djaburg

The presidential election is finally over, and it is now time for gun owners to take a careful look at just where President Barack Obama stands on issues related to the Second Amendment. During the primaries, Obama tried to hide behind vague statements of support for “sportsmen” or unfounded claims of general support for the right to keep and bear arms.

But his real record, based on votes taken, political associations, and long standing positions, shows that Barack Obama is a serious threat to Second Amendment liberties. Don’t listen to his campaign rhetoric! Look instead to what he has said and done during his entire political career.
Obama

FACT: Barack Obama opposes four of the five Supreme Court justices who affirmed an individual right to keep and bear arms. He voted against the confirmation of Alito and Roberts and he has stated he would not have appointed Thomas or Scalia.17

FACT: Barack Obama voted for an Illinois State Senate bill to ban and confiscate “assault weapons,” but the bill was so poorly crafted, it would have also banned most semi-auto and single and double barrel shotguns commonly used by sportsmen.18

FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.1

FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.15

FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.3

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a 500% increase in the federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition.9

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.4

FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people
who use firearms in self-defense.5

FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.6

FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case.

FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.7

FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and “research.”8

FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.9

FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.10

FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.11

FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.12

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.13

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used in reckless lawsuits against firearm dealers and manufacturers.14

FACT: Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month handgun purchase restrictions.16

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on inexpensive handguns.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.9

1. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 219, July 29, 2005. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...n=1&vote=00219)

2. Independent Voters of Illinois/Independent Precinct Organization general candidate questionnaire, Sept. 9, 1996. The responses on this survey were described in “Obama had greater role on liberal survey,” Politico, March 31, 2008. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9269.html)

3. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 217, Kennedy amendment July 29, 2005. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...n=1&vote=00217)

4. David Wright, Ursula Fahy and Sunlen Miller, "Obama: `Common Sense Regulation` On Gun Owners` Rights," ABC News` "Political Radar" Blog, http://blogs.abcnews.com, 2/15/08. (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalra...common-se.html)

5. Illinois Senate, SB 2165, March 25, 2004, vote 20 and May 25, 2004, vote 3.

6. “Fact Check: No News In Obama`s Consistent Record.” Obama ’08, December 11, 2007. (http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck...n_obamas_c.php)

7. “Candidates` gun control positions may figure in Pa. vote,” Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Wednesday, April 2, 2008, and "Keyes, Obama Are Far Apart On Guns," Chicago Tribune, 9/15/04. (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_560181.html)

8. 1998 Joyce Foundation Annual Report, p. 7.

9. “Obama and Gun Control,” The Volokh Conspiracy, taken from the Chicago Defender, Dec. 13, 1999. (http://www.volokh.com/posts/1203389334.shtml)

10. Illinois Senate, May 5, 2002, SB 1936 Con., vote 26.

11. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2004, SB 2163, vote 18.

12. “Clinton, Edwards, Obama on gun control,” Radio Iowa, Sunday, April 22, 2007. (http://learfield.typepad.com/radioio...n_edwards.html)

13. Chicago Tribune blogs, “Barack Obama: NIU Shootings call for action,” February 15, 2008, (http://blogs.trb.com/news/politics/b..._on_shoot.html)

14. Barack Obama campaign website: “As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment . . .” (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/ur...aw-enforcement.)

15. Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes (http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Bara...un_Control.htm and http://www.ontheissues.org/IL_2004_Senate_3rd.htm) Oct 21, 2004.

16. Illinois Senate, May 16, 2003, HB 2579, vote 34.

17. United States Senate vote 245, September 29, 2005 and vote 2, January 31, 2006 and Saddleback Forum, August 16, 2008.

18. Illinois Senate Judiciary Committee, March 13, 2003. To see the vote tally go to: http://www.nrapvf.org/Media/pdf/sb1195_obama.pdf.

GoSuNi

I hate Obama....

Rataru101

Whats with the Obama bashing? Some of these I have to agree with even though I dont care much for the president but, see him as a few steps above G.W.

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on inexpensive handguns.
So less income families can't afford guns, good thing considering statistically there is a much higher "gun crime" rate amoungst low income families.


FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.
Why exactly is fire arm safety a problem? And which populous is statistically most inclined to hurt themselves of others with firearms. Minors thats who....


FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment
This is mainly because of ballistic issues. A cop's fire arm may have killed several people or fired shots at nothing and hundereds of rounds could be easily picked up and used to trace this weapon to the owner or previous owner...

FACT: Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month handgun purchase restrictions
Seriously, are you starting a malitia?

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.
I want to shot myself... Damn I have to wait...
I need to kill this guy cause im mad!... Damn I have to wait...

FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.
Oh really... So beacuase a soldier cannot carry his Auto/Semi-Auto fire arm while back home or as a civilian in a foriegn land, that's a bad thing and somehow impacts a soldiers ability to do his job?

FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and “research.”
I think you should look into this foundation and read up on their mission statement.


FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws
Again, I believe you should look this up. He does not oppose all. Mainly the concealed weapons law and statements such as you dont have to to reveal to an officer/cop that you are carrying.

FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.
Knowing who killed you is probly a good thing... Then again... Maybe not.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people
who use firearms in self-defense.
You really must not be reading up on these. It is "Claimed self-defence with no evidence to uphold"

FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.
Look up "highest gun violence" then "highest gun murder rate" Weird how that works....

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.
FOR THE LEGALLY IMPARIED/MENTALLY DISABLED!!!!!!!!


I think you have some reading to do sir...

Again, I am not an Obama supporter...

Jason

It started with the Pistols Act of 1903.

This seemingly reasonable law forbade selling pistols to minors or felons and established that handgun sales were to be made only to those who had a license. The Firearms Act of 1920 expanded licensing to include not only handguns but all firearms except shotguns.

Later laws passed in 1953 and 1967 outlawed the carrying of any weapon by private citizens and mandated the registration of all shotguns.

Momentum for total handgun confiscation began in earnest after the Hungerford mass shooting in 1987. Michael Ryan, a mentally disturbed man with a Kalashnikov rifle, walked down the streets shooting everyone he saw.
When the smoke cleared, 17 people were dead..

The British public, already de-sensitized by eighty years of "gun control", demanded even tougher restrictions. (The seizure of all privately owned handguns was the objective even though Ryan used a rifle.)

Nine years later, at Dunblane , Scotland , Thomas Hamilton used a semi-automatic weapon to murder 16 children and a teacher at a public school.

For many years, the media had portrayed all gun owners as mentally unstable or worse, criminals. Now the press had a real kook with which to beat up law-abiding gun owners. Day after day, week aft er week, the media gave up all pretense of objectivity and demanded a total ban on all handguns. The Dunblane Inquiry, a few months later, sealed the fate of the few sidearms still owned by private citizens.

During the years in which the British government incrementally took away most gun rights, the notion that a citizen had the right to armed self-defense came to be seen as vigilantism. Authorities refused to grant gun licenses to people who were threatened, claiming that self-defense was no longer considered a reason to own a gun. Citizens who shot burglars or robbers or rapists were charged while the real criminals were released.

When the Dunblane Inquiry ended, citizens who owned handguns were given three months to turn them over to local authorities.

Being good British subjects, most people obeyed the law. The few who didn't were visited by police and threatened with ten-year prison sentences if they didn't comply.

Police later bragged that they'd taken nearly 200,000 handguns from private citizens.

How did the authorities know who had handguns?

The guns had been registered and licensed.

Rataru101

No offence, but this isnt the UK. US gun owners wouldnt go so quietly and congress knows as such. No such ban would ever make it. Also, in this instance you cannot have your cake and eat it too. I suppose it is one of those things you have to witness first hand in order to follow. What if a man shot and killed your wife/child/realitive/loved one, and because his weapon wasnt registered, he got away? Would you still believe handguns shouldnt be registered? Who knows... Maybe you truly believe in the cause.

Hats off to ya if it does...

Jason

I'm glad you believe that the citizens in the United States are more willing to stand up for their rights then the citizens of the U.K.
How many people said that alcohol could never be banned from the United States. How many people in England said guns would never be banned?

I've never had a friend, or loved one killed from a gun. However, a quick count, without really thinking and looking, I've lost 5 friends to car accidents. One a hit and run. However, not once was another driver sentenced to any jail time. All vehicles were registered. Although the hit and run driver was never found. Poor example to some though. Too tired to think of another.

Now let me ask you, say you are sitting down eating dinner in a restaurant with your parents. Your state does not allow you to carry in public. A crazed man drives his pickup through the window of the restaurant and starts shooting people. The man did not spray people with bullets, but would walk up to people and shoot them. Your father runs at the man only to get shot. The killer moves on. The cops finally show up, your mom is now holding onto your father, she looks at the cops entering the building as the killer puts the gun to your mothers head and pulls the trigger. You just saw your mother die. Now you had a licensed gun, and you had it in your car. But again, due to state laws, you did not have your gun on you at the time. How would you feel? Well the person that this happened to still is in favor of gun rights, and feels angry at herself that she obeyed the law.

Now one final question. A criminal does not obey the laws. Correct? Why would they obey the law and register their gun? They are already getting them illegally.

Jason

Suzanna Gratia Hupp will live the rest of her life with regret. Had she been carrying her gun the day a madman executed her parents while she cowered helplessly and then fled, she is convinced she could have stopped one of the worst massacres in U.S. history.

She has told the story many times over. Tomorrow she will relate it again before advocates of gun rights in a counter-rally to the Million Mom March. Put yourself in her shoes, she asks, and then think again whether gun control is the answer.

It was October 1991 when an unemployed merchant seaman drove his pickup truck into a Luby's cafeteria in Killeen, Tex., leaped out and opened fire. He killed 23 people and wounded more than 20.

Hupp and her parents were having lunch in the restaurant when the shooting started. Hupp instinctively reached into her purse for her .38-caliber Smith & Wesson, but she had left it in the car. Her father tried to rush the gunman and was shot in the chest. As the gunman reloaded, Hupp escaped through a broken window, thinking her
mother was behind her.

But Hupp's mother had crawled alongside her dying husband of 47 years to cushion his head in her lap. Police later told Hupp they saw her mother look up at the gunman standing over her, then bow down before he shot her in the head.

"I'd like people to think about what happened to me, and try to place themselves in that situation," Hupp said yesterday between a string of interviews in which she relived the tragedy as Exhibit A in her argument against restrictive gun laws. "Now, instead of thinking of their parents, have it be their children.

"Even if you choose not to have a gun, as the bad guy who ignored all the laws is getting close to you and as he levels that firearm at one of your children, don't you hope the person next to you has chosen to carry a gun and knows how to use it?"

The story is powerful, and not only because the question assaults the brain and invites no easy answers. With its implied alternative of an armed Hupp gunning down the bad guy before he gets too far, the story invokes the American legend of the frontier lawman who acts alone to thwart evil.

Unable to don that mantle when it could have saved her parents, Hupp, now 40, has been trying ever since to rally people against gun control.

When Texas debated the issue of concealed weapons in 1995, she strolled around the table at a committee hearing molding her fingers into a gun that she aimed at state senators. The next year, she ran as a Republican and won election as a state representative, an office she still holds.

She has promoted other issues, such as water rights. But her personal story trumps all other issues. For years, the National Rifle Association paid her expenses as she traveled the country testifying in favor of gun rights. Her story always commands attention. Before the massacre at Luby's cafeteria, nothing in Hupp's background suggested that she would become so closely associated with gun rights.

She was raised in central Texas, the middle of three children. Her father, Al, owned a heavy equipment store. Her mother, Ursula, was a homemaker.

Al Gratia was a man so gentle he didn't hunt and even quit fishing because he didn't want to hurt the fish. But he owned a BB gun, and taught his children how to shoot and practice gun safety. After Hupp's brother shot and killed a dove, however, no one in the family ever used the gun again.

As a child, Hupp was a victim of careless gun use. When she was 11, she was fishing with her brother and some friends when one of the youths handed a pellet gun to another youth and it went off. Hupp has a two-inch-long scar near her right elbow where the pellet entered her skin and had to be dug out.

After getting a degree as a chiropractor in 1985, she moved to Houston. An assistant district attorney who was a patient suggested she carry a gun as self-defense in the big city.

She argued against it, partly because it was then illegal to carry a concealed weapon in Texas.

"Better to be tried by 12 than carried by six," she recalls her patient advising her. Another friend gave her a pistol as a gift and taught her how to shoot it.

She carried it in her purse. But, afraid of losing her chiropractic license if she were arrested for carrying a concealed weapon, she often kept it beneath the passenger seat of her car.

That's where it was, 150 feet from Hupp's grasp, the day George Hennard burst into Luby's. The what-ifs haunt her. Hennard stood barely 10 feet from her. He was up, she was down. She had clear aim. The upturned table would have steadied her hand. Though not a crack shot, she had hit smaller targets from farther distances.

"The point is, people like this--no, scumbags like this; I won't put them in the people category--are looking for easy targets," said Hupp. "That's why we see things occurring at schools, post offices, churches and cafeterias in states that don't allow concealed carrying."

Nothing sways her. After the 1999 shooting at Columbine High School, Hupp seemed to suggest that teachers should carry concealed weapons. She insists that what she said was something different:

"I wanted to know why the state treats teachers like second-class citizens, when plumbers and doctors are allowed to protect themselves on the job," she said. "I would be happier sending my child to a school where a teacher whom I trust is armed and well prepared."

She is equally oblique when talking about places where guns are banned. Even in Texas, which began allowing concealed weapons in 1996, guns are banned from several types of establishments, including churches, sports arenas, government offices, courts, airports and restaurants serving alcohol. Hupp refuses to say outright that she believes people should be allowed to carry guns to church. She picks her words carefully.

"We have created a shopping list for madmen," she said. "If guns are the problem, why don't we see things occurring at skeet and trap shoots, at gun shows, at NRA conventions? We only see it where guns aren't allowed. The sign of a gun with a slash through it is like a neon sign for gunmen, 'We're unarmed. Come kill us.' "

To Hupp, the right to bear arms is a family issue. Her two sons will grow up learning to defend themselves with a gun. The elder son, 4, has been taught gun safety and has fired his first shot.

"A gun can be used to kill a family, or defend a family," Hupp said. "I've lived what gun laws do. My parents died because of what gun laws do. I'm the quintessential soccer mom, and I want the right to protect my family. What happened to my parents will never happen again with my kids there."

Warning
The second half, around 5:30 cuts into Penn & Teller show with her talking. There may be some fowl language.
YouTube - Suzanna Gratia Hupp explains meaning of 2nd Amendment

Rataru101

Very different story guy. It isnt a question of carrying the gun its whether or not its registered. A registered firearm can be tracked and so could a car if proper time was put into it. Accidents happen, why were they killed? Where they dancing in the street? Playing chicken? drunk driving?
Also, yes there may have been prohabition but look how that turned out. The people in mass were not having it and thus arose the MOB. (Thank you very much congress...)

As for your little senario, the question wasnt whether I could have a concealed weapon, it's whether or not is had to be registered. If every gun purchased was registered then so was the killers. Even though he would have been killed had he not of been, he would have been cuaght because of it. You play this senario as if it were the only one. Let me try.

You are in a park with your family with your 9mm tucked inside your jacket. You are legally allowed to under your states law so there is no reason to leave it behind any more. Your son is playing on the swing and your wife is tending to your baby in the stroller. You spot a hot dog stand and make your way to it leavign your jacket behind on the bench. Since you are in the park, three 10 year olds happen to walk by and spot the gun handle sticking out of your pocket and investigate. One boys is brave and pulls the gun out only to shoot his freind in the face and as the bullet exits, peirces through the stroller and kills your new born aswell. The 10 year old goes to juvey till he is 18 and serves a mandatory 12 months in prison becuase you were carrying. How would you feel?

Jason

As this never happened to me, I answered with someone who had gone through the experience.

The hit and run, my friend was on a bicycle. Another one a 16 year old (legal age to have a full license in the state of Florida at the time) girl swerved (we believe she was on a cell phone) into the lane of my friend. He turned the car to take the brunt of the impact as there was a pregnant lady in the front and two friends in the back. The only one that I think was stupid related was a friend on a dirt bike hit a water drain (if I remember correctly) lost control and crashed into a telephone poll. And a sixth, if you wish to count it, is a friend lost her child in her 2nd trimester. A miscarriage after the accident of someone running a stop sign.

Vehicle accidents kill more people then guns. Where are the stricter car laws?

[/quote]


You are in a park with your family with your 9mm tucked inside your jacket. You are legally allowed to under your states law so there is no reason to leave it behind any more. Your son is playing on the swing and your wife is tending to your baby in the stroller. You spot a hot dog stand and make your way to it leavign your jacket behind on the bench. Since you are in the park, three 10 year olds happen to walk by and spot the gun handle sticking out of your pocket and investigate. One boys is brave and pulls the gun out only to shoot his freind in the face and as the bullet exits, peirces through the stroller and kills your new born aswell. The 10 year old goes to juvey till he is 18 and serves a mandatory 12 months in prison becuase you were carrying. How would you feel?[/quote]

I would feel the adult should go to jail for carelessly carrying the weapon. Sort of like if you left your keys in your vehicle and the kid gets in and takes off in the car and runs over another kid. But are people screaming at capital hill when things like that happen? That situation can play out many ways. What if it was a knife and he cuts his friend? Should we outlaw knifes too? Look at the college student who killed two people with a sword. Should we outlaw them? What about registering them? In which case I have about 8 deadly weapons hanging on my wall. Those are designed for one purpose, to attack someone.

Again, and I cannot make this any clearer. What makes you think a criminal is going to buy a gun legally and register it? If that is the case, explain all the Cribs and Bloods in L.A. who are under age, have a criminal record, and have guns? Gun registration will mean nothing to criminals until they find a way to get the list so they know who they can rob. They already do not obey the law, what is going to make them start.

Rataru101

Wah wah, lets find a tragedy and make it our front. Lets disect it a bit. How did the man get the gun. Illegally or legally?

"For years, the National Rifle Association paid her expenses as she traveled the country testifying in favor of gun rights." Bias much?

"That's why we see things occurring at schools, post offices, churches and cafeterias in states that don't allow concealed carrying." *** are you talking about? This **** happens all the time, EVERYWHERE! Even in states that allow concealed carrying. This article is almost painful to read. It is so clearly bias and "paid for" that it actually puts idea a step back in my mind. It is basically telling you how the fire arm reps just want your money.... Comon...

"I wanted to know why the state treats teachers like second-class citizens, when plumbers and doctors are allowed to protect themselves on the job," she said. "I would be happier sending my child to a school where a teacher whom I trust is armed and well prepared."
JESUS ******* CHRIST are you kidding me??????? holy ****! yea lets arm the teachers so that when they put their guns in the drawers/purses/breifcases, the students can grab them and shoot another student.

STATISTICALLY! It is more likely that will happen then ANYONE will "save the day" becuase they had a concealed weapon gun.


"why don't we see things occurring at skeet and trap shoots, at gun shows, at NRA conventions?" YOU DO! They are called FIRE ARM ACCIDENTS and HAPPEN EVERY DAY!!!!

Wow, this article says alot about someone. mainly that there is a differnce between ignorant vengence and resortful safety.

Vatar

Well Rataru you provide an example of poor judgment on the part of the gun owner, and poor gun education on the part of the 10 year old.
I grew up in Vermont and we have almost no gun laws yet we have some of the lowest gun related crimes. In a large part this is due to the rural nature of the State. When I was five years old my father gave me a .22 caliber rifle for my birthday he brought me too the field behind our house and taught me how to fire a rifle. By the time I was 7 I had passed hunters saftey courses and I had already shot about 200 rounds through a 9mm. The point I am trying to make is that accidental gun violence CAN BE AVOIDED with proper education but premeditate gun violence will always happen if a person is sick enough to want to take another human beings life.

Rataru101

According to Statistics, Facts and Quotes there were 30,694 gun-related deaths in the US in 2005 vs Fatal Car Accident, Crash Statistics: Stats Auto, Traffic, Car, Collision, Traffic showing 43,443 vehicular fatalties that same year. So guns overall are about 71% as deadly as vehicles. Though, number of gun owners is slightly 62% less then that compared to car owners.

There are your facts. There are 62% less guns and 71% the same amount of deaths related. In other words, if there were the same number of guns flying around at any given time as there are cars. Gun would win in deaths 2/1....

Vatar

You cant compare apples to oranges

Rataru101

That very well may be, but the author just bashed Obama for agreeing with the manditory safety training. Also I would like to point out the any number of videos showing safety instrutors shooting themselves while instructing gun safety... The point I'M trying to make is accidents are just that, and they happen. But I must go back to my orignal statment of "this a situation where you cannot have your cake and eat it too." There is always going to be an equal and opposite faction and therefore this argument should only be continued for the sake of argument....

Rataru101

Oh good point, your gun activist brethren shouldnt have brought it up... =P

Vatar

lol well I don't agree with the Obama bashing but I think instead of trying to take the guns out of law abiding citizens hands the government should be trying to stop illegal and black market guns from getting onto our streets.

Vatar

Oh and for those that think a waiting period and registration is a bad thing. One of my former friends held a gun to his girlfriends head and tied her up because he thought she was cheating on him. He was convicted of domestic assault. I think the world is a better place because he can never legally own another gun ever.

Rataru101

You mean kind of like the Joyce Foundation? Weird....

Vatar

Well the Joyce foundation is a private entity I was talking government action to educate gun owners and crack down on black market gun running. Besides the Joyce Foundation is a little anti hand gun that doesn't sit well with me.

Jason

Links to your source?

I would still like you to answer what makes you think criminals will comply with the registration law. I'm not arguing gun safety. So answer the questions.

Sadly, I feel you have your mind made up though. Nothing will change that mind. I have some time left before the wife and kid get home, and wish to relax as it has been a long day. Maybe tomorrow I'll pick up the debate with you. But as they have not cracked down on flavored cigars (although the new law they just passed includes flavored cigars, along with the cigarettes. Huh, who would have thought it just a few years ago that flavored cigars would be illegal to be sold), I'm going to see if I cannot purchase another box of my Whiskey cigars, and then go outside and enjoy one, while that is still legal. Have a great night, and nice debating with you. Good luck on your future journey.

As you slide down the banister of life,
May the splinters never point the wrong way!