Blair steps down as Brown steps up

**carsey** · 06-27-2007, 07:30 AM

Tony Blair has stood down as UK prime minister after 10 years in the job.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6243558.stm

Lets hope Brown can sort out the mess that Blair got us into.

**scathe30** · 06-27-2007, 07:33 AM

Well, I think you are into the times of some change (as it always happens when the government alters)

**nickster_uk** · 06-27-2007, 07:34 AM

Not a Blair fan then Chris?

I think he was/is a good politician but some of the choices he made were not very good in hindsight. I'm not refering the Iraq as any British leader from any party would've done the same based on the evidence to hand...no one can deny that. I am talking about how he conducted himself with 'Dubya'. He had the chance to be more forthright with Britains interests but it came across kinda poorly in the end.

Also, under Blair, we did actually see a lot of good but many people don't want to concentrate on that and just think of the war.

**carsey** · 06-27-2007, 07:47 AM

Thankfully, Brown is going to focus on the NHS, which needs a huge amount of attention. My grandad got a infection from carelessness and died early hours of this morning. Its a shame to see how people get infections from basic operations and die.

No Nick, Im not a blair fan. Going to Iraq was completely unnecessary and lives taken for nothing.

**nickster_uk** · 06-27-2007, 07:56 AM

Really sorry to hear about your Grandad Chris..unforunately, that kinda thing thing happens far too much these days and it just goes to show how poorly the NHS is run at administration level. The cash is being injected but very poorly managed but the PM cannot really take the blame for that, the Health Secretary can though and the pen pushers at the healthcare trusts must also shoulder the blame for how the money is spent at the front line.

As for the war...hindsight is great isn't it?? No PM would've done it differently. At the time, all party's were in support so if they were in power, the same would've happened.

**TheAtheist** · 06-27-2007, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickster_uk

As for the war...hindsight is great isn't it?? No PM would've done it differently. At the time, all party's were in support so if they were in power, the same would've happened.

Well if the evidence wasnt falfisfied or "sexed up" then maybe they wouldnt have. I think he was an ok leader until Iraq.

**nickster_uk** · 06-27-2007, 09:59 AM

Ok...but it wasn't Blair who 'sexed' it up though. The same info would've been handed to whoever was in charge at the time. He acted on it...and don't forget the UN Resolutions either.

I think he is about as sincere as a PM is/was ever will be...you only have to look at Bono and Bob Geldof's comments on him. Neither will praise a politician for no reason and they've both defended Blair for his work reagrding Africa and the climate. Blair stuck his neck on the line whilst others refused to help the rest of the world.

Plus there has been positives closer to home regarding investment into public services, the welfare state etc....it's not going to please all the people all of the time etc etc etc

bry623 · 06-27-2007, 10:13 AM

You don't think he is going to be Blair's monkey?

**carsey** · 06-27-2007, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickster_uk

Neither will praise a politician for no reason and they've both defended Blair for his work reagrding Africa and the climate. Blair stuck his neck on the line whilst others refused to help the rest of the world.

Is that the ridiculous congestion charge in London and other areas???? Its just a form of stealth tax, to try and earn the governments a few more notes. And none goes back into the road safety.

**nickster_uk** · 06-27-2007, 10:51 AM

Hmmm wasn't that Ken Livingston's call?? Nothing to do with Blair.

cadge · 06-28-2007, 12:02 PM

What does everyone think of Brown's new cabinet?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6247502.stm

Biggest surprise for me was Alistair Darling as Chanceollor, I'd have though Ed Balls was a dead cert.

**nickster_uk** · 06-28-2007, 02:58 PM

Time will tell I suppose and we've gotta give them a chance...some wouldn't have been my first (or second) choices but i'm sure Brown knows what he's doing (or at least thinks he does)

Zazula · 06-29-2007, 08:03 PM

Tariq Ali echoes many of my sentiments on the issue:

Quote:

TONY Blair's success was limited to winning three general elections in a row. A second-rate actor, he turned out to be a crafty and avaricious politician, but without much substance; bereft of ideas, he eagerly grasped and tried to improve upon the legacy of Margaret Thatcher.

But though in many ways Blair's program has been a euphemistic, if bloodier, version of Thatcher's, the style of their departures is very different. Thatcher's overthrow by her fellow Conservatives was a matter of high drama: an announcement outside the Louvre's glass pyramid during the Paris Congress brokering the end of the Cold War; tears; a crowded House of Commons.

Blair makes his unwilling exit against a backdrop of car bombs and mass carnage in Iraq, with hundreds of thousands left dead or maimed from his policies, and London a prime target for terrorist attack. Thatcher's supporters described themselves afterwards as horror-struck by what they had done. Even Blair's greatest sycophants in the British media confess to a sense of relief at his departure.

Blair was always loyal to the various occupants of the White House. In Europe, he preferred Aznar to Zapatero, Merkel to Schroder, was seriously impressed by Berlusconi and, most recently, made no secret of his desire that Sarkozy was his candidate in France. He understood that privatisation/deregulation at home were part of the same mechanism as the wars abroad.

If this judgment seems unduly harsh, let me quote Rodric Braithwaite, a former senior adviser to Blair, writing in the Financial Times on August 2, 2006: "Blair has done more damage to British interests in the Middle East than Anthony Eden, who led the UK to disaster in Suez 50 years ago. In the past 100 years - to take the highlights - we have bombed and occupied Egypt and Iraq, put down an Arab uprising in Palestine and overthrown governments in Iran, Iraq and the Gulf. We can no longer do these things on our own, so we do them with the Americans. Blair's total identification with the White House has destroyed his influence in Washington, Europe and the Middle East itself: who bothers with the monkey if he can go straight to the organ-grinder?"

This, too, is mild compared to what is said about Blair in the British Foreign Office and the Ministry of Defence. Senior diplomats have told me on more than one occasion that it would not upset them too much if Blair were to be tried as a war criminal. More cultured critics sometimes compare him to the Cavaliere Cipolia, the vile hypnotist of fascist Italy, so brilliantly portrayed in Thomas Mann's 1929 novel Mario and the Magician. Blair is certainly not Mussolini, but like the Duce he enjoyed to simultaneously lead and humiliate his supporters.

What much of this reveals is anger and impotence. There is no mechanism to get rid of a sitting prime minister unless his or her party loses confidence. The Conservative leadership decided that Thatcher simply had to go because of her negative attitude to Europe. Labour tends to be more sentimental towards its leaders and in this case they owed so much to Blair that nobody close to him wanted to be cast in the role of Brutus.

In the end, he decided to go himself. The disaster in Iraq had made him a much-hated politician, and slowly support began to ebb. One reason for the slowness was that the country is without a serious opposition. In parliament, the Conservatives simply followed Blair. The Liberal-Democrats were ineffective.

Blair summed up Britain's attitude to Europe at Nice in 2000: "It is possible, in our judgment, to fight Britain's corner, get the best out of Europe for Britain and exercise real authority and influence in Europe. That is as it should be. Britain is a world power."

This grotesque, self-serving fantasy that "Britain is a world power" is to justify that it will always be EU/UK. The real union is with Washington. France and Germany are seen as rivals for Washington's affections, not potential allies in an independent EU. The French decision to re-integrate into NATO and pose as the most vigorous US ally was a serious structural shift that weakened Europe.

Britain responded by encouraging a fragmented political order in Europe through expansion, and insisted on a permanent US presence on the continent.

Blair's successor, Gordon Brown, is more intelligent (he reads books) but politically no different. There will be a change of tone, but little else. It is a grim prospect with or without Blair and an alternative, radical politics is confined to the nationalist parties in Scotland and Wales.

Its absence nationally fuels the anger felt by substantial sections of the population, reflected in voting (or not) against those in power.

**nickster_uk** · 06-30-2007, 07:17 AM

Hahaha...if that wasn't meant to come across as satire, then Tariq Ali needs to get a new career in comedy writing

06-27-2007, 07:30 AM	#1 (permalink)
carsey Moderator, TSF Articles Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Hunwick, Co. Durham England Posts: 10,678 OS: XP Pro SP3 My System	Blair steps down as Brown steps up Tony Blair has stood down as UK prime minister after 10 years in the job. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6243558.stm Lets hope Brown can sort out the mess that Blair got us into. __________________ Submit New Articles Here

06-27-2007, 07:33 AM	#2 (permalink)
scathe30 Land of bears and vodka Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Russia, Moscow Posts: 837 OS: MacOs,Windows	Re: Blair steps down as Brown steps up Well, I think you are into the times of some change (as it always happens when the government alters) __________________ The moving finger writes; and having writ Moves on, nor all thy Piety, nor Wit Shall lure it back to cancel half a line Nor all thy Tears wash out a word of it...

06-27-2007, 07:34 AM	#3 (permalink)
nickster_uk Moderator, Microsoft Support, Happy to support TSF! Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7,043 OS: XP Pro SP3, Windows 7 Ultimate, Ubuntu v8.04 My System	Re: Blair steps down as Brown steps up Not a Blair fan then Chris? I think he was/is a good politician but some of the choices he made were not very good in hindsight. I'm not refering the Iraq as any British leader from any party would've done the same based on the evidence to hand...no one can deny that. I am talking about how he conducted himself with 'Dubya'. He had the chance to be more forthright with Britains interests but it came across kinda poorly in the end. Also, under Blair, we did actually see a lot of good but many people don't want to concentrate on that and just think of the war. __________________ My system: ASUS P5K-E WiFi \| Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz (OC 3.60GHz) \| 4GB Corsair DDR2 XMS2-6400C4 RAM (4-4-4-12) \| PowerColor ATI Radeon HD 3850 Pro Xtreme 512MB GDDR3 GPU \| Maxtor DiamondMax 22 500GB, Maxtor DiamondMax 23 500GB & 2xMaxtor DiamondMax 21 250GB SATA HDDs \| Thermaltake CL-P0114 Heatsink + 6 LED Case Fans \| Corsair HX620W Modular PSU \| Enermax Black Knight (CS-527) Case \| Pioneer DVR-216 SATA 20x20 DVD±RW In a world without walls or fences - who needs Windows and Gates?

06-27-2007, 07:47 AM	#4 (permalink)
carsey Moderator, TSF Articles Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Hunwick, Co. Durham England Posts: 10,678 OS: XP Pro SP3 My System	Re: Blair steps down as Brown steps up Thankfully, Brown is going to focus on the NHS, which needs a huge amount of attention. My grandad got a infection from carelessness and died early hours of this morning. Its a shame to see how people get infections from basic operations and die. No Nick, Im not a blair fan. Going to Iraq was completely unnecessary and lives taken for nothing. __________________ Submit New Articles Here

06-27-2007, 07:56 AM	#5 (permalink)
nickster_uk Moderator, Microsoft Support, Happy to support TSF! Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7,043 OS: XP Pro SP3, Windows 7 Ultimate, Ubuntu v8.04 My System	Re: Blair steps down as Brown steps up Really sorry to hear about your Grandad Chris..unforunately, that kinda thing thing happens far too much these days and it just goes to show how poorly the NHS is run at administration level. The cash is being injected but very poorly managed but the PM cannot really take the blame for that, the Health Secretary can though and the pen pushers at the healthcare trusts must also shoulder the blame for how the money is spent at the front line. As for the war...hindsight is great isn't it?? No PM would've done it differently. At the time, all party's were in support so if they were in power, the same would've happened. __________________ My system: ASUS P5K-E WiFi \| Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz (OC 3.60GHz) \| 4GB Corsair DDR2 XMS2-6400C4 RAM (4-4-4-12) \| PowerColor ATI Radeon HD 3850 Pro Xtreme 512MB GDDR3 GPU \| Maxtor DiamondMax 22 500GB, Maxtor DiamondMax 23 500GB & 2xMaxtor DiamondMax 21 250GB SATA HDDs \| Thermaltake CL-P0114 Heatsink + 6 LED Case Fans \| Corsair HX620W Modular PSU \| Enermax Black Knight (CS-527) Case \| Pioneer DVR-216 SATA 20x20 DVD±RW In a world without walls or fences - who needs Windows and Gates?

06-27-2007, 09:59 AM	#7 (permalink)
nickster_uk Moderator, Microsoft Support, Happy to support TSF! Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7,043 OS: XP Pro SP3, Windows 7 Ultimate, Ubuntu v8.04 My System	Re: Blair steps down as Brown steps up Ok...but it wasn't Blair who 'sexed' it up though. The same info would've been handed to whoever was in charge at the time. He acted on it...and don't forget the UN Resolutions either. I think he is about as sincere as a PM is/was ever will be...you only have to look at Bono and Bob Geldof's comments on him. Neither will praise a politician for no reason and they've both defended Blair for his work reagrding Africa and the climate. Blair stuck his neck on the line whilst others refused to help the rest of the world. Plus there has been positives closer to home regarding investment into public services, the welfare state etc....it's not going to please all the people all of the time etc etc etc __________________ My system: ASUS P5K-E WiFi \| Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz (OC 3.60GHz) \| 4GB Corsair DDR2 XMS2-6400C4 RAM (4-4-4-12) \| PowerColor ATI Radeon HD 3850 Pro Xtreme 512MB GDDR3 GPU \| Maxtor DiamondMax 22 500GB, Maxtor DiamondMax 23 500GB & 2xMaxtor DiamondMax 21 250GB SATA HDDs \| Thermaltake CL-P0114 Heatsink + 6 LED Case Fans \| Corsair HX620W Modular PSU \| Enermax Black Knight (CS-527) Case \| Pioneer DVR-216 SATA 20x20 DVD±RW In a world without walls or fences - who needs Windows and Gates?

06-27-2007, 10:13 AM	#8 (permalink)
bry623 Manager, The Conversation Pit/Analyst, Security Team Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: NW Territory circa 1787 Posts: 11,692 OS: winxp pro sp2	Re: Blair steps down as Brown steps up You don't think he is going to be Blair's monkey? __________________ "If you aren't a liberal when you're 20, you have no heart. If you aren't a conservative when you are 50, you have no brain"

06-27-2007, 10:51 AM	#10 (permalink)
nickster_uk Moderator, Microsoft Support, Happy to support TSF! Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7,043 OS: XP Pro SP3, Windows 7 Ultimate, Ubuntu v8.04 My System	Re: Blair steps down as Brown steps up Hmmm wasn't that Ken Livingston's call?? Nothing to do with Blair. __________________ My system: ASUS P5K-E WiFi \| Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz (OC 3.60GHz) \| 4GB Corsair DDR2 XMS2-6400C4 RAM (4-4-4-12) \| PowerColor ATI Radeon HD 3850 Pro Xtreme 512MB GDDR3 GPU \| Maxtor DiamondMax 22 500GB, Maxtor DiamondMax 23 500GB & 2xMaxtor DiamondMax 21 250GB SATA HDDs \| Thermaltake CL-P0114 Heatsink + 6 LED Case Fans \| Corsair HX620W Modular PSU \| Enermax Black Knight (CS-527) Case \| Pioneer DVR-216 SATA 20x20 DVD±RW In a world without walls or fences - who needs Windows and Gates?

06-28-2007, 12:02 PM	#11 (permalink)
cadge Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Scotland Posts: 151 OS: Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty Jackalope)	Re: Blair steps down as Brown steps up What does everyone think of Brown's new cabinet? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6247502.stm Biggest surprise for me was Alistair Darling as Chanceollor, I'd have though Ed Balls was a dead cert.

06-28-2007, 02:58 PM	#12 (permalink)
nickster_uk Moderator, Microsoft Support, Happy to support TSF! Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7,043 OS: XP Pro SP3, Windows 7 Ultimate, Ubuntu v8.04 My System	Re: Blair steps down as Brown steps up Time will tell I suppose and we've gotta give them a chance...some wouldn't have been my first (or second) choices but i'm sure Brown knows what he's doing (or at least thinks he does) __________________ My system: ASUS P5K-E WiFi \| Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz (OC 3.60GHz) \| 4GB Corsair DDR2 XMS2-6400C4 RAM (4-4-4-12) \| PowerColor ATI Radeon HD 3850 Pro Xtreme 512MB GDDR3 GPU \| Maxtor DiamondMax 22 500GB, Maxtor DiamondMax 23 500GB & 2xMaxtor DiamondMax 21 250GB SATA HDDs \| Thermaltake CL-P0114 Heatsink + 6 LED Case Fans \| Corsair HX620W Modular PSU \| Enermax Black Knight (CS-527) Case \| Pioneer DVR-216 SATA 20x20 DVD±RW In a world without walls or fences - who needs Windows and Gates?

06-30-2007, 07:17 AM	#14 (permalink)
nickster_uk Moderator, Microsoft Support, Happy to support TSF! Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7,043 OS: XP Pro SP3, Windows 7 Ultimate, Ubuntu v8.04 My System	Re: Blair steps down as Brown steps up Hahaha...if that wasn't meant to come across as satire, then Tariq Ali needs to get a new career in comedy writing __________________ My system: ASUS P5K-E WiFi \| Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz (OC 3.60GHz) \| 4GB Corsair DDR2 XMS2-6400C4 RAM (4-4-4-12) \| PowerColor ATI Radeon HD 3850 Pro Xtreme 512MB GDDR3 GPU \| Maxtor DiamondMax 22 500GB, Maxtor DiamondMax 23 500GB & 2xMaxtor DiamondMax 21 250GB SATA HDDs \| Thermaltake CL-P0114 Heatsink + 6 LED Case Fans \| Corsair HX620W Modular PSU \| Enermax Black Knight (CS-527) Case \| Pioneer DVR-216 SATA 20x20 DVD±RW In a world without walls or fences - who needs Windows and Gates?