Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage

**Jason** · 07-07-2009, 06:41 PM

WASHINGTON – Americans who refuse to buy affordable medical coverage could be hit with fines of more than $1,000 under a health care overhaul bill unveiled Thursday by key Senate Democrats looking to fulfill President Barack Obama's top domestic priority.

The Congressional Budget Office estimated the fines will raise around $36 billion over 10 years. Senate aides said the penalties would be modeled on the approach taken by Massachusetts, which now imposes a fine of about $1,000 a year on individuals who refuse to get coverage. Under the federal legislation, families would pay higher penalties than individuals.

In a revamped health care system envisioned by lawmakers, people would be required to carry health insurance just like motorists must get auto coverage now. The government would provide subsidies for the poor and many middle-class families, but those who still refuse to sign up would face penalties.

Called "shared responsibility payments," the fines would be set at least half the cost of basic medical coverage, according to the legislation.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090702/..._care_overhaul

**manic** · 07-07-2009, 08:24 PM

I wonder where they get this from..
In 2008, employer-provided coverage averaged $12,680 a year for a family plan, and $4,704 for individual coverage.
No employer that Ive ever heard of in my life pays that much for a
a employees insurance. The company takes the money out of the
employees check, if they opt for it. From the article I dont like it, I
would have to see some actual numbers....I believe about 1/16th of
what I read, if that....

bry623 · 07-08-2009, 06:56 AM

Isn't part of being an American, having the right to refuse?

**Drew1369** · 07-08-2009, 01:43 PM

Not anymore Bry...

**simpswr** · 07-08-2009, 03:47 PM

What was the Rebublican alternative they proposed ??

Tumbleweed36 · 07-08-2009, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bry623

Isn't part of being an American, having the right to refuse?

Change you can believe in.

**Drew1369** · 07-08-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simpswr

What was the Rebublican alternative they proposed ??

How about no proposal... how about not letting the government get involved... is that what you want simpswr?

You want the government to make your choices for you?

Thats what the republican proposal is... none! Which is a far better choice imo

**simpswr** · 07-08-2009, 04:57 PM

Where have you seen this proposal?? . . Where has it been artuclated?? . . that is my point . . we are just sitting around twiddling our thumbs yelling NO and Never . . instead of developing a viable alternative.

The majority of voters clearly want something done . . the last election showed that.

Frankly, I am on Government Health Plan now . . (Medicare). Have been on it for 2 years and have yet to be told who I can see or what they can prescribe.

Mitch McConnell was on TV last month lobbying against the Democrat budget . . he was asked " Will the Republicans present there budget tomorrow"?

Answer . . No! . . and he looked forrified that anyone would thenk he would!!

We'll sit around, twiddling our thumbs and yelling No and Never at every Democtatic proposal and when the election rolls around, try to "stand or our record" and convince those voters who last voted with their middle finger that they should now vote for us.

What are we thinking???

**manic** · 07-08-2009, 05:08 PM

Dont waste your breath Simpswr, not worth it. Brainwashed so called
conservatives. Your beatin a dead horse, there is no room for give and
take with the like..only hate, and double talk...
Still would like to know the Reps definition of a conservative..
You will never get a straight answer.....

**Drew1369** · 07-09-2009, 01:17 AM

Yes except for the republicans that were reelected.. apparently they were still doing their jobs correctly in their districts...

No and Never are perfect answers to many when it comes to raising our taxes...

They have come out with options... MANY times... have YOU taken the time to look for them? Or are you waiting for CNN or Fox to do it for you?

I'll help...

Here's one

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/06/...e.health.care/

Here's another

http://spectator.org/archives/2009/0...ealth-care-alt

Heres one from MSNBC...

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archi...7/1968492.aspx

All there... got to love google ehh?

**simpswr** · 07-09-2009, 07:29 AM

Why does this current brand of Republicans feel the need to attack anyone ( even one of their own ) who questions the actions of the party?? Why are we so incapable of open and honest discussion??

And we wonder why we are turnning off voters!!

This rather bland proposal is at least a good start . . but why are we not out in public every chance we have explaining our alternative? Where is the Newt Gingrich of the 90's when we need him?

Are we depending on Google searches to get the message out? Do we expect voters to look to our house organs ( Spectator for crying out loud???) for information.

There is an old saying :

"Persons desireous of obtaining milk should not sit in the pasture waiting for a cow to come by"

We need to get off our selfrighteous butts . . listen to what the voters were telling us last November and build on that.

"Stay the course" is not a action plan!

ddrfan · 07-09-2009, 12:42 PM

the reps seem kind of scared to spread whatever alternative they may have further than their home base of fox news

I think, partly, it's because of this that much of the people, including me, don't really know that there actually was another plan out there being considered

like simpswr said, we are being turned off from the aggressive republicans out there, I know I am, they need to take a chill pill, and be willing to discuss this issue like the civil people they can be, hopefully, before they can effectively get their message to the people

it's hard to listen to someone yelling at the top of their lungs so their voice will be heard, but it's even harder if they just whisper along the nets, as it is so very vast and infinite

**Drew1369** · 07-09-2009, 01:09 PM

They do trumpet their plans every time... one has to just unplug their ears to hear that they are getting the word out... what the news decides to run is up to them...

Ive heard their proposals all the time on the media networks... apparently some are so turned off to that fact and are just screaming the party line "the republicans aren't coming up with their own plans!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Yes they are, they have been doing it since the begining...

ddrfan · 07-09-2009, 01:35 PM

I apologize, I do tend to watch the news when I can, yet have not heard of any republican alternative until I saw it here. and the only thing I plug my ears to is fox news, I'm not too big a fan of people yelling at eachother because they disagree about something :/

that and although I may have a liberal leaning, I don't belong in any party or necessarily support them the major ones seem too much like the company I work for and too extreme for comfort

**simpswr** · 07-09-2009, 06:11 PM

Dang Drew . . I think you have saved me a lot of money . . I can quit advertising the business and put up a sign in the back yard, behind the garage, and when a potential client tells me they could not nind me, I'll yell at them for not breaking the chain fence and looking behind the garage.

So dang simple when you think it thru from the right perspective!!

Whoo BoY . . I can save a lot of cash!!!

**Drew1369** · 07-09-2009, 08:28 PM

I hear it on the news... they have advertisments on TV talking about the plan with an internet address on the screen... I have seen it on the scifi channel, ABC, NBC, CBS, USAnetwork, etc, etc, etc... shall I continue?

I have seen it once on a billboard in WA on I-5...

Whats you problem here?

What has you blind to it?

What has you deaf to it?

The signs are in the front yard... you just have to open your eyes...

Yes, the republican party might have disenfranchised you... they have done that to alot of us... dont let your hate blind you to the facts that they do come out with alternatives... that they are trumpeting it up to the public...

ddrfan · 07-10-2009, 12:10 AM

maybe they show commercials and talk about it on the news there in Washington, but honestly here in the San Joaquin Valley there have not been any advertisements, that I've seen, or billboards around town... but maybe our news is a little more focused on Cali's budget woes instead. I apologize if I seem to have blocked it out, but there really hasn't been much said about it here

maybe they are focusing more of their attention to larger cities or something, Seattle must be like five times larger than the town I live in

**manic** · 07-10-2009, 01:23 AM

Its the same here in central Florida,,all you hear is negative propaganda
coming from the right. My ears are not plugged, its always the same ole
story with the repub's, spin control. I listen to both sides, Im registered
NPA. Ive voted for both dem's and rep's, but with all of the hate and
lies coming from the right,makes me sick. They all lie, and decieve but
give me a break, the repub's have went way over the top. They have
no viable answers so they start the finger pointing, and the lieing,,and
the public sees it, its embarrasing.

San Joaquin Valley huh? been along time, I was raised there,,,
Visalia,,loved that place, until the crime ran me out....lol

ddrfan · 07-10-2009, 02:26 AM

here with just the local news, all you hear is the stuff making the most noise or what is the most relevant to the the people in the valley, which makes sense. We tend to get the short versions the fresno stations send out, with no real mention, that I can think of anyway, of any republican health plan, except during the last election and even then it was limited on both sides.

plus at least the only thing the local news seems to be biased about it the weather :/

though some republicans may be making noise, it doesn't seem like enough to spread to many of the non-major cities

also, the fact that they have put off so many people probably doesn't help when they try to rally against the proposed dem health plan, or even for their own alternative plan

and back to the original topic, though it's good to have health insurance, it is ridiculous to expect people to pay a fine if they can't or refuse to get it

btw- I would have thought crime here in Merced would have been a little worse than Visalia-lol

**simpswr** · 07-10-2009, 06:47 AM

Well . . The wife wanted to talk about this new marketing strategy Drew and I came up with . . I rose up in righteous indignation . . yelled at her real good . . told her that she needed to support the troops . . stay the course . . and be a Maverick. She told me I needed to resign to save the good people of Alaska from any further embarrasment!

She walked away with that look on her face that you see anyone who has listened to a Sara Palin speech . .

I'm not sure this is gonna work!!

07-07-2009, 06:41 PM	#1 (permalink)
Jason Faugh a ballagh Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Pasco, FL Posts: 8,475 OS: Windows Vista My System Blog Entries: 2	Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage WASHINGTON – Americans who refuse to buy affordable medical coverage could be hit with fines of more than $1,000 under a health care overhaul bill unveiled Thursday by key Senate Democrats looking to fulfill President Barack Obama's top domestic priority. The Congressional Budget Office estimated the fines will raise around $36 billion over 10 years. Senate aides said the penalties would be modeled on the approach taken by Massachusetts, which now imposes a fine of about $1,000 a year on individuals who refuse to get coverage. Under the federal legislation, families would pay higher penalties than individuals. In a revamped health care system envisioned by lawmakers, people would be required to carry health insurance just like motorists must get auto coverage now. The government would provide subsidies for the poor and many middle-class families, but those who still refuse to sign up would face penalties. Called "shared responsibility payments," the fines would be set at least half the cost of basic medical coverage, according to the legislation. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090702/..._care_overhaul __________________ Posting Tips \| Advice for New People \| Common Fixes \| Agus na damnaithe fágtha gan focal Glaoigh ormsa i measc na naomh

07-07-2009, 08:24 PM	#2 (permalink)
manic Mod Hardware Team Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 5,238 OS: xp	Re: Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage I wonder where they get this from.. In 2008, employer-provided coverage averaged $12,680 a year for a family plan, and $4,704 for individual coverage. No employer that Ive ever heard of in my life pays that much for a a employees insurance. The company takes the money out of the employees check, if they opt for it. From the article I dont like it, I would have to see some actual numbers....I believe about 1/16th of what I read, if that.... __________________

07-08-2009, 06:56 AM	#3 (permalink)
bry623 Manager, The Conversation Pit/Analyst, Security Team Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: NW Territory circa 1787 Posts: 11,692 OS: winxp pro sp2	Re: Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage Isn't part of being an American, having the right to refuse? __________________ "If you aren't a liberal when you're 20, you have no heart. If you aren't a conservative when you are 50, you have no brain"

07-08-2009, 01:43 PM	#4 (permalink)
Drew1369 Moderator Relaxation Room Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Seattle, WA, USA Posts: 3,425 OS: Win7 Ultimate	Re: Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage Not anymore Bry... __________________ We humans have a primal urge to kill because, thanks to natural selection, all the homo sapiens who didn't have a primal urge to kill, were themselves killed. http://obamaclock.org/

07-08-2009, 03:47 PM	#5 (permalink)
simpswr Moderator Hardware Team Join Date: May 2007 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 12,206 OS: XP, Vista, Win 7	Re: Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage What was the Rebublican alternative they proposed ?? __________________ Rich MemTest86 \| BenchTest \| Virus/Trojan/Spyware Help How to post a Screen Shot \| PC running slow?

07-08-2009, 04:57 PM	#8 (permalink)
simpswr Moderator Hardware Team Join Date: May 2007 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 12,206 OS: XP, Vista, Win 7	Re: Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage Where have you seen this proposal?? . . Where has it been artuclated?? . . that is my point . . we are just sitting around twiddling our thumbs yelling NO and Never . . instead of developing a viable alternative. The majority of voters clearly want something done . . the last election showed that. Frankly, I am on Government Health Plan now . . (Medicare). Have been on it for 2 years and have yet to be told who I can see or what they can prescribe. Mitch McConnell was on TV last month lobbying against the Democrat budget . . he was asked " Will the Republicans present there budget tomorrow"? Answer . . No! . . and he looked forrified that anyone would thenk he would!! We'll sit around, twiddling our thumbs and yelling No and Never at every Democtatic proposal and when the election rolls around, try to "stand or our record" and convince those voters who last voted with their middle finger that they should now vote for us. What are we thinking??? __________________ Rich MemTest86 \| BenchTest \| Virus/Trojan/Spyware Help How to post a Screen Shot \| PC running slow?

07-08-2009, 05:08 PM	#9 (permalink)
manic Mod Hardware Team Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 5,238 OS: xp	Re: Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage Dont waste your breath Simpswr, not worth it. Brainwashed so called conservatives. Your beatin a dead horse, there is no room for give and take with the like..only hate, and double talk... Still would like to know the Reps definition of a conservative.. You will never get a straight answer..... __________________

07-09-2009, 01:17 AM	#10 (permalink)
Drew1369 Moderator Relaxation Room Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Seattle, WA, USA Posts: 3,425 OS: Win7 Ultimate	Re: Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage Yes except for the republicans that were reelected.. apparently they were still doing their jobs correctly in their districts... No and Never are perfect answers to many when it comes to raising our taxes... They have come out with options... MANY times... have YOU taken the time to look for them? Or are you waiting for CNN or Fox to do it for you? I'll help... Here's one http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/06/...e.health.care/ Here's another http://spectator.org/archives/2009/0...ealth-care-alt Heres one from MSNBC... http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archi...7/1968492.aspx All there... got to love google ehh? __________________ We humans have a primal urge to kill because, thanks to natural selection, all the homo sapiens who didn't have a primal urge to kill, were themselves killed. http://obamaclock.org/

07-09-2009, 07:29 AM	#11 (permalink)
simpswr Moderator Hardware Team Join Date: May 2007 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 12,206 OS: XP, Vista, Win 7	Re: Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage Why does this current brand of Republicans feel the need to attack anyone ( even one of their own ) who questions the actions of the party?? Why are we so incapable of open and honest discussion?? And we wonder why we are turnning off voters!! This rather bland proposal is at least a good start . . but why are we not out in public every chance we have explaining our alternative? Where is the Newt Gingrich of the 90's when we need him? Are we depending on Google searches to get the message out? Do we expect voters to look to our house organs ( Spectator for crying out loud???) for information. There is an old saying : "Persons desireous of obtaining milk should not sit in the pasture waiting for a cow to come by" We need to get off our selfrighteous butts . . listen to what the voters were telling us last November and build on that. "Stay the course" is not a action plan! __________________ Rich MemTest86 \| BenchTest \| Virus/Trojan/Spyware Help How to post a Screen Shot \| PC running slow?

07-09-2009, 12:42 PM	#12 (permalink)
ddrfan Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: california Posts: 68 OS: windows vista ultimate sp2	Re: Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage the reps seem kind of scared to spread whatever alternative they may have further than their home base of fox news I think, partly, it's because of this that much of the people, including me, don't really know that there actually was another plan out there being considered like simpswr said, we are being turned off from the aggressive republicans out there, I know I am, they need to take a chill pill, and be willing to discuss this issue like the civil people they can be, hopefully, before they can effectively get their message to the people it's hard to listen to someone yelling at the top of their lungs so their voice will be heard, but it's even harder if they just whisper along the nets, as it is so very vast and infinite

07-09-2009, 01:09 PM	#13 (permalink)
Drew1369 Moderator Relaxation Room Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Seattle, WA, USA Posts: 3,425 OS: Win7 Ultimate	Re: Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage They do trumpet their plans every time... one has to just unplug their ears to hear that they are getting the word out... what the news decides to run is up to them... Ive heard their proposals all the time on the media networks... apparently some are so turned off to that fact and are just screaming the party line "the republicans aren't coming up with their own plans!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Yes they are, they have been doing it since the begining... __________________ We humans have a primal urge to kill because, thanks to natural selection, all the homo sapiens who didn't have a primal urge to kill, were themselves killed. http://obamaclock.org/

07-09-2009, 01:35 PM	#14 (permalink)
ddrfan Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: california Posts: 68 OS: windows vista ultimate sp2	Re: Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage I apologize, I do tend to watch the news when I can, yet have not heard of any republican alternative until I saw it here. and the only thing I plug my ears to is fox news, I'm not too big a fan of people yelling at eachother because they disagree about something :/ that and although I may have a liberal leaning, I don't belong in any party or necessarily support them the major ones seem too much like the company I work for and too extreme for comfort

07-09-2009, 06:11 PM	#15 (permalink)
simpswr Moderator Hardware Team Join Date: May 2007 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 12,206 OS: XP, Vista, Win 7	Re: Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage Dang Drew . . I think you have saved me a lot of money . . I can quit advertising the business and put up a sign in the back yard, behind the garage, and when a potential client tells me they could not nind me, I'll yell at them for not breaking the chain fence and looking behind the garage. So dang simple when you think it thru from the right perspective!! Whoo BoY . . I can save a lot of cash!!! __________________ Rich MemTest86 \| BenchTest \| Virus/Trojan/Spyware Help How to post a Screen Shot \| PC running slow?

07-09-2009, 08:28 PM	#16 (permalink)
Drew1369 Moderator Relaxation Room Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Seattle, WA, USA Posts: 3,425 OS: Win7 Ultimate	Re: Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage I hear it on the news... they have advertisments on TV talking about the plan with an internet address on the screen... I have seen it on the scifi channel, ABC, NBC, CBS, USAnetwork, etc, etc, etc... shall I continue? I have seen it once on a billboard in WA on I-5... Whats you problem here? What has you blind to it? What has you deaf to it? The signs are in the front yard... you just have to open your eyes... Yes, the republican party might have disenfranchised you... they have done that to alot of us... dont let your hate blind you to the facts that they do come out with alternatives... that they are trumpeting it up to the public... __________________ We humans have a primal urge to kill because, thanks to natural selection, all the homo sapiens who didn't have a primal urge to kill, were themselves killed. http://obamaclock.org/

07-10-2009, 12:10 AM	#17 (permalink)
ddrfan Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: california Posts: 68 OS: windows vista ultimate sp2	Re: Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage maybe they show commercials and talk about it on the news there in Washington, but honestly here in the San Joaquin Valley there have not been any advertisements, that I've seen, or billboards around town... but maybe our news is a little more focused on Cali's budget woes instead. I apologize if I seem to have blocked it out, but there really hasn't been much said about it here maybe they are focusing more of their attention to larger cities or something, Seattle must be like five times larger than the town I live in

07-10-2009, 01:23 AM	#18 (permalink)
manic Mod Hardware Team Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 5,238 OS: xp	Re: Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage Its the same here in central Florida,,all you hear is negative propaganda coming from the right. My ears are not plugged, its always the same ole story with the repub's, spin control. I listen to both sides, Im registered NPA. Ive voted for both dem's and rep's, but with all of the hate and lies coming from the right,makes me sick. They all lie, and decieve but give me a break, the repub's have went way over the top. They have no viable answers so they start the finger pointing, and the lieing,,and the public sees it, its embarrasing. San Joaquin Valley huh? been along time, I was raised there,,, Visalia,,loved that place, until the crime ran me out....lol __________________

07-10-2009, 02:26 AM	#19 (permalink)
ddrfan Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: california Posts: 68 OS: windows vista ultimate sp2	Re: Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage here with just the local news, all you hear is the stuff making the most noise or what is the most relevant to the the people in the valley, which makes sense. We tend to get the short versions the fresno stations send out, with no real mention, that I can think of anyway, of any republican health plan, except during the last election and even then it was limited on both sides. plus at least the only thing the local news seems to be biased about it the weather :/ though some republicans may be making noise, it doesn't seem like enough to spread to many of the non-major cities also, the fact that they have put off so many people probably doesn't help when they try to rally against the proposed dem health plan, or even for their own alternative plan and back to the original topic, though it's good to have health insurance, it is ridiculous to expect people to pay a fine if they can't or refuse to get it btw- I would have thought crime here in Merced would have been a little worse than Visalia-lol

07-10-2009, 06:47 AM	#20 (permalink)
simpswr Moderator Hardware Team Join Date: May 2007 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 12,206 OS: XP, Vista, Win 7	Re: Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage Well . . The wife wanted to talk about this new marketing strategy Drew and I came up with . . I rose up in righteous indignation . . yelled at her real good . . told her that she needed to support the troops . . stay the course . . and be a Maverick. She told me I needed to resign to save the good people of Alaska from any further embarrasment! She walked away with that look on her face that you see anyone who has listened to a Sara Palin speech . . I'm not sure this is gonna work!! __________________ Rich MemTest86 \| BenchTest \| Virus/Trojan/Spyware Help How to post a Screen Shot \| PC running slow?