Jason

WASHINGTON — Confronted with big job losses and no sign the U.S. economy is ready to stand on its own, Democrats are working on a growing list of relief efforts, leaving for later how to pay for them, or whether even to bother.

Proposals include extending and perhaps expanding a popular tax credit for first-time home buyers, and creating a new credit for companies that add jobs. Taken together, the proposals look a lot like another economic stimulus package, though congressional leaders don't want to call it that.

Democratic leaders in Congress and the White House say they have no appetite for another big spending package that adds to the federal budget deficit, which hit a record $1.4 trillion for the budget year that ended last week.

But with unemployment reaching nearly 10 percent, many lawmakers are feeling pressure to act. Some of the proposals come from the Republicans' playbook and focus on tax cuts, even though they, too, would swell the deficit.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...BJTKgD9B770B00

Drew1369

When the first one doesn't work, start another, when that one doesn't work... create a third...

and when that one doesn't work?

Canaanabolaanan

But when the first one works, and more is needed, add another. And when more is still needed, add a third.

And when more is needed?

simpswr

. . and the Republican alternative proposal is? . . .

simpswr

I guess it is hung up in the que behind all the Republican Bills on Health Care Reform?

Drew1369

To stop this freaking spending

and canaana... what stimulus has worked... Bushes hasn't, Obama's has failed at stemming the tide...

so what is it?

simpswr

. . To just say NO! . . I understand

but whee is their bill?? Are we jsut sitting around waiting for something to say no to?

Canaanabolaanan

Snore. I know the meat puppets you get your news from have brainwashed you into thinking that anything short of an immediately thriving economy as a consequence of a stimulus package can be termed a failure. But that just means you don't understand the term. Sure, you can pretend that the economy is in complete free fall as it was months ago. But the stimulus is creating jobs, repairing America, and protecting families in need. Maybe compared to seeing the invasion of countries as success, this might look like failure. But this is actually the process of rebuilding your own nation - a concept not seen in so long, it may actually seem foreign.

Feel free to thumb through here and label each of the charts, tables, news stories and releases a failure:

http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.js...=NSF&from=news

Actually, I don't know if there's a real reason for a second stimulus. There's still a lot of money to be awarded and jobs to be created from the first one that they should focus on. And perhaps in hindsight it's easy to say that they could have replaced items from the first one with those they want to draft in this next one. But it was indeed rushed, and I don't suspect it was the most optimized bill ever written. Accepting these faults, this in no way condemns the effects of the first stimulus as a failure, especially since its aim is well beyond the 9 months its been signed into law. That's like designating any business a failure before it has even seen its first return.

grimx133

Don't be taking the Meat Puppets name in vain. They had a few good tunes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meat_Puppets

djaburg

Ahh...so the success of the stimulus bill can be measured by a single entity? They received quite a bit of money and as best I can tell they do research and don't necessarily create lot's of job opportunities for most people. They were awarded 3 BILLION dollars for their research projects. I'm certainly not opposed to research, but 3 BILLION dollars of tax payer money? Do you think the average person would say that it was a good use of funds? I do realize that many liberals in this country feel they are intellectually superior to everyone else, but 3 Billion dollars could have provided lots of health care for lots of people, don't ya think?

Canaanabolaanan

I don't know which specific example to which you refer, regarding the $3B. And success, I would argue, is measured on a linear scale, not just the polar ends of either total success or abject failure.

You're right. I don't believe success is measured by a single entity. Thus to say the economy hasn't already completely recovered constitutes failure seems premature at best, and completely ignores the totality of its results, accomplished, in progress, and in the future.

Likewise, judging whether $3B is a good way to spend tax payer dollars is subjective, first off. And the measuring scale here is also linear. I think it's foolish to label all "pork barrel projects" as bad, wasteful, etc., or the opposite, without taking into account a full view of what it is about and what it can and is likely to do.

Drew1369

If we dont pass this stimulus bill NOW unemployment will rise past 8%...

what are we at now?

djaburg

It's interesting that you don't know what example I'm speaking of since it's the one YOU provided a link to...hmmm.

Tsona

who has a problem with this? i think its a great idea. the fact that its about to end is very very saddening to me. i loved the first time home buyers credit because it pushes the youth of our nation in a great direction.

djaburg

In the grand scheme of things, I'm sure there are some things about each of the stimulus packages that helped people. The fact that even the people that actually had a say in its passing didn't have time to read it has caused much mistrust of what's going to be pushed through with the next one.

Specifically addressing the home buyer credit, I agree it's a good thing PROVIDING people aren't doing what they did her in CA. Many people were taking adjustable rate mortgages at extremely low rates for homes they couldn't possibly afford otherwise and then when the rates changed they could no longer afford the payments. The unfortunate thing was with the impending collapse of that market the housing prices plummeted and left many people upside down on their homes. It's just like my father used to tell me about many things....just because you can, doesn't mean you should. I'd like to see a provision that people taking advantage of the government program also need to attend some kind of financial seminar or something to open their eyes to what could happen if they make a poor choice. Unfortunately with the victim mentality prevalent in our country today (just like all the "you have a right to reduce your debt" commercials) people feel that its not their fault when they make stupid financial decisions. But that's for another topic...

Canaanabolaanan

Lol, oh snap. It was a side link I was checking out from here, which I meant to post. Must have copied the wrong tab/url address -
http://www.recovery.gov/Pages/home.aspx

^ this is what I meant to "thumb through."

yustr

I am in the process of refinancing my house and the lender was very explicit in its paperwork - including making me acknowledge that I had read a 50 page booklet explaining the different types of loans and the possible ramifications of each. Now, how many people actually do (or can?) read it and of those how many understand and of those how many care?

One thing not being mentioned is changing how the whole real estate industry works. If you're paid by commission, as nearly everyone in the RE food chain is, its in your best interest to push people up the ladder as much as you can. How many of us heard our realtor tell us: "Yes its a stretch now but its a 30 year mortgage and you'll certainly get some raises in the next few years so its not always going to be so tough to pay that amount. I think its a great deal and you should go for it."

They're happy to sell it to you regardless if you can't pay. Until the house of cards came tumbling down on top of them....too.

djaburg

While I agree that the motivation by the agent is commission, it's ultimately the BUYER'S responsibility to know what they're getting in to. Your example is a realistic look at what's presented to buyers, however, if someone doesn't understand what they're signing, why would they sign it? Yes, I understand that they just want the transaction to be done with and just like when I purchased my house 13 years ago, I know there's lot's of paperwork that seems overwhelming. I didn't know much about the forms and terminology of the real estate transaction, but since I knew that I didn't know, I sought out the assistance of someone that did. It's the buyers responsibility to know what they're getting in to. If you find that the agent was misrepresenting something, then they should be held accountable for that.

Chode

[quote=Drew1369;2384088]To stop this freaking spending/QUOTE]

You mean like Republicans did under Reagan or the Bushes? Oops! I guess I'm confusing revenue and spending.

djaburg

So are you saying that spending went down during Clinton's administration? or Ford's? Or Carter's?