Nik00117

Do you think we are going to leave Iraq ever?

I don't heres why, we got a base in the middle east why give it up? Its an outpost that we can use in case we have too, its like adding another card to the deck of cards we currently have.

In fact after Iraq, I would not be surpise to see us getting invovle in a conflict in Africa. Maybe fighting down in Sudan, because the military has expressed interseted in a African command post.

What do ya think?

RedScott

We're not leaving until we're bankrupt anyway.

yustr

There are plenty of people who think that this was Bush's primary purpose for invading in the first place.

Corollary: We need to close all of our bases in Europe...who's the enemy there?

Nik00117

That person is an idiot, without my base our soliders would be forced to be flown directly from Iraq to America, with time lag, and travel time thats simply too much to ask.

The reason why Germany is so important in the war in Iraq is because its a mdi way station between Amercia and Iraq, Corollary needs to be taught those lessons before she goes off talking about things we he/she has no idea about.

yustr

Nik, watch your personal attacks.

My view is that we should not be in Iraq at all so having the bases in Germany to serve as a layover is superfluous. And even if I did accept your reasoning, which I don't, does it take 75,000 soldiers to run a hotel and a hospital? Also, if your argument is valid - which it isn't - why cannot the base be in another NATO country (England or Turkey say) and maned by our allies?

Face it, its simply a form of foreign aid...It has been since at least 1989. (And probably before but I don't want to start on the BS associated with the Cold War.)

Nik00117

Actually Yustr we have bases in England and NATO.

And 75,000 poeple do not run one base on in germany, in the local region there is about 6 or 7 of them with 55,000 americans in, 55,000 americans nto faimlies.

Um the reason why the base was established at first was to help Geramny rebuild, sepcially right after the war we needed a strong presnce here.

Quite frankly having overseas bases, and I will not watch my personall attacks when I see a person speaking about a subject which they know nothing about.

sandman55

The war in Iraq is about Oil, and if George Bush had used his head he would have spent the money he has spent on the war on research into alternative energy, which would have been better for the planet and there would not have been the terrible loss of lives.

bry623

If the war in iraq is about oil, then why is gas so high. That sounds like such a liberal tag line.

RedScott

Because Neo-Cons are dumb and they thought getting oil from war is cheaper than buying it forthright. They were wrong. Oh well.

bry623

The question was as rhetorical as your response was not well thought out or supported.

RedScott

o burn son!

yustr

Nik, Yes you will or you not be around here long. Read the rules of the PS. TSF is a technical forum and we're only allowed to have this side area because bry623 and I were able to convince management that we'd not let it get out of had. I think all can agree that it is a lot more cordial and restrained than most political forums. We will not let one person ruin it for the rest of us. Consider yourself warned...

yustr

cstr20cstr

Have any proof you care to share with us that the U.S. is "taking" oil from Iraq "for free" ???
Or have any proof someone intended to do that ?

RedScott

Uh, have any proof you care to share with me that I said the U.S. is "taking" oil from Iraq "for free"?

sandman55

I dont know about the price of petrol but the worry was if Saddam was overthrown or ever defeated by Iran, the Sunni's being the majority (the same as Iran) would align with Iran or be controlled by Iran and then they would have control of the oil.

The trouble now is if the US moves out of Iraq the door will be well and truly open for Iran.

I'm afraid Bush stuffed up because he had a plan for winning the war but no plan for the peace, he would have been better off to have kept out of Iraq and the money he has spent on the war, he could have spent that on research into alternative energy and then not be so dependent on the middle east. Also so many lives wouldn't have been lost, on both sides.

yustr

I don't think you can say this war was about oil. Surely that played a part but the US gets only about 20% of our oil from the ME and most of that from our friends in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. Europe is much more dependent on ME oil than the US.

So what was it about? Who the <TWIBAT> knows? It started well before Bush as even elected. Back in the mid-1990's Cheney, Rumsfeld were urging Clinton to over throw Saddam. ( LINK) They're stated reasons:
So oil clearly played a major part. But so does being Israel's lapdog. (The mention of "moderate Arab states" is just verbal camouflage.)

But since then?

The reasons changed so often that even those who made the decisions got confused. WMD's - nope, we meant Saddam. Saddam - nope we meant democracy's foothold. Purple thumbs - nope, we meant al-qaeda. Al-qaeda - nope we meant regional stability (aka Iran).

And the band played on...

sandman55

Ok so it wasn't just as simple as oil and yes there were others that played a part but we went in for the wrong reasons, yes Saddam was a <Twibat> but so is Mugabe and we are not in there. We were told in Australia that it was because of WMD but the truth came out later that they knew that was not the case.
We have been lucky in Australia but sadly there has been a lot of lost lives on both sides.

Chode

Most likely, there is always going to be a U.S. presence in Iraq. Nik's right here. No matter how much most American's want us to leave, some of our allies don't want us to disengage completely. Even if they won't admit it openly. There are also factions in Iraq itself that want us there.

The Kurds (even after George H. Bush lied to them and left them swinging in the breeze) trust us more than the non-Kurdish majority in Iraq. Turkey is concerned about the Kurdish separatist movement in Turkey, and would like to see U.S. troops as a buffer between the Kurdish populations of Turkey and Iraq. Iraqi Sunnis see the U.S. as a protector against the Shiite majority in Iraq, and the Shiite state of Iran. As do the Sunni dominated Arab Gulf States.

The bottom line is that the U.S. is likely to be in Iraq indefinitely, but the sooner we move to surrender responsibility and control for internal security to the Iraqis and confine our military presence to specific areas, the better for all concerned. For all the Soviet and Cuban rhetoric, Guantanamo Bay never faced an overt military threat, and I think this may be a model for our future operations in Iraq.

sandman55

It was a mistake to go into Iraq in the first place but now I don't see the US (who are the major presence) pulling out soon. If they do, it will be like Vietnam all over again (we shouldn't have been there either)
Here are two lines from a piece of poetry that I wrote the emphasis is on "political agendas".

"Mother’s tears have run, in rivers through all time
From political agendas, that carry out the crime"

linderman

anyone who "thinks" oil has nothing to do with the IRAQ war; selects to be closed minded.

The Bush "people" are nothing but oil

Condi Rice was the former CEO of Chevron

Haliburton feeds off the war like a vulture on a big carcass (without bidding for contracts)

we we will be there forever just like bases in germany, japan, phillipines, South Korea ever where we have foot prints of the past

as for the Sudan, you can forget that; they have nothing we want! $$$$


in declassified NSA documents as far back as Ronald Regan, ALL conversations regarding Iraq and Iran & actions / policies all immediatley linked to the flow of oil in the persian gulf and the care that must be taken not to disrupt the flow of oil

why are our Gas prices high >>>>> thats a great question BRY given in a time when all corporate america is struggling to stay alive and being forced to cook the books to keep afloat and borrowing money, we have the oil industry recording the largest profits in the history of america, and unlike Jimmy Carter who splapped them with a "windfalls profit tax" back in the late 70's then they tried that "low oil supply" trick >>>>> ole GW refuses to let congress do anything, with his big hammer waiting for a Veto

coupled with the fact the US companies would rather sell oil in Europe where its nearly twice as expensive

there is no ONE factor with Iraq, the Israeli lap dog is also a very accurate summation

but one thing is for sure, the country of america is a trickle down goverment, and whats really good for america is rather low on the list of agenda's, money runs this country and its politics you want answers, then open your eyes and begin to look for "who" benefits from any action the goverment does >>>>> dont think it will be really clear, there will be alot of smoke and alot of rhetoric to "hide' the trail of money

one thing for sure, we are now forced to be there for a looooooong time to come



thats why I am thrilled at the prospect that Rudy G. has a good shot, he is a penny theif compared to what we have now and the very entrenched Hillary