Statement made at HS football game

newhouse1390 · 07-20-2006, 08:41 PM

This is a statement that was read over the PA system at the football game at Roane County High School, Kingston, Tennessee, by school Principal, Jody
McLeod.

"It has always been the custom at Roane County High School football games, to say a prayer and play the National Anthem, to honor God and Country."

Due to a recent ruling by the Supreme Court, I am told that saying a Prayer is a violation of Federal Case Law.
As I understand the law at this time, I
can use this public facility to approve of sexual perversion and call it "an alternate lifestyle," and if someone is offended, that's OK.

I can use it to condone sexual promiscuity, by dispensing condoms and calling it, "safe sex." If someone is offended, that's OK.

I can even use this public facility to present the merits of killing an unborn baby as a "viable means of birth control." If someone is offended, no problem...

I can designate a school day as "Earth Day" and involve students in activities to worship religiously and praise the goddess "Mother Earth" and call it "ecology."

I can use literature, videos and presentations in the classroom that depicts people with strong, traditional Christian convictions as "simple minded" and
"ignorant" and call it "enlightenment."

However, if anyone uses this facility to honor GOD and to ask HIM to Bless this event with safety and good sportsmanship, then Federal Case Law is
violated.

This appears to be inconsistent at best, and at worst, diabolical. Apparently, we are to be tolerant of everything and anyone, except GOD and HIS Commandments.

Nevertheless, as a school principal, I frequently ask staff and students to abide by rules with which they do not necessarily agree. For me to do otherwise would be inconsistent at best, and at worst, hypocritical... I suffer from that affliction enough unintentionally. I certainly do not need to add an intentional transgression.

For this reason, I shall "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's," and refrain from praying at this time.

"However, if you feel inspired to honor, praise and thank GOD and ask HIM, in the name of JESUS, to Bless this event, please feel free to do so. As far as I know, that's not against the law----yet."

One by one, the people in the stands bowed their heads, held hands with one another and began to pray.

They prayed in the stands. They prayed in the team huddles. They prayed at the concession stand and they prayed in the Announcer's Box!

The only place they didn't pray was in the Supreme Court of the United States of America - the Seat of "Justice" in the "one nation, under GOD."

Somehow, Kingston, Tennessee remembered what so many have forgotten. We are given the Freedom OF Religion, not the Freedom FROM Religion. Praise GOD that HIS remnant remains!

JESUS said, "If you are ashamed of ME before men, then I will be ashamed of you before MY FATHER."

**twajetmech** · 07-20-2006, 08:48 PM

Can I get an A-men !

yustr · 07-21-2006, 07:11 AM

Can I hear it for a narrow-minded, repressive, egocentric, naive, plagiarizing principal?

I wonder what her graduation rate is? How about the pregnancy rate in her HS? I wonder how Panji, or Moshe, or Ahmed, or Li Ping felt about it? (Actually that is not really an issue because Jesus was never mentioned in that announcement.)

The objection is not to prayer. The objection is to forced prayer of the current predominant religion. How would you Christians feel if Principal McLeod had been a Buddist and added reference to his teachings to the announcement?

The purposes of civil rights laws are to protect the minority FROM the majority.

I find all of this really disingenuous; kids are in school only 16% of the time. No one will object if parents decide to devote any or all of the remaining 84% to worship. The real reason anyone promotes prayers in schools is because they like the fact that the kids are captured in one place. And it’s another area where parents have abdicated their responsibility. Can’t let going to church interfere with watching Dale Jr. at Daytona so what the heck, let the schools do it.

**-=Rousseau=-** · 07-21-2006, 09:03 AM

He didn't force them to pray... He didn't even pray. He just shared his opinion and told people to feel free to pray. Their choice.

v-six · 07-21-2006, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -=Rousseau=-

He didn't force them to pray... He didn't even pray. He just shared his opinion and told people to feel free to pray. Their choice.

No, he didn't force them to pray, but that's not really the issue here. Prayer in schools is a tough issue. If you want to be a patriot about it, you look back to what to why many of the originals settlers here came for.. freedom from religious persecution. You can look at it two ways:
1: we should be free to freely practice our religious beliefs without persecution.

2: The schools should be allowed to hold prayer in school.

The first is what this country is all about. If you want to practice your religion, no one should say otherwise. But if you are going to force students to pray (again, I'm not saying he did this... he didn't) that's a different story, and that's why the law exists. Imagine if a non-Christian became president, and all of the sudden your Christian child was forced to say prayers of a different religion... how would you feel about it?

**40sondacurb** · 07-21-2006, 11:29 AM

Not everyone is Christian you know, so asking for help "in the name of JESUS" may offend some or just make them feel left out.

You want to say "Bless this team and I pray that we win this game" that's not illegal it doesn't favor any particular denomination. Even an atheist would have a hard time whining over that, but when you say something like "in the name of JESUS" it's pretty plain to see you're coming from a Christian position.

The_Silent_One · 07-21-2006, 12:16 PM

The problem with debates regarding "religious" issues is that religion is often poorly defined. I don't believe that you can easily be religion neutral.

The best definition of religion that I have heard is domething like this:

1. Where do I come from
2. What happens to me when I die
3. What am I supposed to do in the meantime

All people have answers to these 3 questions, (although some answers are a little unclear), hence all people are equally religious. If people would realize this, they would start asking different questions, and would realize that religion is always being propogated.

bry623 · 07-21-2006, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by U.S. Constitution

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion....

....neither should they disrespect it. For a public employee to invoke religion should be against the law. But they should not forbid anyone else from doing so. unless it involves illegal activities.

daminox · 07-26-2006, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yustr

Can I hear it for a narrow-minded, repressive, egocentric, naive, plagiarizing principal?

I wonder what her graduation rate is? How about the pregnancy rate in her HS? I wonder how Panji, or Moshe, or Ahmed, or Li Ping felt about it? (Actually that is not really an issue because Jesus was never mentioned in that announcement.)

The objection is not to prayer. The objection is to forced prayer of the current predominant religion. How would you Christians feel if Principal McLeod had been a Buddist and added reference to his teachings to the announcement?
What would happen? Everyone would be mad as heck and then the Christians would be the ones taking the school and it's announcer to court!

The purposes of civil rights laws are to protect the minority FROM the majority.
I will remember this statement for the rest of my days. Well put!

I find all of this really disingenuous; kids are in school only 16% of the time. No one will object if parents decide to devote any or all of the remaining 84% to worship. The real reason anyone promotes prayers in schools is because they like the fact that the kids are captured in one place. And it’s another area where parents have abdicated their responsibility. Can’t let going to church interfere with watching Dale Jr. at Daytona so what the heck, let the schools do it.
LOL very well put!

Quote:

Originally Posted by 40sondacurb

Not everyone is Christian you know, so asking for help "in the name of JESUS" may offend some or just make them feel left out.

You want to say "Bless this team and I pray that we win this game" that's not illegal it doesn't favor any particular denomination. Even an atheist would have a hard time whining over that, but when you say something like "in the name of JESUS" it's pretty plain to see you're coming from a Christian position.
I'm an athiest and such a statement (in bold) doesn't offend me in the least bit. Everyone is free to express their religiosity, but to assume that everyone has the same beliefs of your own religion is just offensive and egocentric.

Quote:

Originally Posted by newhouse1390

As I understand the law at this time, I
can use this public facility to approve of sexual perversion and call it "an alternate lifestyle," and if someone is offended, that's OK.
But if the announcer had instead said "Now, all players on the field must kiss each other to show love and peace amongst all participants in today's game", then you would be upset, right? Not everyone is gay, just like not everyone is a Christian or believes in what you do.

I can use it to condone sexual promiscuity, by dispensing condoms and calling it, "safe sex." If someone is offended, that's OK.
I just graduated 12-yr public school, and at no point during our Health/Life Education courses were condoms ever dispensed or promoted.

I can even use this public facility to present the merits of killing an unborn baby as a "viable means of birth control." If someone is offended, no problem...
If anyone and everything is free to reproduce without restriction, then all livestock, inmates, and pets should be set free (and allowed to reproduce) and hunting should be outlawed. Rape would no longer be recognized as a crime. Doctors would be jailed if they failed to save a dying person's life. All instances of reproduction would be justified and the death penalty would no longer exist. If you truely want to promote life, not death, then this is how it would be.

I can designate a school day as "Earth Day" and involve students in activities to worship religiously and praise the goddess "Mother Earth" and call it "ecology."
Um, in your religion, dont you believe that Earth and the Universe were created by God? However, you do not believe in a holiday dedicated to preserving this planet that HE created and populated? You have quite and ego, to praise a God for your own life but not give a crap about the one planet that future generations of humans, for the next thousand years, will have to live on. By the way, at no time in my life have i heard of a "goddess" by the name of mother earth. Yes, it's referred to as a "mother", and countless countries have referred to their native soil as the "motherland" or "fatherland." If you think some patriotism is a threat to your religion, then you have some issues of your own that you need to work out.

However, if anyone uses this facility to honor GOD and to ask HIM to Bless this event with safety and good sportsmanship, then Federal Case Law is
violated.
So you'd have no problem with a Jewish announcer? What about a buddist one? Hey, the guys in the KKK have feelings and beliefs too, right? Let's let them make some announcements at your football game (by the way, in no way am i linking the KKK to Judaism, Buddism, Christianity, or any other religion. My only comparison is that they are all establisments with their own sets of beliefs that they are free to express but not impose.)

This appears to be inconsistent at best, and at worst, diabolical. Apparently, we are to be tolerant of everything and anyone, except GOD and HIS Commandments.
You must not be very religious at all, because i thought truely devout people could not mentally comprehend letting a simple court case put their beliefs into question. You have both problems with your ego and problems with your own religious devoutness. If you truely believed what you worship, you would not have posted what you did, which obviously intends to put this news article into a full-blown debate on these forums. If you truely believed what you worship, you would not desire any kind of debate, as debates consist of two sides of an arguement shining light on their own views and opinions, opinions that you clearly dont care about.

Nevertheless, as a school principal, I frequently ask staff and students to abide by rules with which they do not necessarily agree.
So why did you post here?

They prayed in the stands. They prayed in the team huddles. They prayed at the concession stand and they prayed in the Announcer's Box!
So, you're saying that the majority should overrule any sort of minority?

Somehow, Kingston, Tennessee remembered what so many have forgotten. We are given the Freedom OF Religion, not the Freedom FROM Religion. Praise GOD that HIS remnant remains!
You have a very weak relationship with God if you need a High School football announcer to enforce your own beliefs.

JESUS said, "If you are ashamed of ME before men, then I will be ashamed of you before MY FATHER."
Did you include this quote with the assumption that everyone on these forums believes in Jesus? You're letting your own devotism cloud your mind of compassion, understanding, and tolerance. A true man of God would embrace his fellow man for what they are, not what you want them to be (or want them to believe in).

bry623 · 07-31-2006, 11:29 AM

If you were dylexic as well you wouldn't believe in DOG

07-20-2006, 08:41 PM	#1 (permalink)
newhouse1390 Member, Networking Team Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,040 OS: Windows Server 2003	Statement made at HS football game This is a statement that was read over the PA system at the football game at Roane County High School, Kingston, Tennessee, by school Principal, Jody McLeod. "It has always been the custom at Roane County High School football games, to say a prayer and play the National Anthem, to honor God and Country." Due to a recent ruling by the Supreme Court, I am told that saying a Prayer is a violation of Federal Case Law. As I understand the law at this time, I can use this public facility to approve of sexual perversion and call it "an alternate lifestyle," and if someone is offended, that's OK. I can use it to condone sexual promiscuity, by dispensing condoms and calling it, "safe sex." If someone is offended, that's OK. I can even use this public facility to present the merits of killing an unborn baby as a "viable means of birth control." If someone is offended, no problem... I can designate a school day as "Earth Day" and involve students in activities to worship religiously and praise the goddess "Mother Earth" and call it "ecology." I can use literature, videos and presentations in the classroom that depicts people with strong, traditional Christian convictions as "simple minded" and "ignorant" and call it "enlightenment." However, if anyone uses this facility to honor GOD and to ask HIM to Bless this event with safety and good sportsmanship, then Federal Case Law is violated. This appears to be inconsistent at best, and at worst, diabolical. Apparently, we are to be tolerant of everything and anyone, except GOD and HIS Commandments. Nevertheless, as a school principal, I frequently ask staff and students to abide by rules with which they do not necessarily agree. For me to do otherwise would be inconsistent at best, and at worst, hypocritical... I suffer from that affliction enough unintentionally. I certainly do not need to add an intentional transgression. For this reason, I shall "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's," and refrain from praying at this time. "However, if you feel inspired to honor, praise and thank GOD and ask HIM, in the name of JESUS, to Bless this event, please feel free to do so. As far as I know, that's not against the law----yet." One by one, the people in the stands bowed their heads, held hands with one another and began to pray. They prayed in the stands. They prayed in the team huddles. They prayed at the concession stand and they prayed in the Announcer's Box! The only place they didn't pray was in the Supreme Court of the United States of America - the Seat of "Justice" in the "one nation, under GOD." Somehow, Kingston, Tennessee remembered what so many have forgotten. We are given the Freedom OF Religion, not the Freedom FROM Religion. Praise GOD that HIS remnant remains! JESUS said, "If you are ashamed of ME before men, then I will be ashamed of you before MY FATHER." __________________ Because you can read this thank a teacher, because it's English thank a soldier.

07-20-2006, 08:48 PM	#2 (permalink)
twajetmech I helped the forums. Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: LGA, NYC Posts: 2,388 OS: XP-Pro Sp2 & XP-Pro Sp2 Tablet Edition, Vista Ultimate My System	Can I get an A-men ! __________________ PSU Selection/Info // Bench test // Thermal Paste // Memory Selection // Bios Beep Codes // CPU-Z// Posting System Specs

07-21-2006, 07:11 AM	#3 (permalink)
yustr Asst. Manager, The Conversation Pit Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Connecticut shore Posts: 6,064 OS: XP Pro My System	Can I hear it for a narrow-minded, repressive, egocentric, naive, plagiarizing principal? I wonder what her graduation rate is? How about the pregnancy rate in her HS? I wonder how Panji, or Moshe, or Ahmed, or Li Ping felt about it? (Actually that is not really an issue because Jesus was never mentioned in that announcement.) The objection is not to prayer. The objection is to forced prayer of the current predominant religion. How would you Christians feel if Principal McLeod had been a Buddist and added reference to his teachings to the announcement? The purposes of civil rights laws are to protect the minority FROM the majority. I find all of this really disingenuous; kids are in school only 16% of the time. No one will object if parents decide to devote any or all of the remaining 84% to worship. The real reason anyone promotes prayers in schools is because they like the fact that the kids are captured in one place. And it’s another area where parents have abdicated their responsibility. Can’t let going to church interfere with watching Dale Jr. at Daytona so what the heck, let the schools do it. __________________ If there are lawyers or politicians involved, logic may be a very poor tool for reaching a conclusion.

07-21-2006, 11:29 AM	#6 (permalink)
40sondacurb Don't be a menace Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,285 OS: Vista sp2	Not everyone is Christian you know, so asking for help "in the name of JESUS" may offend some or just make them feel left out. You want to say "Bless this team and I pray that we win this game" that's not illegal it doesn't favor any particular denomination. Even an atheist would have a hard time whining over that, but when you say something like "in the name of JESUS" it's pretty plain to see you're coming from a Christian position. __________________ Donate to keep the forum running

07-31-2006, 11:29 AM	#10 (permalink)
bry623 Manager, The Conversation Pit/Analyst, Security Team Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: NW Territory circa 1787 Posts: 11,713 OS: winxp pro sp2	If you were dylexic as well you wouldn't believe in DOG __________________ "If you aren't a liberal when you're 20, you have no heart. If you aren't a conservative when you are 50, you have no brain"

07-21-2006, 09:03 AM	#4 (permalink)
-=Rousseau=- Biker, Geek and Jock Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Nashvegas Posts: 827 OS: Windows 7 Ultimate My System	He didn't force them to pray... He didn't even pray. He just shared his opinion and told people to feel free to pray. Their choice.

07-21-2006, 12:16 PM	#7 (permalink)
The_Silent_One Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4 OS: Windows XP SP2	The problem with debates regarding "religious" issues is that religion is often poorly defined. I don't believe that you can easily be religion neutral. The best definition of religion that I have heard is domething like this: 1. Where do I come from 2. What happens to me when I die 3. What am I supposed to do in the meantime All people have answers to these 3 questions, (although some answers are a little unclear), hence all people are equally religious. If people would realize this, they would start asking different questions, and would realize that religion is always being propogated.