The Koran actually advises against the wearing of burkas

**40sondacurb** · 12-01-2006, 02:51 PM

[33.59] O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran...V0&byte=650389

That's not even vague, it's a clear call for women to be identifiable i.e. no burkas. Those who advocate the wearing of them in support of the rampant injustice Muhammad rose to rectify.

yustr · 12-01-2006, 06:34 PM

Another example of what happens when you take fairy tale literature full of legend and dogma and call it absolute inerent truth.

Just like the Bible, I'm sure the Koran has been through all manner of translation and interpretation/revision over the years, mostly to empower whomever is in position of authority at that moment.

Quote:

Religion is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. K. Marx

**40sondacurb** · 12-01-2006, 07:49 PM

Please, Islam may look conservative today but when it came out it was a liberalizing force that changed things for the better.

The fact that these people are still pushing the wearing of burkas after Muhammad advised against them is an indicator of how deeply seeded their backwardness was. But within relatively few years after the introduction and acceptance of Islam those countries that had accepted it grew to be the greatest centers of knowledge and civilization in the entire world.

It's the fault of man, his limitations, and lack of education that at the time the Koran and Bible were written, outward forms and symbols had to be used to convey intellectual conceptions. The majority of symbols and parables are interpreted correctly, but it only stands to probability that over time select passages would be misconstrued and others forgotten.

You don't blame the water when the dam breaks or the sun when someone erects a parasol, and you don't blame knowledge for causing stupidity.

~~jeffdrummer~~ · 12-01-2006, 08:59 PM

Don't they have the knowledge now? I think that they may not have had the knowledge in the past is no excuse for them being wrong now.

I think the whole point is moot, because under Sharia law women are not supposed to show their faces.

bry623 · 12-04-2006, 11:33 AM

And at my house, they don't speak their minds if they know what's gooe for them!

~~jeffdrummer~~ · 12-04-2006, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bry623

And at my house, they don't speak their minds if they know what's gooe for them!

You mean that you will decapitate a women for speaking against her husband in accordance with Sharia law? Boy that's harse.

Did you know that in Sharia law, if a man even accuses his wife of cheating, she will be killed by decapitation. If someone steals they got one hand, and the legs on the opposite side of the lost hand chopped off.

I heard an interviewer with "the #1" person who carries out these punishments in Iran on CNN. What they do in the name of Sharia law is disgusting, and sadly, mainstream in their "relgion of peace." Peace my eye!

navmed · 03-21-2007, 04:21 PM

Here is a better translation:

O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allâh is Ever Oft*Forgiving, Most Merciful

jeffdrummer, where are you pulling this information from? There is no law in the Sharia that mentions anything of the sort. According to the Sharia, all a man can do is divorce her.

You are partially right about stealing - but it's only the hand that is cut off for the first offence and and the value of the stolen object has to be higher than a certain amount.

What they do in Iran or anywhere else in the name of religion has little to do with the religion itself.

**40sondacurb** · 03-21-2007, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by navmed

Here is a better translation:

O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allâh is Ever Oft*Forgiving, Most Merciful

jeffdrummer, where are you pulling this information from? There is no law in the Sharia that mentions anything of the sort. According to the Sharia, all a man can do is divorce her.

You are partially right about stealing - but it's only the hand that is cut off for the first offence and and the value of the stolen object has to be higher than a certain amount.

What they do in Iran or anywhere else in the name of religion has little to do with the religion itself.

I've seen several different translations, but they all imply that the person should be able to be recognized in case a crime is committed.

navmed · 03-21-2007, 06:03 PM

Quote:

I've seen several different translations, but they all imply that the person should be able to be recognized in case a crime is committed.

Agreed. Also different crimes require different numbers of eye-witnesses.

cstr20cstr · 03-21-2007, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffdrummer

You mean that you will decapitate a women for speaking against her husband in accordance with Sharia law? Boy that's harse.

Did you know that in Sharia law, if a man even accuses his wife of cheating, she will be killed by decapitation. If someone steals they got one hand, and the legs on the opposite side of the lost hand chopped off.

I heard an interviewer with "the #1" person who carries out these punishments in Iran on CNN. What they do in the name of Sharia law is disgusting, and sadly, mainstream in their "relgion of peace." Peace my eye!

It's funny how the NOW (national organization for women) hates Bush so much, they'd rather see Iraqi women lose the freedom's they've gained since the U.S. liberated them, just because they hate "right-wing" Bush so much :
http://www.now.org/press/01-07/01-24a.html
NOW is a political organization, NOT an organization "for" women.

**40sondacurb** · 03-21-2007, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by navmed

Agreed. Also different crimes require different numbers of eye-witnesses.

But in the end you need to see someone's face to recognize them. Also Jeff has been gone for some time (hence the line through his name) and won't be able to respond, so replying to him is a little like beating a dead hoarce

~~Nik00117~~ · 03-24-2007, 04:16 PM

Quote:

It's funny how the NOW (national organization for women) hates Bush so much, they'd rather see Iraqi women lose the freedom's they've gained since the U.S. liberated them, just because they hate "right-wing" Bush so much :

Its one thing to have freedom, and loose it.

Its quite another thing to never have it.

Iraq is a lost cause, we should set a timetable and only hope it all works out.

navmed · 03-25-2007, 09:21 AM

I very much doubt if the Iraqis are happier with the situation now or in the foreseeable future, than they were even the evil dictator Saddam. I wouldn't call the situation there right now freedom or anything remotely close to it.

~~ahmed eid~~ · 11-20-2009, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 40sondacurb

[33.59] O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran...V0&byte=650389

That's not even vague, it's a clear call for women to be identifiable i.e. no burkas. Those who advocate the wearing of them in support of the rampant injustice Muhammad rose to rectify.

We to be even more blunt, when did the use of burkas start? 1970! why, am i to understand the muslim world all of a sudden found it in the text......

~~ahmed eid~~ · 11-20-2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffdrummer

Don't they have the knowledge now? I think that they may not have had the knowledge in the past is no excuse for them being wrong now.

I think the whole point is moot, because under Sharia law women are not supposed to show their faces.

And where did the sharia law come from? the koran? you have given a very hard statement! Can you proven this by quoting the statement from the koran, where it clearly says or backs your statement! And not just any quote from the koran that is ambiguous and can be interpreted how a person wants?

Unfortunately that is the problem with the koran it can be interpreted however the person wants it! there are pages that says not to kill and it is a sin to kill and turn over the page it say to proclaim jihad! THAT IS WHAT I READ! it gives 2 different messages!!!!

**djaburg** · 11-20-2009, 04:52 PM

Wow..resurrecting an old thread are we? A two year old thread coming back to haunt us...

~~ahmed eid~~ · 11-20-2009, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yustr

Another example of what happens when you take fairy tale literature full of legend and dogma and call it absolute inerent truth.

Just like the Bible, I'm sure the Koran has been through all manner of translation and interpretation/revision over the years, mostly to empower whomever is in position of authority at that moment.

It is clear that you are giving an opinion that is based on your belief and not on fact, and research! Have you read the bible and the Koran? how much history do you know?
Know this, and don't answer like a scoffing fool! Everyone thought that the bible was changed but when the "Dead sea scrolls " were found the bible of today is almost word for word! How can you make such an ignorant statement!, Second the Koran is written in the Arab classic language which when translated into any other language loses its proper translation. Second it is said that Mohamed was given the Koran by an angel. Since he was illiterate it is "said" he had a perfect memory and others wrote it down on different objects like papyrus, stone, leather. The Koran was put together after Mohamed died around late 600AD, later in 750-800AD a short hand of the Koran was written and published. This short hand when read in the Arab language can have over 30 different meanings! I though a Bible is supposed to be instructional not confusing! So the Koran is not as straight forward!

Because the Koran is ambiguous and is left to the person to interpret and select hi/her meaning it is used today for war or peace!
Where the Bible is self interpreting. If you read the Bible and try to interpret it it is wrong. The Bible will give you all straight forward explanations. I have proven this for my self over the last 15years of studying it, and it is irefutable!

**SABL** · 11-20-2009, 05:04 PM

Ahmed,

Pleaseread the sticky note at the top of this forum. Certain topics are off limits at this time. Thank you.

12-01-2006, 02:51 PM	#1 (permalink)
40sondacurb Don't be a menace Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,285 OS: Vista sp2	The Koran actually advises against the wearing of burkas [33.59] O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran...V0&byte=650389 That's not even vague, it's a clear call for women to be identifiable i.e. no burkas. Those who advocate the wearing of them in support of the rampant injustice Muhammad rose to rectify. __________________ Donate to keep the forum running Last edited by 40sondacurb; 12-01-2006 at 03:38 PM.

12-01-2006, 07:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
40sondacurb Don't be a menace Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,285 OS: Vista sp2	Please, Islam may look conservative today but when it came out it was a liberalizing force that changed things for the better. The fact that these people are still pushing the wearing of burkas after Muhammad advised against them is an indicator of how deeply seeded their backwardness was. But within relatively few years after the introduction and acceptance of Islam those countries that had accepted it grew to be the greatest centers of knowledge and civilization in the entire world. It's the fault of man, his limitations, and lack of education that at the time the Koran and Bible were written, outward forms and symbols had to be used to convey intellectual conceptions. The majority of symbols and parables are interpreted correctly, but it only stands to probability that over time select passages would be misconstrued and others forgotten. You don't blame the water when the dam breaks or the sun when someone erects a parasol, and you don't blame knowledge for causing stupidity. __________________ Donate to keep the forum running Last edited by 40sondacurb; 12-01-2006 at 08:03 PM.

12-04-2006, 11:33 AM	#5 (permalink)
bry623 Manager, The Conversation Pit/Analyst, Security Team Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: NW Territory circa 1787 Posts: 11,698 OS: winxp pro sp2	And at my house, they don't speak their minds if they know what's gooe for them! __________________ "If you aren't a liberal when you're 20, you have no heart. If you aren't a conservative when you are 50, you have no brain"

03-21-2007, 04:21 PM	#7 (permalink)
navmed Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3 OS: xp	Re: The Koran actually advises against the wearing of burkas Here is a better translation: O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allâh is Ever Oft*Forgiving, Most Merciful jeffdrummer, where are you pulling this information from? There is no law in the Sharia that mentions anything of the sort. According to the Sharia, all a man can do is divorce her. You are partially right about stealing - but it's only the hand that is cut off for the first offence and and the value of the stolen object has to be higher than a certain amount. What they do in Iran or anywhere else in the name of religion has little to do with the religion itself.

03-25-2007, 09:21 AM	#13 (permalink)
navmed Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3 OS: xp	Re: The Koran actually advises against the wearing of burkas I very much doubt if the Iraqis are happier with the situation now or in the foreseeable future, than they were even the evil dictator Saddam. I wouldn't call the situation there right now freedom or anything remotely close to it.

12-01-2006, 08:59 PM	#4 (permalink)
~~jeffdrummer~~ Register user Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 870 OS: MAC OS X 10.4.8, and 10.5!! WinXP SP2	Don't they have the knowledge now? I think that they may not have had the knowledge in the past is no excuse for them being wrong now. I think the whole point is moot, because under Sharia law women are not supposed to show their faces.

11-20-2009, 04:52 PM	#16 (permalink)
djaburg TSF Enthusiast Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,321 OS: XP SP3/Vista/7 Server 2K/2K3/2K8	Re: The Koran actually advises against the wearing of burkas Wow..resurrecting an old thread are we? A two year old thread coming back to haunt us... __________________ Computers make it easier to do a lot of things, but most of the things they make it easier to do don't need to be done. The inherent vice of capitalism is the uneven division of blessings, while the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal division of misery.

11-20-2009, 05:04 PM	#18 (permalink)
SABL Moderator Relaxation Room Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Galena, Ohio Posts: 1,249 OS: WinXP SP3	Re: The Koran actually advises against the wearing of burkas Ahmed, Pleaseread the sticky note at the top of this forum. Certain topics are off limits at this time. Thank you. __________________ Every rose has it's thorn