Warrantless phone tapping is legal?

ebackhus · 05-18-2006, 03:13 PM

NSA says that they were legally tapping phone lines in order to identify internal terrorists and NOT to spy on Americans.

Clicky.

Bull.

**bruiser** · 05-18-2006, 03:25 PM

You realize these phone taps were not domestic phone taps, don't you? You should know that the USA Today story might not be true, as Bell South and Verizon have both said they haven't turned any domestic phone records over. Yet the Bush haters keep bringing it up despite what Bell South and Verizon have said. This might be a sting operation. Someone may have put that story out in order to smoke out who is involved in leaking classified info.

**forcifer** · 05-18-2006, 03:32 PM

=.= people dont understand :they are NOT listening to conversations, they are looking at WHO is calling. the person who made the bill said so, but the press doesnt think that is good enough

**40sondacurb** · 05-18-2006, 11:19 PM

You don't know what the hell they're doing. Nixon wasn't that long ago people, and yuo can't always count on there to be a whistle blower.

MicroBell · 05-19-2006, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruiser

You realize these phone taps were not domestic phone taps, don't you? You should know that the USA Today story might not be true, as Bell South and Verizon have both said they haven't turned any domestic phone records over. Yet the Bush haters keep bringing it up despite what Bell South and Verizon have said. This might be a sting operation. Someone may have put that story out in order to smoke out who is involved in leaking classified info.

Bruiser,

I find this quite interesting as I'm not going to go into the "Bush Bashing" about this issue..but you need read the statements released by Bell South and Verizon VERY carefully as it's worded a certain way.

For example:

BellSouth said in a statement that it doesn't contract with the National Security Agency to supply customer calling information.

Quote:

"As a result of media reports that BellSouth provided massive amounts of customer calling information under a contract with the NSA," it said Monday, "the company conducted an internal review to determine the facts. Based on our review to date, we have confirmed no such contract exists and we have not provided bulk customer calling records to the NSA."

This is interesting as they refer to an NSA Contract. No one cares if they had a contract or not. If they turned over ANY customer data (OF ANY KIND) to the NSA without a court order or a FISA order they violated the law. You would then need to determine what they mean by "bulk customer calling records". See...it's a word play.

When they were asked to define that statement...they said...

Quote:

"We are not providing any information to the NSA, period."

Now...AT&T admitted to supplying info to NSA. Is it not resonable to think that each Bell South, Verizon, and AT&T all got the same worded request from the NSA? There's just to many unanswered questions but it doesn't look good when both Bell South and Verizon had prior knowledge of this report but said nothing until the public outcry 5 days later. Somethings fishy about this whole thing.

**bruiser** · 05-19-2006, 06:56 AM

MicroBell, have you read the latest from BellSouth?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060518/...bellsouth_dc_1

**MunkyPhil** · 05-19-2006, 07:51 AM

Why do people keep electing morons to be at the height of power in the US?! Morons who actually defend themselves and others when they are blatently doing something wrong. While I'm at it, why the £$%&@ stupid £$%&@>< damn £$%&@# fat &%#@£$ hell did I vote Labour!!? Who the hell do I think I am!? I must be out of my mind.

Successrealm · 05-19-2006, 09:22 AM

"Why do people keep electing morons to be at the height of power in the US?! Morons who actually defend themselves and others when they are blatently doing something wrong. While I'm at it, why the £$%&@ stupid £$%&@>< damn £$%&@# fat &%#@£$ hell did I vote Labour!!? Who the hell do I think I am!? I must be out of my mind."
MunkyPhil

Because we here in America would rather sit on our fat, McDonald's laden "Supersized" asses while watching "American Idol", than to ACTUALLY get informed as to the idiot's we "elect" into power.

We elected a failure...and ended up with a failure. We elected the same men with him who gave us Watergate, Iran-Contra, etc., and now we seem to not be able to get up off our asses to CHANGE these things.

When WE...realize they work for us, all will change. When WE hold ourselves accountable, we can cease listening to their excuses for screwing us over, and hold THEM accountable.

People have no clue as to what History shows us all, in the realm of taking "liberties and freedoms" in the name of "security"...

**forcifer** · 05-19-2006, 09:36 AM

well if Gore or Kerry got elected, what would happen? neither of them were that smart either. If we pull out of Iraq now, we can expect more terrorist attacks on our country. it was a mistake, but we cant stop now.

Successrealm · 05-19-2006, 10:12 AM

"well if Gore or Kerry got elected, what would happen? neither of them were that smart either. If we pull out of Iraq now, we can expect more terrorist attacks on our country. it was a mistake, but we cant stop now."
Forcifer

As for the "IF" of a Kerry or Gore? We shouldn't be discussing "if's". "IF'S" aren't the reality of the NOW......Why does one always have to instantly revert to "wellllllll, if Kerry woulda'"......?
I could care less what "might" have been, when we have the glaring reality of what IS. I cannot say for sure, but one would assume that Kerry or Gore wouldn't have attacked IRAQ, and Occupied her, after we were attacked on 911. What a horrendous blunder. It's like attacking Sweden, after the attack on Pearl Harbour.

As for Iraq and "we can expect more attacks if we pull out"? Says WHO? Everyone in the know, fully understands that Occupation in Iraq (and that IS, what it is) is only hurting our chances for a successful "war on terror". The CIA and the men on the ground have been repeatedly stating that we are creating three, for everyone one we kill. We are never going to win in Iraq, with that simple, obvious math.

We had the will of the entire world on 911, and what happened to it? It was BLOWN, by attacking and occupying Iraq.

Iraqi's DO NOT want us there. Our presence, as occupiers, has fueled terrorist recruitments. It also has been shown and stated that the vast majority of those attacking us (up to 90 percent), are not foreign as the administration claimed, but IRAQI'S. The Iraqi PEOPLE.
OCCUPATION, is the problem...

You state it was a mistake, but we can't stop now? What are we doing there? OCCUPATION. So we continue a mistake, while continuing to erode any chance of a successful war on terror? The world sees this as an occupation, and it is building more resentment and increasing the odds of us getting attacked again. No one is wanting to back down on the "terrorists", but we are holding an entire nation hostage with an occupation.
We cannot continue to tell ourselves that we are passing on "democracy" by the barrel of a gun, and not expect a measure of Blowback.
We cannot be an example, BY this example...

bry623 · 05-19-2006, 11:39 AM

Your non-American spelling of Harbor, and the fact that you are in Sweeden, tend to nullify your protests about the American governement. There has to be less than 500 Swedish troops there. No offense intended, but that would be like me telling my wife, "I know it sucks when we get cramps, but I don't think we should be occupy blood ceels with Midol."

I applaud the president's resolve to eradicate terrorism from the planet. Too bad I can't elect him to a third term..........

Successrealm · 05-19-2006, 11:59 AM

Your non-American spelling of Harbor, and the fact that you are in Sweeden, tend to nullify your protests about the American governement. There has to be less than 500 Swedish troops there. No offense intended, but that would be like me telling my wife, "I know it sucks when we get cramps, but I don't think we should be occupy blood ceels with Midol."
bry623

That's it? Your entire argument is based on a SPELLING incident?
Grow up....WOW!

Then, you go off on ANOTHER ridiuculous rant about me being Swedish?
Where did I ever state that I was from Sweden?
You ASSume quite a bit bry....

In fact, I am an AMERICAN, and served with the AMERICAN military for 8 years of my life (I'm 38 now...)

Likewise, you didn't even get involved in the discussion I responded to...

"I applaud the president's resolve to eradicate terrorism from the planet. Too bad I can't elect him to a third"

I applaud ANY man's resolve to eradicate terrorism, but HIS method's are *** backwards. You would ACTUALLY continue to allow this idiot to screw this country for ANOTHER four years? Now I understand who I'm dealing with...
Before you ASSume that I'm a "librul", I'm going to "pre empt" you and inform you that I'm a TRUE conservative, who puts COUNTRY, before party. America doesn't deserve the failures this admin has given us.
Jesus.....29 percent.

**40sondacurb** · 05-19-2006, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bry623

Your non-American spelling of Harbor, and the fact that you are in Sweeden, tend to nullify your protests about the American governement. There has to be less than 500 Swedish troops there. No offense intended, but that would be like me telling my wife, "I know it sucks when we get cramps, but I don't think we should be occupy blood ceels with Midol."

I applaud the president's resolve to eradicate terrorism from the planet. Too bad I can't elect him to a third term..........

D'Nile isn't just a river in egypt.

and Successrealm if you use the quote button on the post you want to adress it will automatically quote that person.

Successrealm · 05-19-2006, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 40sondacurb

and Successrealm if you use the quote button on the post you want to adress it will automatically quote that person.

ahhhhhh Thanks....

yustr · 05-19-2006, 12:47 PM

Time to talk a breath guys.....it's getting to personal so please play nice...

**gamerman0203** · 05-19-2006, 01:06 PM

the one thing that we all need to realize is that no one man is perfect; demacrat or republican. There are how many millions of people in the US? There is no one man that is going to please us all 100% of the time. In Bush's 6 years so far, he has had to face more than almost any president. Granted there have been other wars before this one, much larger wars. But the thing people need to realize is that since WWII the public psyche has changed drasticly! In WWII when Pearle Harbor was attacked, everyone was for kicking the crap out of the people who did it. Now, when innocent civilians are attacked in the countries largest city, again everyone was wanting to kick the enemies @ss. But that changed as soon as our troops started dying. That is a fact of war people! When MILLIONS died in WWII protecting our freedom, we were glad to have them there to save us. Now all we want to do is pull our troops out and let that part of the world grow evil again so we can get slaughtered again later.

Anyways, my point being to all of this is that, yes, Bush has made some mistakes. So did clinton, roosevelt, garfield, heck I'm sure Washington partied like it was 1776 once or twice!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bry623

I applaud the president's resolve to eradicate terrorism from the planet. Too bad I can't elect him to a third term..........

Amen

P.S. This is why I don't get involved in Politics. Opinions and closed minds can be the two most potent ingredients in wars.

Successrealm · 05-19-2006, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamerman0203

the one thing that we all need to realize is that no one man is perfect; demacrat or republican. There are how many millions of people in the US? There is no one man that is going to please us all 100% of the time. In Bush's 6 years so far, he has had to face more than almost any president. Granted there have been other wars before this one, much larger wars. But the thing people need to realize is that since WWII the public psyche has changed drasticly! In WWII when Pearle Harbor was attacked, everyone was for kicking the crap out of the people who did it. Now, when innocent civilians are attacked in the countries largest city, again everyone was wanting to kick the enemies @ss. But that changed as soon as our troops started dying. That is a fact of war people! When MILLIONS died in WWII protecting our freedom, we were glad to have them there to save us. Now all we want to do is pull our troops out and let that part of the world grow evil again so we can get slaughtered again later.

Anyways, my point being to all of this is that, yes, Bush has made some mistakes. So did clinton, roosevelt, garfield, heck I'm sure Washington partied like it was 1776 once or twice!

Amen

America didn't have a problem backing this administration after 911. It was the administration, that lost America's support, as well as the world's, by going and attacking IRAQ, then OCCUPYING it.

America STILL want's revenge, which we haven't gotten.
That, is the problem. America has no probelm backing war, but NOT an occupation and being bogged down with a country that doesn't want us there, AGAIN. THAT, is the problem......

Bush and this admin have not only been a mistake in that arena, but practically EVERY aspect of his 6 years has been a disaster.
They have been horrendous in spending, the border, healthcare, deficit, Debt, trade, rights, Drug Costs, Unity, Allies, big govt........everything that WAS "conservatism".He hasn't made "mistakes", he's made DISASTERS.

MicroBell · 05-19-2006, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruiser

MicroBell, have you read the latest from BellSouth?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060518/...bellsouth_dc_1

Yes sir I did. It still leaves questions as to what they did. Just because they deny it now..and demand a retract..dosn't mean they didn't do it. Did you notice Verizon's reply?

Quote:

Verizon has also denied it was approached by the NSA and had a contract to provide the agency with data from its customers' telephone records. But the company has declined to comment on whether it gave the NSA access to its records.

What I highlighted in bold. Does that not raise a RED flag?

**forcifer** · 05-19-2006, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Successrealm

America didn't have a problem backing this administration after 911. It was the administration, that lost America's support, as well as the world's, by going and attacking IRAQ, then OCCUPYING it.

America STILL want's revenge, which we haven't gotten.
That, is the problem. America has no probelm backing war, but NOT an occupation and being bogged down with a country that doesn't want us there, AGAIN. THAT, is the problem......

did Germany enjoy being occupyied? did Japan? did italy? i dont think so. but they all brought it on them selves, so they have to pay for it. its how life works: what you do to others will be done to you. its also a part of a prayer, but that isnt political. saying Bush made a mistake is the same as saying FDR made a mistake

**bruiser** · 05-19-2006, 08:32 PM

There is no ambiguity or weasel words in Bell South's statements. Unless other evidence arises, I'll believe Bell South.

As for Verizon, the following link contains the full press release. You'll notice they do deny they gave the NSA access to customer records or call data. Now, there is something in that release that would make one wonder if maybe there is something other than what was reported going on. Or, is Verizon having some fun with the press?

http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/16/news...izon_statement

AT&T is being quiet. I haven't seen or heard anything from them.

05-18-2006, 03:13 PM	#1 (permalink)
ebackhus Manager, Design Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: SATX Posts: 14,265 OS: WinXP Pro SP3/Windows 7 RTM My System Blog Entries: 28	Warrantless phone tapping is legal? NSA says that they were legally tapping phone lines in order to identify internal terrorists and NOT to spy on Americans. Clicky. Bull. __________________ ----------------------------- There are no dumb questions, unless a customer is asking them. Help in the fight against cancer and other serious illnesses.

05-18-2006, 03:32 PM	#3 (permalink)
forcifer Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kansas City kansas Posts: 3,627 OS: Vista Premium 32 My System Blog Entries: 1	=.= people dont understand :they are NOT listening to conversations, they are looking at WHO is calling. the person who made the bill said so, but the press doesnt think that is good enough __________________ now i remember

05-18-2006, 11:19 PM	#4 (permalink)
40sondacurb Don't be a menace Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,285 OS: Vista sp2	You don't know what the hell they're doing. Nixon wasn't that long ago people, and yuo can't always count on there to be a whistle blower. __________________ Donate to keep the forum running

05-19-2006, 07:51 AM	#7 (permalink)
MunkyPhil TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Liverpool, England Posts: 1,140 OS: Win XP Pro SP2 My System	Why do people keep electing morons to be at the height of power in the US?! Morons who actually defend themselves and others when they are blatently doing something wrong. While I'm at it, why the £$%&@ stupid £$%&@>< damn £$%&@# fat &%#@£$ hell did I vote Labour!!? Who the hell do I think I am!? I must be out of my mind. __________________ "Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds." - J. Robert Oppenheimer, July 16th 1945. CPU-z -- Memtest -- Speedfan -- Prime95 -- SandraLite Important Power Supply Info -- Applying Thermal Paste -- Posting System Specs

05-19-2006, 09:36 AM	#9 (permalink)
forcifer Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kansas City kansas Posts: 3,627 OS: Vista Premium 32 My System Blog Entries: 1	well if Gore or Kerry got elected, what would happen? neither of them were that smart either. If we pull out of Iraq now, we can expect more terrorist attacks on our country. it was a mistake, but we cant stop now. __________________ now i remember

05-18-2006, 03:25 PM	#2 (permalink)
bruiser TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,973 OS: xp	You realize these phone taps were not domestic phone taps, don't you? You should know that the USA Today story might not be true, as Bell South and Verizon have both said they haven't turned any domestic phone records over. Yet the Bush haters keep bringing it up despite what Bell South and Verizon have said. This might be a sting operation. Someone may have put that story out in order to smoke out who is involved in leaking classified info.

05-19-2006, 06:56 AM	#6 (permalink)
bruiser TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,973 OS: xp	MicroBell, have you read the latest from BellSouth? http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060518/...bellsouth_dc_1

05-19-2006, 09:22 AM	#8 (permalink)
Successrealm Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Richmond, Virginia Posts: 19 OS: XP	"Why do people keep electing morons to be at the height of power in the US?! Morons who actually defend themselves and others when they are blatently doing something wrong. While I'm at it, why the £$%&@ stupid £$%&@>< damn £$%&@# fat &%#@£$ hell did I vote Labour!!? Who the hell do I think I am!? I must be out of my mind." MunkyPhil Because we here in America would rather sit on our fat, McDonald's laden "Supersized" asses while watching "American Idol", than to ACTUALLY get informed as to the idiot's we "elect" into power. We elected a failure...and ended up with a failure. We elected the same men with him who gave us Watergate, Iran-Contra, etc., and now we seem to not be able to get up off our asses to CHANGE these things. When WE...realize they work for us, all will change. When WE hold ourselves accountable, we can cease listening to their excuses for screwing us over, and hold THEM accountable. People have no clue as to what History shows us all, in the realm of taking "liberties and freedoms" in the name of "security"...

05-19-2006, 10:12 AM	#10 (permalink)
Successrealm Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Richmond, Virginia Posts: 19 OS: XP	"well if Gore or Kerry got elected, what would happen? neither of them were that smart either. If we pull out of Iraq now, we can expect more terrorist attacks on our country. it was a mistake, but we cant stop now." Forcifer As for the "IF" of a Kerry or Gore? We shouldn't be discussing "if's". "IF'S" aren't the reality of the NOW......Why does one always have to instantly revert to "wellllllll, if Kerry woulda'"......? I could care less what "might" have been, when we have the glaring reality of what IS. I cannot say for sure, but one would assume that Kerry or Gore wouldn't have attacked IRAQ, and Occupied her, after we were attacked on 911. What a horrendous blunder. It's like attacking Sweden, after the attack on Pearl Harbour. As for Iraq and "we can expect more attacks if we pull out"? Says WHO? Everyone in the know, fully understands that Occupation in Iraq (and that IS, what it is) is only hurting our chances for a successful "war on terror". The CIA and the men on the ground have been repeatedly stating that we are creating three, for everyone one we kill. We are never going to win in Iraq, with that simple, obvious math. We had the will of the entire world on 911, and what happened to it? It was BLOWN, by attacking and occupying Iraq. Iraqi's DO NOT want us there. Our presence, as occupiers, has fueled terrorist recruitments. It also has been shown and stated that the vast majority of those attacking us (up to 90 percent), are not foreign as the administration claimed, but IRAQI'S. The Iraqi PEOPLE. OCCUPATION, is the problem... You state it was a mistake, but we can't stop now? What are we doing there? OCCUPATION. So we continue a mistake, while continuing to erode any chance of a successful war on terror? The world sees this as an occupation, and it is building more resentment and increasing the odds of us getting attacked again. No one is wanting to back down on the "terrorists", but we are holding an entire nation hostage with an occupation. We cannot continue to tell ourselves that we are passing on "democracy" by the barrel of a gun, and not expect a measure of Blowback. We cannot be an example, BY this example...

05-19-2006, 11:39 AM	#11 (permalink)
bry623 Manager, The Conversation Pit/Analyst, Security Team Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: NW Territory circa 1787 Posts: 11,692 OS: winxp pro sp2	Your non-American spelling of Harbor, and the fact that you are in Sweeden, tend to nullify your protests about the American governement. There has to be less than 500 Swedish troops there. No offense intended, but that would be like me telling my wife, "I know it sucks when we get cramps, but I don't think we should be occupy blood ceels with Midol." I applaud the president's resolve to eradicate terrorism from the planet. Too bad I can't elect him to a third term.......... __________________ "If you aren't a liberal when you're 20, you have no heart. If you aren't a conservative when you are 50, you have no brain"

05-19-2006, 11:59 AM	#12 (permalink)
Successrealm Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Richmond, Virginia Posts: 19 OS: XP	Your non-American spelling of Harbor, and the fact that you are in Sweeden, tend to nullify your protests about the American governement. There has to be less than 500 Swedish troops there. No offense intended, but that would be like me telling my wife, "I know it sucks when we get cramps, but I don't think we should be occupy blood ceels with Midol." bry623 That's it? Your entire argument is based on a SPELLING incident? Grow up....WOW! Then, you go off on ANOTHER ridiuculous rant about me being Swedish? Where did I ever state that I was from Sweden? You ASSume quite a bit bry.... In fact, I am an AMERICAN, and served with the AMERICAN military for 8 years of my life (I'm 38 now...) Likewise, you didn't even get involved in the discussion I responded to... "I applaud the president's resolve to eradicate terrorism from the planet. Too bad I can't elect him to a third" I applaud ANY man's resolve to eradicate terrorism, but HIS method's are *** backwards. You would ACTUALLY continue to allow this idiot to screw this country for ANOTHER four years? Now I understand who I'm dealing with... Before you ASSume that I'm a "librul", I'm going to "pre empt" you and inform you that I'm a TRUE conservative, who puts COUNTRY, before party. America doesn't deserve the failures this admin has given us. Jesus.....29 percent.

05-19-2006, 12:47 PM	#15 (permalink)
yustr Asst. Manager, The Conversation Pit Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Connecticut shore Posts: 6,049 OS: XP Pro My System	Time to talk a breath guys.....it's getting to personal so please play nice... __________________ If there are lawyers or politicians involved, logic may be a very poor tool for reaching a conclusion.

05-19-2006, 08:32 PM	#20 (permalink)
bruiser TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,973 OS: xp	There is no ambiguity or weasel words in Bell South's statements. Unless other evidence arises, I'll believe Bell South. As for Verizon, the following link contains the full press release. You'll notice they do deny they gave the NSA access to customer records or call data. Now, there is something in that release that would make one wonder if maybe there is something other than what was reported going on. Or, is Verizon having some fun with the press? http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/16/news...izon_statement AT&T is being quiet. I haven't seen or heard anything from them.