Is talking to Taliban the right approach?

**Jason** · 03-10-2009, 02:42 PM

President Obama says the United States could be open to reaching out to some moderates in the Taliban in a manner similar to successful efforts with Sunni militants in Iraq.
U.S. forces have been engaged in fierce fighting to oust the Taliban in Afghanistan.

But two analysts Monday expressed separate cautions about such an effort.

In an interview published in The New York Times this weekend, Obama said some military leaders believe part of the success in Iraq has come from reaching out to Sunni militants there.

Regarding the Taliban in Afghanistan, the president said that while the situation is much more complex than in Iraq, "There may be some comparable opportunities in Afghanistan and Pakistan."

"If you talk to Gen. [David] Petraeus, I think he would argue that part of the success in Iraq involved reaching out to people that we would consider to be Islamic fundamentalists, but who were willing to work with us because they had been completely alienated by the tactics of al Qaeda in Iraq," he told the Times. Petraeus is the U.S. commander in the region.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/09/obama.taliban/

bry623 · 03-11-2009, 08:09 AM

Bush tried talking

"And tonight, the United States of America makes the following demands on the Taliban: Deliver to United States authorities all the leaders of al Qaeda who hide in your land. Release all foreign nationals, including American citizens, you have unjustly imprisoned. Protect foreign journalists, diplomats, and aid workers in your country. Close immediately and permanently every terrorist training camp in Afghanistan, and hand over every terrorist, and every person in their support structure, to appropriate authorities. Give the United States full access to terrorist training camps, so we can make sure they are no longer operating. These demands are not open to negotiation or discussion. The Taliban must act, and act immediately. They will hand over the terrorists, or they will share in their fate."

**EnglishPaul** · 03-11-2009, 08:42 AM

Bry, that is not conversation, that is ultimatum.

bry623 · 03-11-2009, 08:51 AM

Osama is in Afghanastan. He ordered the deaths of thousands of innocents. Cooperate or share his fate. They choose to share his fate.

OMG, I am so hard core right wing.

**bruiser** · 03-11-2009, 11:44 AM

Has anyone seen or know of any taliban members that are moderate?

RedScott · 03-11-2009, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Bush tried talking

Wrong!

The Bush administration was specifically AGAINST talking.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/a...et.us.taliban/

The Taliban wanted to talk, America wanted to drop bombs.

Quote:

Osama ..... He ordered the deaths of thousands of innocents.

Which makes him different from George Bush how, exactly?

**kinbard** · 03-11-2009, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bry623

OMG, I am so hard core right wing.

**linderman** · 03-12-2009, 06:39 AM

there is nothing "moderate" about the taliban ......................women who dont cover their face jail ................ men who shave off their beard ...... go to jail............no education for women

and you think you can "reason" with people like that ?

**kinbard** · 03-12-2009, 07:49 AM

I agree. It is near impossible to reason with any one full of hate and bent on your entire anihilation.

**sobeit** · 03-12-2009, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinbard

I agree. It is near impossible to reason with any one full of hate and bent on your entire anihilation.

at least this is what we have been lead to believe. Talking is a change from strategies of the past and those past strategies did not work. If it does not work, then bomb the living daylights out of them.

**kinbard** · 03-12-2009, 08:03 AM

Well, we can try talking, but I seriously doubt it will work. Its their way, or the highway, with a martyr that has a bomb strapped to him yelling "Allah I coming home, wheres my virgins". Bombings not going to work either. This isn't like Hiroshima and our war with Japan. We bomb them, they'll crawl out of their caves and start again. There is no end in sight. We are just going to have to let this play out. Get 'em when we can.

**simpswr** · 03-12-2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bry623

Osama is in Afghanastan. He ordered the deaths of thousands of innocents. Cooperate or share his fate. They choose to share his fate.

OMG, I am so hard core right wing.

So in response we invade Iraq? How is that working?

**EnglishPaul** · 03-12-2009, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linderman

there is nothing "moderate" about the taliban ......................women who dont cover their face jail ................ men who shave off their beard ...... go to jail............no education for women

and you think you can "reason" with people like that ?

What is the alternative? The only other way is to totally contain, or ideally annihilate them. You may as well call this "the final solution". But at what price to your conscience? Your society? Your future?

**simpswr** · 03-12-2009, 01:06 PM

Maybe we could invade Senegal?

**Fren Banklin** · 03-12-2009, 10:34 PM

We talked to Yasir Arafat and the PLO, and look how well that worked out. An example, something that we can all get behind, and aspire to achieve.

Obama is a pure foreign-relations genius. It's a gift that he was born with; possibly genetic. How else would you explain his instant credibility with the rest of the world leaders, and the long string of accomplishments he has been able to achieve in such a short period of time ?

These achievements are second only to his great economic successes. Not only are we going to have peace for our time, we're ALSO going to have a chicken in every pot - AND - 40 acres and a mule as the icing on teh cake !

And the crowd goes WILD, Ladies & Gentleman, at the Forum !

I've just been given an important notice from teh DNC:

Quote:

Effective immediately, there will be no mention of the words "Affirmative", "Action" and most importantly in conjunction with each other, as in "Affirmative Action". The use of these words has been expressly forbidden in an effort to prevent any connection being made between <forbidden phrase deleted> and the current state of Mr. Obama's Presidency. Any attempt at associating the two will be met with severe retribution.

Regards,

Teh DNC

You kiddies better watch out. I think they really mean it this time.

**Canaanabolaanan** · 03-14-2009, 10:30 PM

Hmm, really. If it is standard practice that the thick are always dealt with via bombs and obliteration, I feel as if this forum would be a bit less active. What a practical approach to rule out any form of solution-seeking other than bombs and war.

Because, hey, if every conflict in the world hasn't always 100% been resolved with talks, then we should use that as an example why talks never work. Just brilliant.

yustr · 03-15-2009, 05:56 AM

Northern Ireland

**kinbard** · 03-15-2009, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yustr

Northern Ireland

WWII as well

**EnglishPaul** · 03-15-2009, 11:13 AM

Really? You equate the deposition of the Taliban in Afghanistan with the battle against Germany and her allies in WWII?
I don't know much of American history, but I think Vietnam would be a better likeness of fighting strategy.

In the same way, Israel can bomb as much hell out of Gaza as it wants. But it won't make Gaza a nicer place to live. And it won't, ultimately, see Israel a safer place.

**Fren Banklin** · 03-15-2009, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnglishPaul

In the same way, Israel can bomb as much hell out of Gaza as it wants. But it won't make Gaza a nicer place to live. And it won't, ultimately, see Israel a safer place.

hmm, well maybe. But I do think it's really up to Isreal to make that decision, without a planet-full of arm-chair quarterbacks second-guessing the decisions a people make in order to assure their own survival, from the safety and comfort of their livingroom couch.

The same applies the US.

"Talking" to any terrorist group (or otherwise illegitimate organization), while theoretically may have some potential for constructive change, first and foremost elevates the illegitimate organization to a position of legitimacy. It affords them power.

It als provides them with the ability to exploit that power by using whatever talks may have taken place as a media springboard, providing them with opportunities that they would have had otherwise.

03-10-2009, 02:42 PM	#1 (permalink)
Jason Faugh a ballagh Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Pasco, FL Posts: 8,475 OS: Windows Vista My System Blog Entries: 2	Is talking to Taliban the right approach? President Obama says the United States could be open to reaching out to some moderates in the Taliban in a manner similar to successful efforts with Sunni militants in Iraq. U.S. forces have been engaged in fierce fighting to oust the Taliban in Afghanistan. But two analysts Monday expressed separate cautions about such an effort. In an interview published in The New York Times this weekend, Obama said some military leaders believe part of the success in Iraq has come from reaching out to Sunni militants there. Regarding the Taliban in Afghanistan, the president said that while the situation is much more complex than in Iraq, "There may be some comparable opportunities in Afghanistan and Pakistan." "If you talk to Gen. [David] Petraeus, I think he would argue that part of the success in Iraq involved reaching out to people that we would consider to be Islamic fundamentalists, but who were willing to work with us because they had been completely alienated by the tactics of al Qaeda in Iraq," he told the Times. Petraeus is the U.S. commander in the region. http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/09/obama.taliban/ __________________ Posting Tips \| Advice for New People \| Common Fixes \| Agus na damnaithe fágtha gan focal Glaoigh ormsa i measc na naomh

03-11-2009, 08:09 AM	#2 (permalink)
bry623 Manager, The Conversation Pit/Analyst, Security Team Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: NW Territory circa 1787 Posts: 11,692 OS: winxp pro sp2	Re: Is talking to Taliban the right approach? Bush tried talking "And tonight, the United States of America makes the following demands on the Taliban: Deliver to United States authorities all the leaders of al Qaeda who hide in your land. Release all foreign nationals, including American citizens, you have unjustly imprisoned. Protect foreign journalists, diplomats, and aid workers in your country. Close immediately and permanently every terrorist training camp in Afghanistan, and hand over every terrorist, and every person in their support structure, to appropriate authorities. Give the United States full access to terrorist training camps, so we can make sure they are no longer operating. These demands are not open to negotiation or discussion. The Taliban must act, and act immediately. They will hand over the terrorists, or they will share in their fate." __________________ "If you aren't a liberal when you're 20, you have no heart. If you aren't a conservative when you are 50, you have no brain"

03-11-2009, 08:42 AM	#3 (permalink)
EnglishPaul Still no avatar Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sheffield Posts: 1,314 OS: XP SP2 Blog Entries: 9	Re: Is talking to Taliban the right approach? Bry, that is not conversation, that is ultimatum.

03-11-2009, 08:51 AM	#4 (permalink)
bry623 Manager, The Conversation Pit/Analyst, Security Team Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: NW Territory circa 1787 Posts: 11,692 OS: winxp pro sp2	Re: Is talking to Taliban the right approach? Osama is in Afghanastan. He ordered the deaths of thousands of innocents. Cooperate or share his fate. They choose to share his fate. OMG, I am so hard core right wing. __________________ "If you aren't a liberal when you're 20, you have no heart. If you aren't a conservative when you are 50, you have no brain"

03-11-2009, 11:44 AM	#5 (permalink)
bruiser TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,973 OS: xp	Re: Is talking to Taliban the right approach? Has anyone seen or know of any taliban members that are moderate?

03-12-2009, 06:39 AM	#8 (permalink)
linderman Moderator, Hardware Team Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 20,433 OS: win 2000 pro / Win XP pro My System	Re: Is talking to Taliban the right approach? there is nothing "moderate" about the taliban ......................women who dont cover their face jail ................ men who shave off their beard ...... go to jail............no education for women and you think you can "reason" with people like that ? __________________ I still know nothing and I respect that fact, striving to improve and, along the way, help anyone that comes from the place that I used to be! Power Supply Selection LEARN TO BACK-UP YOUR DATA FREE & EASY YouTube - Runtime Software DriveImage XML tutorial

03-12-2009, 07:49 AM	#9 (permalink)
kinbard TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 3,459 OS: Experimenter	Re: Is talking to Taliban the right approach? I agree. It is near impossible to reason with any one full of hate and bent on your entire anihilation. __________________ Half viking, half pirate, stronger than both XP Repair Malware Removal Vista Repair Downgrade Vista

03-12-2009, 08:03 AM	#11 (permalink)
kinbard TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 3,459 OS: Experimenter	Re: Is talking to Taliban the right approach? Well, we can try talking, but I seriously doubt it will work. Its their way, or the highway, with a martyr that has a bomb strapped to him yelling "Allah I coming home, wheres my virgins". Bombings not going to work either. This isn't like Hiroshima and our war with Japan. We bomb them, they'll crawl out of their caves and start again. There is no end in sight. We are just going to have to let this play out. Get 'em when we can. __________________ Half viking, half pirate, stronger than both XP Repair Malware Removal Vista Repair Downgrade Vista

03-12-2009, 01:06 PM	#14 (permalink)
simpswr Moderator Hardware Team Join Date: May 2007 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 12,206 OS: XP, Vista, Win 7	Re: Is talking to Taliban the right approach? Maybe we could invade Senegal? __________________ Rich MemTest86 \| BenchTest \| Virus/Trojan/Spyware Help How to post a Screen Shot \| PC running slow?

03-14-2009, 10:30 PM	#16 (permalink)
Canaanabolaanan TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 560 OS: XP Pro SP3	Re: Is talking to Taliban the right approach? Hmm, really. If it is standard practice that the thick are always dealt with via bombs and obliteration, I feel as if this forum would be a bit less active. What a practical approach to rule out any form of solution-seeking other than bombs and war. Because, hey, if every conflict in the world hasn't always 100% been resolved with talks, then we should use that as an example why talks never work. Just brilliant.

03-15-2009, 05:56 AM	#17 (permalink)
yustr Asst. Manager, The Conversation Pit Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Connecticut shore Posts: 6,040 OS: XP Pro My System	Re: Is talking to Taliban the right approach? Northern Ireland __________________ If there are lawyers or politicians involved, logic may be a very poor tool for reaching a conclusion.

03-15-2009, 11:13 AM	#19 (permalink)
EnglishPaul Still no avatar Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sheffield Posts: 1,314 OS: XP SP2 Blog Entries: 9	Re: Is talking to Taliban the right approach? Really? You equate the deposition of the Taliban in Afghanistan with the battle against Germany and her allies in WWII? I don't know much of American history, but I think Vietnam would be a better likeness of fighting strategy. In the same way, Israel can bomb as much hell out of Gaza as it wants. But it won't make Gaza a nicer place to live. And it won't, ultimately, see Israel a safer place.