Jason

Ok, so first off I had a bad day and am in a bad mood. Second, my first hand experience with unions has not been good at all. It was enough that I went above the stewards at my center to file a complaint. I think they had their place, but after seeing how far they have gone, and the self centered thought that the union stewards have in our area make think they are no longer needed in 99% of the cases.


Now onto the subject from my understanding, which may be limited and wrong, if so feel free to enlighten me.

A franchise is something a person buys. They buy a right to sell a product. They pay a fee up front and there is usually a monthly to yearly due. The yearly dues help pay for advertising, and help generate money for the parent company. The only cost the parent company has to pay for is the accountants/book keepers to keep track of inventory and dues from the franchise.

Unions. Again, this is a skewed view, from working in one. They protect the lazy, and the poor me types. They demand high wages and benefits for jobs that require very little education. Their main job seems to be cause the company hardship. They may say it is to help their fellow "brother" out, but if it causes problems for the company, and they can get money out of it, they will throw their "brother" under the buss.

So now the automakers are saying they are loosing too much money. So the government steps in and gives them a bunch of money. Well they still cannot seem to handle the money properly. Automaker wants to cut wages of its employees. Government steps in and says no, you cannot do that, leave the union alone. Close franchises instead. So instead of cutting the pay of someone who makes double digits for sweeping the floor with (if you are lucky) a high school diploma. So you close a franchise who pays the company dues. The franchise is forced to close. It does not matter if they are successful or not. They can employee 10 employees or 100. All them are now out of work. The parent company no longer gets its money. The reason according to the government: too much competition. Franchises have to compete with each other, and sell the cars for too little profit. (again, drop the union wage, increase the profit) Ok, so now there is less competition to sell a car. So you may make more money on a car. However, you just cut the amount of people who can afford the car. The guy working at McDonalds with 8 kids living in a $300k house collecting government food stamps can no longer to afford a new car few years. Now you are selling less cars. Making less profits. And you are still losing money. Time for another bail out? How long would this cycle last?

Am I wrong in this thought? How can you justify the pay of a union worker? Do you really think they can compete on a global market like this? And before you blame American Auto makers CEO's. Yes they had a part to play in this. They did not adapt. Well, I think Ford did. Ford was said to be on the same level for quality as Toyota. Speaking of Toyota, they were bailed out recently too by Japan. But that is another story, just like the Employee Free Choice Act.

That being said. As I said, its been a long day, and I'm off for another beer.

bry623

Blame the unions, how conservative of you.

Jason

As I stated, its not just the unions faults. I blamed the company itself. I am just wondering why the unions are basically untouchable right now? You are not going to fix the problem unless you can cut some of their power. Otherwise it is just going to happen again. No body can give me an answer of why unions are untouchable.


*edited part added below*
I would love to know who we cannot put some of the blame on unions when you have a girl who has been known to steal money from the cash draw (although she was never caught money in hand, her bag was short constantly), would call out of to work 2-3 days a week on average, collapsed a few times when she did come to work stoned or whatever drug she was on, and the union says you cannot fire her.

Then you have a guy who steals drugs from the company, sells them, gets busted for one of the biggest pill busts in the county in years, and tells the cops that he is addicted. So the union steps in says you need to pay for his rehab and give him his job back.

Or another girl the company paid rehab for over 3 times. A lot of the same problems as the first girl above. They couldn't fire her due to the union. She did end up quitting on her own.

Don't get me started on how many lazy workers are there. Show up late, call in constantly, and performance is plan poor, and then have the guts to file a grievance any chance they get. One of them admitted to trying to work past his 9.5 hours 3 days a week just so he can file a grievance on it and get paid more for the overtime.

Then the issue with the evening crew there. All but one guy have a full time job some where else. Most people are just starting a family and are there for the benefits. They come in, bust their rear to get their job done, and go home. After nearly 5 years of this, the Union all of a sudden steps in (not one single person complained about how many hours they work, all but one person who gets all the time he wants, just want to get in and get out) says since the contract says you are guarantied 3.5 hours a night, you have to work it. Union didn't bother to talk to the people at night about it. Just went ahead and did it. Then when asked about it told them tough luck we went ahead and did it, deal with it. Mean while drivers are supposed to be guarantied 8 hours, some of which go home early sometimes, but thats a different story, they can do that. Oh and since not a single person on the evening crew filed a grievance the money goes to the union.

Now this is just a small hub. About 15 people on the evening crew, 2 working the counter, 2 clerks in the back, about 15 more on the morning, and maybe 40 drivers.

The above instances are just what has happened in about 2 or 3 years. I cannot remember when the one girl quit, if it was beginning 08 or late 07.

simpswr

"Follow the money" . . .

djaburg

Automatically assume he's Conservative, how Liberal of you.

I'm a small business owner and pay my guys well, but it's because I want a better level of performance, NOT because a union is telling me I have to. All of my employee's are At Will employees as well. It's the terms that I dictate not he union and if someone doesn't like it, I have no hard feelings if they move on to another employer. I get so disgusted when I hear people whining about their pay for jobs that require little education and even less actual skill. If you don't like what you're getting paid, get more education or get a different job. It's not all that tough. I get real tired of people who (in MY experience only) have never been a part of the real workforce, trying to advocate for things they know nothing about.

Jason

Its ok. People are force feed through the media that being a ceo/president of a company, or just having money is bad this day an age. That every worker is mis-treated and that unions are only protecting the poor innocent worker who works so hard. Never mind that I had stated I am biased towards the unions biased on first hand experience.

I mean does this sound like a Non-Union worker or a Union Steward. In 1997 UPS is on strike. A person working for the Coca-Cola company comes by the center when there is the strike going. He fills up his dollie with products for the vending machine. He goes to fill up the vending machine. However there are a group of people standing in front of the companies property. One of the guy walks over to the employee of Coca-Cola, pushes him down and knocks all the soda off the dollie and says he cannot fill the vending machine. Is that the Manager of the center or the Union Steward. BTW, I heard this was caught on camera by many people and the picture of this happening now follows him whenever he runs for a spot in the local government, but I cannot find the picture.

So an employee calls in sick. You are called into work to cover the employee's route for the day. You have only covered it about 3-5 times before, so you kind of know the route, but not as good as you know it doing it for over 15 years like the employee who called in sick. Anyway, you do the route, put in a hard days work and end up doing about 50-60 more stops that day the normal drivers does and come in about a half hour later then that employee usually does. Well the next day that employee who called in sick comes in. He sees that did more stops then him and complains to certain people that he now looks bad. So someone comes up to you, and he must have dirt in one of his eyes, because he keeps opening and closing it like he is blinking that one eye and says, I cannot tell you to work slower, but we would really like it if you were to work safer. And this goes one for a day or two every time you out perform another employee. Was that a Manager for the company or a Union Steward.

And one last example. You are called into work, something that happens often since it is the Holiday season. So you show up for work. Right around start time someone comes up to you and says "he listen, we made a mistake, we are lighter then we thought. Would you be ok with going home and working the local sort tonight?" You say sure. But uh-oh someone else heard the first person ask if you would go home. He comes up to you and says you need to file a grievance. So say you are fine with going home as you have work to do around the house anyway. The person continues to tell you how you have to file a grievance. If you don't you will never to be able to file one and all this other crap. That night he comes up to you and gives you the same speech as you are trying to work for 10-15 minutes. Again you hear about it the next day too. Was that a Manager or a Union Steward.

Who knows, maybe I am wrong. Maybe bry623 would love to have the workers that I have mentioned for him in this thread working for him.

Jason

Ahhh. You mean all the money unions have donated and lobbiest that they have?

bruiser

Are you having some fun, Bry?

Drew1369

Yeah... I dont think Jason knows bry was being facetious...

But unions will be the downfall of business if they already haven't been... looking at the UAW on that one...

bry623

That is my mantra, but I do think that I gave him an avenue for his thoughts.

simpswr

Bingo! ! !

k2skier

That one line blew all your credibility. Typical for a jaded partisan hack to spew untrue statments.

Drew1369

How did it blow his credibility?

Looks like its a generic statement of people that abuse the welfare system... you do know that people like that exist right?

Drew1369

Here is a very great read on dealers vs Chrysler...


http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/0...are-heard.html

Jason

Yup, next thing you will tell me is the person who won a settlement for a slip in fall in the mall, quit her job and bought a nice new house, while her husband worked for someone installing fences (not a very high paying job), bought a brand new H2, and in 2002 bought a house for 196,500 (according to the county tax appraiser) then filed for bankruptcy in 2008, took the walk way pavers with them, took the windows out of the house, all the inside doors, the front doors, all the copper wiring, and the mail box with them didn't happen. If you wish I can take pictures of the house. Its all boarded up right now, so I cannot take pictures of the inside.

Or how about when I used to work at my friends store. He mostly sold beer and cigarettes. He used to have people sit out front of the store and try to sell food stamps for $0.50 for every $1.00 of food stamps. Then they would walk in and buy beer.

Sadly the above are only a few samples. I can give you a co-workers number. He flips and rents out houses. He has had some interesting stories of some of the foreclosed homes he has looked at.

Oh, and BTW, my g/f (soon to be wife), works at McDonalds. I've had a few run in with the employees there. All three of her brothers also work at McDonalds too. I'm familiar with some of the workers there.

Jason

Naw, its just been a bad week and I'm looking to blow off some steam before I have to talk to the District Union Manager. I heard through some people that they are kind of upset with me. Apparently after I quit the Union about two months ago word got out to some of the other people at night, and they asked how they can quit too. I guess I am now seen as a trouble maker.

Drew1369

Dern trouble making union quitters... of course... the less people in the union the less tightening of a noose the union has over the company... once they have tasted power, they never want to relinquish it.

But if you are no longer part of the union... why do you have to go talk to him?

40sondacurb

congeniality


I'm going through the debate right now. From what I hear (from a non member) our union is pretty good.

Jason

They said the need to talk to me about why I am removing myself from the union. I had already stated why in the letter, but I'll explain it to them again if they wish.

As for those who may or may not left the union after me. It was their choice. I was asked how I did it, and left the choice up to them. I know a lot where upset already. One guy said they were taking out 3x what they should be taking weekly.

Jason

I think it revolves around (like anything else) to those in charge. You have some power hungry people in a position of power, they will seek more.