Laptopcharacter

Have I ever said I was perfect? And, another good question along those lines...have you ever said you were perfect?
No, I did not, and I have only quoted His word, until you people started getting me quoting my beliefs, *without direct quotes of the Scriptures* (which is something I should never have done in the first place)...
So, keep in mind, those are *mostly* God's words, that I'm saying, not my own.

k2skier

You are waaaaay too hung up on scripture and what's in the Bible, taking it literally word for word is very damaging to ones open mindedness and logical thought processes.

EVERYONE at the time the Bible was written KNEW the Earth revolved around the sun, it was common knowledge, the this guy came around, about mid Th century, Galileo, he defied the Church and started viewing the Heavens without guidance by the church/Bible, and came to the very unpopular finding that the earth revolves around the sun. And it was also common knowledge back then that the earth was flat; so how could the Bible have any faults...with humans knowing so much about the earth, our solar system and space.

Indoril Nerevar

Actually, that is not what we were after. We wanted you to stop quoting from the one book, yes. But what we wanted you to start doing was providing real-world evidence - not just your beliefs. You have been unable to do that. I have not seen a single link to documentation of real-world evidence. I have not seen a single reference to a book that wasn't the Bible. I have not seen any information in any of your posts that would actually be counted as "evidence" and not "opinion".

I could very easily take any book of fiction from a bookshop and start quoting it, claiming it to be "scripture" and "gospel" and "the one truth" and "the word of God". But that would just be ridiculous. Yet that is what you were doing until we got you to stop. Now, you are just stating that your beliefs are true, and that we'll go to Hell if we don't believe them.

Show us some evidence.

Laptopcharacter

k2, you base your whole argument on the assumption that the Bible (I'm assuming, the whole Bible) was written *without* inspiration of the Holy Spirit (which confirmed to the men who wrote it, the truth about the universe in general, i.e. that the earth was round). And you have no way of proving that everyone believed that the earth was flat before Galileo was around. Why? Because none of us living today were around in the period that the Bible was being written (in sections, not all at the same time), and therefore don't know (for sure) what the beliefs of the people that existed at that time, were. The only true basis we have to plot mankind's existence by is His word, which was put down (by humans) at the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Laptopcharacter

Ok, so let's start at the beginning, and ask a few questions...

Indoril: What have you provided in terms of "real-world evidence", and how do you define "real-world evidence"? Is it man's opinion, because last time I checked that varies between person to person, and you can rarely find anyone that holds the same opinion you do...?

The Bible is the only real, true, "real-world" evidence, but that is exactly what you have been ignoring all along.
Where have I stated "my beliefs are true, and that you'll go to Hell if you don't believe them"? I don't recall saying anything that was similar to that...
No, it is not my beliefs that are true (if they don't fit the Scriptures). Rather, it is what God says that is true, and if you want to know what He said, you'll read His word for yourself, and not take anybody else's word for it.

"Show us some evidence."

Actually, I could direct the same statement at you...
Where is the "evidence" that you have showed us in this thread, and what makes it "evidence"? How do you define "evidence"? More importantly, do your views of "evidence" agree with anybody else's views of "evidence"?
If its all based on human imagination, and opinion, how can you call that "real-world evidence"? Oh, sure, I bet you can find a long string of occurrences where this "fact" was "proven", and this "fact" was proven...but have you taken the time to study the basis of that "fact" yourself? We can just keep going around and around this merry-go-round if you wish, but so far, I have not really seen anything that I would call "evidence" either presented by you.
So how about, we just all put our petty differences aside, and accept the fact that we don't know everything, and the only true One that does know everything is the creator of everything (at least everything natural, before Satan came along, and messed it all up), namely Jesus?

Or else you can post what you call "evidence", and provide "facts" that support your beliefs...
I have already done so. What I believe is written in the Scriptures, which I quoted many a time in this thread...

Indoril Nerevar

Cosmos Magazine

Evolution - Wikipedia

"Evolution"

Evolution - Video

The Big Bang - Wikipedia

The Big Bang

YouTube - The Evidence For The Big Bang In 10 Little Minutes


That should be enough to get you started.

Laptopcharacter

I see you edited your post, and added this to it...
Really? Maybe this so-called "open mindedness" is what allows Satan to operate in us, eh? Otherwise, if we only accept what God says as fact, we wouldn't be in this mess of non-belief in the first place...

BTW, when in your life were these ideas formed? Who did you learn them from? Were they just thoughts that came to you when you were still a kid?

The devil knows how to operate among our thoughts, if we let him. So does God, if we allow him.

So, it follows that whosoever you submit yourself to, that is who you are a servant of, and who you will obey (whether sin, through Satan, or righteousness, through God). And it all starts in your thoughts.
Romans 6:16
Genesis 6:5
Psalms 10:4
Psalms 94:11
Psalms 94:19
Psalms 139:17
Psalms 12:5
Psalms 15:26
Isaiah 55:7
Isaiah 55:8
Isaiah 55:9
Isaiah 59:7
Isaiah 65:2
Isaiah 66:18
Jeremiah 4:14
Jeremiah 6:19
Jeremiah 23:20
Jeremiah 29:11
Micah 4:12
Matthew 9:4
Matthew 12:25-30
Matthew 15:19
Mark 7:21
Hebrews 4:12
James 2:4

Laptopcharacter

Look...I will look into these links, and am sure that I will find fault with this whole "Big Bang" *theory*, and "evolution", and all that garbage (because that is what it truly is, anyway). But, let me just ask you a simple question...

Even if (and that's a big IF...) all those things that you believe are true, then what then? Give yourself a pat on the back for how "smart" you are, and think that you have "arrived"?
Get real...
Our time on this Earth is limited. Best to spend it wisely (i.e. studying His word), or you'll get so far off the path of righteousness, that you don't even believe in God (as you have done).
All this other stuff is just a waste of time, frankly. What better way for the devil to lead one into hell, then to have him spend all his time chasing knowledge *for himself*, and trying to understand how the earth formed (i.e. to understand all the specifics), and all that?
I do not need to know what an element is made of, or what mathematical equation defines it. To be honest, I don't care really, on how everything came into being. It is sufficient for me to believe that God created it, and that is enough. I don't really need to know anymore than that.
What will man do with all this knowledge anyway, if and when, he obtains it? Huh? Just take a look at what so-called "science" has already done with the atomic bomb...creating a weapon that can basically wipe us all off the planet. Yeah, that would be "science" at its finest...
Pursuing this path of humanism, and trying to understand everything (basically, to be God), is what got this world in this trouble in the first place. I believe that all it will really lead to, in the end, is destruction...

And that is what you want to believe in? Science??? Give me a break...

Indoril Nerevar

Well, there you have it. You are 100% dedicated to your beliefs, and nothing anyone ever says will change you even one iota, no matter how logical or correct or convincing the evidence is. You are definitely not an open-minded person. You cannot have a logical argument about your beliefs - even when you consider the other side of the coin, you only do so from inside your religious bubble. That is not consideration at all.

You should have made your position clear from the start. That way, we would have known that this discussion is absolutely pointless.

Laptopcharacter

What I would like to know is the answer to the question that I just asked...

What will you do with all this knowledge (if and when) you obtain it?

Do you think you are smarter than God?

Will you create something that will blow us all to kingdom come? Even if you don't believe in God, you ought to believe at least in death, because that we can see all around us, when people die...

Will it give you great comfort if you come up with a way to split the atom even more, and bring destruction to all of us (including yourself)?

I would like to hear the answers to those questions...

I direct them to all who have the same beliefs Indoril has, and to all who worship science like it was God.

What will you do with all this knowledge? Does it have a purpose? Will it bring creation or destruction?

Indoril Nerevar

Laptopcharacter

"I will further my understanding of the universe."
Yes, and what then? What will you do with this "understanding of the universe"?
No, actually it isn't, because He indeed DOES exist. And so, I guess I will take the answer of that question to be a yes...
"I am not that kind of person."
That is a question to be debated...
Sure, you probably aren't right now, but what would you do, if you felt threatened...say by another country with an atomic bomb, and ready to use it?
Good question...why would you? Maybe because it is the nature of man to sin, and to create destruction, if left to their own devices.
Really...?
Yes, I am aware that computers were created through science...but what will their end purpose be? As so-called "science" advances, what will humans use computers for the most? Maybe it will be used to detonate atomic bombs...
Neither is your "belief" based on any real true "evidence" either. Everything you have pointed to as your belief so far, is seen really by most people (probably even including the guys that came up with the theory in the first place), as only being "theory" anyway, not true fact. It really has no basis in fact, at all. There would probably be a thousand ways to contradict any number of the points brought up in the "Big Bang" theory, if someone who was interested enough in it, desired to prove it wrong.
There is no logical way to actually "prove" (I'm talking beyond a shadow of a doubt, here) that what science says is "fact" actually is fact.

Indoril Nerevar

Laptopcharacter

Yes, though those men did those things "in the name of God" (quote), there is no excuse at all, and it was certainly not God's will. I take no part in the things those men did at all, and do not believe they were true Christians at all (and it gives us all a bad name, I know). The Holecaust (killing of Jews) was certainly not what it means to be a Christian, either...
I don't believe those men believed in God at all, or certainly had no fear of Him.
Creation of artificial life, eh...? Yes, I see it heading there even now. Wicked, abominable, things man does (in the name of "science")...
How dare the creation fight against their creator, and how dare they try to make a (poor) imitation of what God has already done (namely, created life)!
God is going to judge this nation (and this whole planet) for the wicked things mankind (in general) are doing.
A false hope, and false evidence...
You will find out one day that what was spoken in this thread is truly the God-spoken truth, and you will find out one day He exists. But, as for me, I can do nothing at all for you, for you are too stubborn in your own beliefs, which are not based on the Scriptures...

And before you "go off the deep end", so to speak, here, let me just reaffirm to you that I do not believe I am perfect, or my view is wholly accurate, and complete. Far from it...

Rather, I think there are some things (like all men) I need to repent for, before its too late.

As for you, my friend, I say, may it be well with you...

There is nothing that anyone (other than God) can do for you now, for Satan has got you so deceived, it is impossible for another human to penetrate that hard wall of stone, and convince you of the the one and true TRUTH.
I am admitting my own inability to do so. And as you are certainly not going to convert me, nor I you, I think it may be best to part ways now...

No sense at arguing this same question to death...

I only wish that I had been able to declare some of my other beliefs (NOT just in the existence of God, but rather many other things I think He has shown me in the Scriptures).

Regards.

Jake

Indoril Nerevar

Quite right. I will just go on knowing that I understand the way the world really works, and you can feel free to continue believing in your imaginary friend.

I wish you all the best in life, even if you do not see it for what it really is.

Regards,
Indoril

yustr

We've been running around the tree too long.

Thread closed.

No more religious discussions - at least for awhile. (See the rules of the PS.)

yustr