Colin Powel a Democrat - Page 2

yustr · 05-13-2009, 07:14 AM

Quote:

I went through the Iran-contra hearings and watched the way administration officials ran for cover and left the little guys out to dry. And I was bound and determined that wasn't going to happen this time. ... And this time around I'll do my damndest to defend anybody out there--be they in the agency carrying out the orders or the lawyers who wrote the opinions. I don't know whether anybody else will, but I sure as hell will.

Dick Cheney from HERE

In response I offer this.

Quote:

Courts-martial, nonjudicial, and administrative punishment
Twelve soldiers have been convicted of various charges relating to the incidents, all including dereliction of duty—most receiving relatively minor sentences. Two soldiers have either been cleared of charges or have not been charged. No one has been convicted for murders of detainees.

Colonel Thomas Pappas was relieved of his command on May 13, 2005 after receiving nonjudicial punishment on May 9, 2005 for two instances of dereliction, including that of allowing dogs to be present during interrogations. He was fined $8000 under the provisions of Article 15 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (nonjudicial punishment). He also received a General Officer Memorandum of Reprimand (GOMOR) which effectively ends his military career.
Lieutenant Colonel Steven L. Jordan became the highest ranking Army officer to have charges brought against him in connection with the Abu Ghraib abuse on April 29, 2006.[46] Prior to his trial, eight of twelve charges against him were dismissed, two of the most serious after Major General George Fay admitted that he did not read Jordan his rights before interviewing him in reference to the abuses that had taken place. On August 28, 2007, Jordan was acquitted of all charges related to prisoner mistreatment and received a reprimand for disobeying an order not to discuss a 2004 investigation into the allegations.[47]
Specialist Charles Graner found guilty on January 14, 2005 of conspiracy to maltreat detainees, failing to protect detainees from abuse, cruelty, and maltreatment, as well as charges of assault, indecency, adultery, and obstruction of justice. On January 15, 2005, he was sentenced to ten years in federal prison.[48]
Corporal Joshua Lee Bettsof the 321st Military Intelligence Battalion, Detachment 9, pled innocent on October 20, 2004 to conspiracy, dereliction of duty, maltreatment of detainees, assault, and numerous violations of Geneva Convention, and human rights violation. Cpl. Joshua Lee Betts was later cleared of all charges.
Staff Sergeant Ivan Frederick pled guilty on October 20, 2004 to conspiracy, dereliction of duty, maltreatment of detainees, assault and committing an indecent act in exchange for other charges being dropped. His abuses included making three prisoners masturbate. He also punched one prisoner so hard in the chest that he needed resuscitation. He was sentenced to eight years in prison, forfeiture of pay, a dishonorable discharge and a reduction in rank to private.[49]
Sergeant Javal Davis pled guilty February 4, 2005 to dereliction of duty, making false official statements and battery. He was sentenced to six months in prison, a reduction in rank to private, and a bad conduct discharge.
Specialist Jeremy Sivits was sentenced on May 19, 2004 by a special court-martial to the maximum one-year sentence, in addition to being discharged for bad conduct and demoted, upon his plea of guilty.[50]
Specialist Armin Cruz of the 325th Military Intelligence Battalion was sentenced on September 11, 2004 to eight months confinement, reduction in rank to private and a bad conduct discharge in exchange for his testimony against other soldiers.[51]
Specialist Sabrina Harman was sentenced on May 17, 2005 to six months in prison and a bad conduct discharge after being convicted on six of the seven counts. She had faced a maximum sentence of 5 years.[52]
Specialist Megan Ambuhl was convicted on October 30, 2004, of dereliction of duty and sentenced to reduction in rank to private and loss of a half-month’s pay.[53]
Private First Class Lynndie England was convicted on September 26, 2005, of one count of conspiracy, four counts of maltreating detainees and one count of committing an indecent act. She was acquitted on a second conspiracy count. England had faced a maximum sentence of ten years. She was sentenced on September 27, 2005, to three years confinement, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, reduction to Private (E-1) and received a dishonorable discharge.[49]
Sergeant Santos Cardona was convicted of dereliction of duty and aggravated assault, the equivalent of a felony in the U.S. civilian justice system. He served 90 days of hard labor at Ft. Bragg, North Carolina. He was transferred to a new unit and was promoted to Sergeant. He is currently assigned to the 23rd MP Company that is presently staged in Kuwait as of November 2006. He has arrived in Kuwait with his unit and has been selected to train Iraqi police.[54]
Specialist Roman Krol pled guilty on February 1, 2005 to conspiracy and maltreatment of detainees at Abu Ghraib. He was sentenced to ten months confinement, reduction in rank to private, and a bad conduct discharge.[55]
Specialist Israel Rivera, who was present during abuse on October 25, is under investigation but has not been charged and has testified against other soldiers.
Sergeant Michael Smith was found guilty on March 21, 2006 of two counts of prisoner maltreatment, one count of simple assault, one count of conspiracy to maltreat, one count of dereliction of duty and a final charge of an indecent act, and sentenced to 179 days in prison, a fine of $2,250, a demotion to private, and a bad conduct discharge.

from HERE

Bolding is mine.
OK apologists - have at it.

yustr · 05-22-2009, 09:24 AM

He's still speaking for you.

Quote:

But in the fight against terrorism, there is no middle ground, and half-measures keep you half-exposed. You cannot keep just some nuclear-armed terrorists out of the United States; you must keep every nuclear-armed terrorist out of the United States.

Full Text

Um, Mr. VP, are there really terrorists with nuclear bombs or are you just trying a little fearmongering to spice up the news?

**Drew1369** · 05-22-2009, 01:27 PM

I'm looking at all of the soldiers that were charged. They look like they have charges for specific things beyond enhanced interrogation techniques... they broke specific tenents of laws... none have been charged for waterboarding... I dont see your point with that...

yustr · 05-22-2009, 06:33 PM

My point?

He could have said at the time: "They used enhanced techniques that I approved. End of story." But he didn't. Now, some 5 years later he says he won't run for cover and leave the little guys to catch the blame. Laughable.

Also, he could have had Bush declassify the memo's he's trying to get Obama to release. But no. Its much more convenient to get up on the stage and say "Man, if you could only see these you'd see that we got really valuable info by using torture. So what's the big deal?"

Why does he have more to say now than when he was VP?

The man is despicable. Don't you have anyone else to express the party's ideas? If so, perhaps someone would actually listen. That presumes you actually have some.

yustr · 05-30-2009, 10:56 AM

Cheney Update:

Quote:

A former State Department official has told CNN that the main purpose of the Bush-era interrogations was finding a link between Iraq and al Qaeda.

Which is far from what Cheney is saying it was for. Oh, and S. Carl Levin (D Mich) says:

Quote:

... that the two CIA documents that Cheney wants released "say nothing about numbers of lives saved, nor do the documents connect acquisition of valuable intelligence to the use of abusive techniques."

Both quotes from HERE

You can quit talking now Dick, your reputation is secure.

05-22-2009, 01:27 PM	#23 (permalink)
Drew1369 Moderator Relaxation Room Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Seattle, WA, USA Posts: 3,444 OS: Win7 Ultimate	Re: Colin Powel a Democrat I'm looking at all of the soldiers that were charged. They look like they have charges for specific things beyond enhanced interrogation techniques... they broke specific tenents of laws... none have been charged for waterboarding... I dont see your point with that... __________________ We humans have a primal urge to kill because, thanks to natural selection, all the homo sapiens who didn't have a primal urge to kill, were themselves killed. http://obamaclock.org/

05-22-2009, 06:33 PM	#24 (permalink)
yustr Asst. Manager, The Conversation Pit Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Connecticut shore Posts: 6,057 OS: XP Pro My System	Re: Colin Powel a Democrat My point? He could have said at the time: "They used enhanced techniques that I approved. End of story." But he didn't. Now, some 5 years later he says he won't run for cover and leave the little guys to catch the blame. Laughable. Also, he could have had Bush declassify the memo's he's trying to get Obama to release. But no. Its much more convenient to get up on the stage and say "Man, if you could only see these you'd see that we got really valuable info by using torture. So what's the big deal?" Why does he have more to say now than when he was VP? The man is despicable. Don't you have anyone else to express the party's ideas? If so, perhaps someone would actually listen. That presumes you actually have some. __________________ If there are lawyers or politicians involved, logic may be a very poor tool for reaching a conclusion.