New findings from FBI about cop attackers and their weapons

**Jason** · 03-17-2009, 09:31 AM

http://www.policeone.com/writers/col...icles/1243754/

Predominately handguns were used in the assaults on officers and all but one were obtained illegally, usually in street transactions or in thefts. In contrast to media myth, none of the firearms in the study was obtained from gun shows. What was available “was the overriding factor in weapon choice,” the report says. Only 1 offender hand-picked a particular gun “because he felt it would do the most damage to a human being.”

Nearly 40% of the offenders had some type of formal firearms training, primarily from the military. More than 80% “regularly practiced with handguns, averaging 23 practice sessions a year,” the study reports, usually in informal settings like trash dumps, rural woods, back yards and “street corners in known drug-trafficking areas.”

**kinbard** · 03-17-2009, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason

http://www.policeone.com/writers/col...icles/1243754/
Predominately handguns were used in the assaults on officers and all but one were obtained illegally, usually in street transactions or in thefts. In contrast to media myth, none of the firearms in the study was obtained from gun shows.

No way, that can't be... everyone has only been saying it for years. Harder to trace this way.

**Drew1369** · 03-17-2009, 06:27 PM

But guns are the root of all evil... and if guns were all made illegal criminals would follow the law and not buy any becaquse criminals are only criminals because of laws...

yustr · 03-17-2009, 06:39 PM

Wait let me get this correct: the criminals selling the guns on the street have a manufacturing plant back in an alley somewhere.

**Drew1369** · 03-17-2009, 06:50 PM

nope... but it shows that they are stealing their guns ore buying on the black markets

**kinbard** · 03-18-2009, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yustr

Wait let me get this correct: the criminals selling the guns on the street have a manufacturing plant back in an alley somewhere.

Are you suggesting that if all law abiding citizens turned their guns in to the authorities, there would be not be a well supplied market for the criminals to access guns?

yustr · 03-18-2009, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinbard

Are you suggesting that if all law abiding citizens turned their guns in to the authorities, there would be not be a well supplied market for the criminals to access guns?

Not at all. I'm saying that the guns have to come from somewhere. Just saying "all but one were obtained illegally" doesn't say where. If they're being stolen from law abiding citizens - perhaps we should be promoting gun safes during safety training. But if I had to guess its that they are being bought legally then sold illegally. You have to report when and to who you sell your car - why not similar with your gun?

**kinbard** · 03-18-2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yustr

You have to report when and to who you sell your car - why not similar with your gun?

Good point.

**Jason** · 03-18-2009, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yustr

If they're being stolen from law abiding citizens - perhaps we should be promoting gun safes during safety training.

Two weapons stolen from Montebello police cruiser after apparent joy ride

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an AR-15 assault rifle and an 870 Remington shotgun -- were missing.

SWAT Team Member Leaves Assault Rifle in Front of Utah Home

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A member of Salt Lake County's SWAT team left an M4 assault rifle in front of someone's home after leaving the scene of a standoff in the township of White City.

Police officer's gun, Taser stolen

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A Salem police officer faces disciplinary action after his firearm, Taser and pepper spray were stolen from his unlocked personal vehicle in Windham.

Big Island police officer's weapons, including Taser, stolen in burglary

Police Officer’s Truck, Uniforms and Several Weapons Stolen - Arizona

Quote:

Inside the truck, police said, were two .40-caliber Glock pistols with 100 rounds of ammunition, an AR-15 assault rifle with five fully loaded magazines, a ballistic vest, police uniforms and IDs, flat badges and wallet badges.

Big Island police officer's weapons, including Taser, stolen in burglary

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A burglar broke into a Hawaii County police officer's home this week and stole a semi-automatic pistol and Taser-brand electronic control device.

Tactical weapons stolen from WSP vehicle

Quote:

The following weapons and police equipment were taken from the trunk of the vehicle:

-Colt M4 5.56mm Carbine (rifle) with fully automatic capability, equipped with a collapsible stock, grip light and sight

-H&K "Tactical" .40 caliber pistol, equipped withy an under-barrel laser and light device

Both these weapons were inside a black, hard-sided locked case.

-Safariland Level 3 vest with "Police" on the body and "Washington State Patrol" on the sleeves.

-Two noise/flash/diversion "Flash-Bangs" grenades

-Six loaded 30 round magazines for the 5.56 mm M4 rifle

-Five loaded 15 round magazines for the H&K .40 caliber pistol

-Maycom handheld portable radio

-ITT PVS-14 nigh-vision goggles

Them darn civilians. They need better gun training.

**kinbard** · 03-18-2009, 01:59 PM

Man, you could build up quite the arsonal by following the police around.

yustr · 03-18-2009, 06:24 PM

OK I get it now. The police LET the criminals steal their weapons so they'll (the police that is) will have justification for their jobs. Its a viscous treadmill we're on. More guns in the hands of criminals = more police = more guns in the hands of criminals = more police.

But seriously: do the records indicate a single time a weapon stolen from (or left by) the police being used to shoot a police officer? You'd think they would have mentioned it.

Quote:

According to Americans for Gun Safety (December 2002), gun theft is most likely in states without laws requiring safe storage of firearms in the home and where there are large numbers of gun owners and relatively high crime rates. Based on FBI data, nearly 1.7 million guns have been reported stolen in the past ten years, and only 40% of those were recovered. The missing guns, over 80% of which are taken from homes or cars, most likely fuel the black market for criminals. NEA, AGS and the National Rifle Association advocate for safe storage. To access "Stolen Guns: Arming the Enemy" visit www.agsfoundation.com. Source

**Drew1369** · 03-18-2009, 09:31 PM

Yeah its just like those civilians that LET the criminals steal their guns so they'll have justification to create more gun control laws...

**Canaanabolaanan** · 03-18-2009, 10:00 PM

Re: Drew.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yustr

Based on FBI data, nearly 1.7 million guns have been reported stolen in the past ten years, and only 40% of those were recovered. The missing guns, over 80% of which are taken from homes or cars, most likely fuel the black market for criminals

The correct solution is to address all sources of stolen guns, not just the portion that suits agrees with your politics.

What reason is there not to have a gun registration policy in effect?

**Drew1369** · 03-18-2009, 10:06 PM

Look at all countries that did that and look at their gun laws now...

**Canaanabolaanan** · 03-18-2009, 10:31 PM

I haven't kept up in the gun debate department. Please provide countries that did that, preferably with links.

**Drew1369** · 03-18-2009, 11:48 PM

Austrailia, Cuba, Russia... want more?

**Jason** · 03-19-2009, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yustr

OK I get it now. The police LET the criminals steal their weapons so they'll (the police that is) will have justification for their jobs. Its a viscous treadmill we're on. More guns in the hands of criminals = more police = more guns in the hands of criminals = more police.

But seriously: do the records indicate a single time a weapon stolen from (or left by) the police being used to shoot a police officer? You'd think they would have mentioned it.

How many of those weapons were stolen from police officers? It almost reminds of of a show It takes a thief. I loved that show, would watch it religiously and watched re-runs. Why? Well because home theft is a big fear of mine. As my g/f I check the locks on average 3 times before we leave the house. But I'm getting off topic. One of the episodes they broke into a police/fire/city clerk station. They would have gotten away with their store house of guns, including ones that were evidence in crimes. I've searched to see if someone had the video of it on the internet, but I couldn't find it. I did find this out that I didn't know before in a eposide recap from tv.com

Quote:

It's the most daring, audacious heist to date when Matt and Jon target a small town's police station. This station is connected to the city clerk's office and fire-station and is sorely in need of an upgrade that hasn't happened to a lack of available budget. Located in one of the top 10 richest communities in the United States, Matt fears that it's madness to try to beat the police at their own game, but Jon sees it differently. Knowing that their security is sorely out-of-date, the police chief agrees to the break-in and soon the station's security is put to the test.

I'm not saying don't lock up your guns. I would have a big old steel (not glass) gun safe, and trigger locks if I do ever get a gun. I have been looking too, the Remington 700's are looking purdy. However, I cannot afford the gun safe, so I haven't gotten the gun. I think every gun should come with a trigger lock. There are still ways around it but it does make it harder. If you are going to punish a citizen for not locking up a gun what about the police officer who has his weapons stolen?

**Jason** · 03-19-2009, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canaanabolaanan

I haven't kept up in the gun debate department. Please provide countries that did that, preferably with links.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics

Although Brazil has 100 million fewer citizens than the United States, and more restrictive gun laws, there are 25 percent more gun deaths

All firearms in Brazil are required to be registered with the state; the minimum age for ownership is 25[3] and it is generally illegal to carry a gun outside a residence.

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Under East Timorese law, only the military and police forces may legally possess, carry and use firearms. However, despite these laws, East Timor has many problems with illegally-armed militias, including widespread violence in 2006 which resulted in over 100,000 people being forced from their homes, as well as two separate assassination attempts on the Prime Minister and President in early 2008.

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Mexico has strict gun laws. Mexican citizens may purchase arms for self-protection or hunting only after receiving approval of a petition to the Defense Ministry, which performs extensive background checks. The allowed weapons are restricted to relatively low-caliber and must be purchased from the Defense Ministry only.

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While having a large amount of civilian owned guns, Norway has a low gun crime rate.

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Switzerland requires every male over the age of 20 to own an assault rifle (specifically SIG 550 in 5.56 cal.). In one study by David Kopel of seven countries, including the United States and Japan, Switzerland is found to be one of the safest countries in the study.

**kinbard** · 03-19-2009, 12:06 PM

I'm kind of torn on the trigger lock issue. Without a doubt, children in the house, gun case. But if there is an intruder, first you have to get the case open, then the gun out, then remove the trigger lock. I'd imagine by then it would be a moot point. But, I don't own any guys. No one try to come rob me, though. I have lots of swords

**Jason** · 03-19-2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinbard

I'm kind of torn on the trigger lock issue. Without a doubt, children in the house, gun case. But if there is an intruder, first you have to get the case open, then the gun out, then remove the trigger lock. I'd imagine by then it would be a moot point. But, I don't own any guys. No one try to come rob me, though. I have lots of swords

See, I'm looking at them for hunting. So trigger locks for me are no problem. Plus my g/f has a kid. Even if I was to keep a hand gun for self protection I would have a harder time keeping it loaded. I do however keep a bb gun next to my bed along with a sheathed short sword.

I will need to get a hand gun if I do start bow hunting. But I have a lot of practice on the bow still. It has been many years since I last shot one.

But as I have to twice while responding in this thread to get up and open the front door as my g/f's kid closed it and gotten her fingers stuck, am left wondering, should we have to register doors?

Ok, not serious on that one. But I'm sure someone out there could run with it.

03-17-2009, 09:31 AM	#1 (permalink)
Jason Faugh a ballagh Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Pasco, FL Posts: 8,482 OS: Windows Vista My System Blog Entries: 2	New findings from FBI about cop attackers and their weapons http://www.policeone.com/writers/col...icles/1243754/ Predominately handguns were used in the assaults on officers and all but one were obtained illegally, usually in street transactions or in thefts. In contrast to media myth, none of the firearms in the study was obtained from gun shows. What was available “was the overriding factor in weapon choice,” the report says. Only 1 offender hand-picked a particular gun “because he felt it would do the most damage to a human being.” Nearly 40% of the offenders had some type of formal firearms training, primarily from the military. More than 80% “regularly practiced with handguns, averaging 23 practice sessions a year,” the study reports, usually in informal settings like trash dumps, rural woods, back yards and “street corners in known drug-trafficking areas.” __________________ Posting Tips \| Advice for New People \| Common Fixes \| Agus na damnaithe fágtha gan focal Glaoigh ormsa i measc na naomh

03-17-2009, 06:27 PM	#3 (permalink)
Drew1369 Moderator Relaxation Room Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Seattle, WA, USA Posts: 3,443 OS: Win7 Ultimate	Re: New findings from FBI about cop attackers and their weapons But guns are the root of all evil... and if guns were all made illegal criminals would follow the law and not buy any becaquse criminals are only criminals because of laws... __________________ We humans have a primal urge to kill because, thanks to natural selection, all the homo sapiens who didn't have a primal urge to kill, were themselves killed. http://obamaclock.org/

03-17-2009, 06:39 PM	#4 (permalink)
yustr Asst. Manager, The Conversation Pit Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Connecticut shore Posts: 6,057 OS: XP Pro My System	Re: New findings from FBI about cop attackers and their weapons Wait let me get this correct: the criminals selling the guns on the street have a manufacturing plant back in an alley somewhere. __________________ If there are lawyers or politicians involved, logic may be a very poor tool for reaching a conclusion.

03-17-2009, 06:50 PM	#5 (permalink)
Drew1369 Moderator Relaxation Room Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Seattle, WA, USA Posts: 3,443 OS: Win7 Ultimate	Re: New findings from FBI about cop attackers and their weapons nope... but it shows that they are stealing their guns ore buying on the black markets __________________ We humans have a primal urge to kill because, thanks to natural selection, all the homo sapiens who didn't have a primal urge to kill, were themselves killed. http://obamaclock.org/

03-18-2009, 01:59 PM	#10 (permalink)
kinbard TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 3,459 OS: Experimenter	Re: New findings from FBI about cop attackers and their weapons Man, you could build up quite the arsonal by following the police around. __________________ Half viking, half pirate, stronger than both XP Repair Malware Removal Vista Repair Downgrade Vista

03-18-2009, 09:31 PM	#12 (permalink)
Drew1369 Moderator Relaxation Room Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Seattle, WA, USA Posts: 3,443 OS: Win7 Ultimate	Re: New findings from FBI about cop attackers and their weapons Yeah its just like those civilians that LET the criminals steal their guns so they'll have justification to create more gun control laws... __________________ We humans have a primal urge to kill because, thanks to natural selection, all the homo sapiens who didn't have a primal urge to kill, were themselves killed. http://obamaclock.org/

03-18-2009, 10:06 PM	#14 (permalink)
Drew1369 Moderator Relaxation Room Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Seattle, WA, USA Posts: 3,443 OS: Win7 Ultimate	Re: New findings from FBI about cop attackers and their weapons Look at all countries that did that and look at their gun laws now... __________________ We humans have a primal urge to kill because, thanks to natural selection, all the homo sapiens who didn't have a primal urge to kill, were themselves killed. http://obamaclock.org/

03-18-2009, 10:31 PM	#15 (permalink)
Canaanabolaanan TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 566 OS: XP Pro SP3	Re: New findings from FBI about cop attackers and their weapons I haven't kept up in the gun debate department. Please provide countries that did that, preferably with links.

03-18-2009, 11:48 PM	#16 (permalink)
Drew1369 Moderator Relaxation Room Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Seattle, WA, USA Posts: 3,443 OS: Win7 Ultimate	Re: New findings from FBI about cop attackers and their weapons Austrailia, Cuba, Russia... want more? __________________ We humans have a primal urge to kill because, thanks to natural selection, all the homo sapiens who didn't have a primal urge to kill, were themselves killed. http://obamaclock.org/

03-19-2009, 12:06 PM	#19 (permalink)
kinbard TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 3,459 OS: Experimenter	Re: New findings from FBI about cop attackers and their weapons I'm kind of torn on the trigger lock issue. Without a doubt, children in the house, gun case. But if there is an intruder, first you have to get the case open, then the gun out, then remove the trigger lock. I'd imagine by then it would be a moot point. But, I don't own any guys. No one try to come rob me, though. I have lots of swords __________________ Half viking, half pirate, stronger than both XP Repair Malware Removal Vista Repair Downgrade Vista