- There are no dumb questions, unless a customer is asking them. Help in the fight against cancer and other serious illnesses.

04-20-2006, 08:10 AM	#18 (permalink)
ebackhus Manager, Design Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: SATX Posts: 14,262 OS: WinXP Pro SP3/Windows 7 RTM My System Blog Entries: 28	A-f'in-men. __________________ ----------------------------- There are no dumb questions, unless a customer is asking them. Help in the fight against cancer and other serious illnesses.

04-20-2006, 08:23 AM	#19 (permalink)
PurpleSky Guest Posts: n/a OS:	People should understand that this wild of a capitalism will not care about them ! Its all about their money and our education, health or security doesnt really mean anything to them. They are looking for excuses to use in their own favor. Education wont benefit them but will be an obstacle. Nothing to expect. Very simple rule of life : You get what you deserve. French did not eat cake when they didnt have bread.