Copy protection on games. Gone wrong.

Millsy · 05-30-2005, 07:31 PM

http://www.virtual-hideout.net/artic...on/index.shtml

Editorial I wrote ranting about how much I hate copy protection on games.

>_<

Lots of good responce from it so far. Just a topic that really urks me.

**ReeKorl** · 05-31-2005, 09:51 AM

Good rant, and one that I completely agree with.

The most ridiculous thing I've found is that the actual act of bypassing a copy protection system, for any reason, is illegal in this country. In other words, making a backup copy of a game CD that you own and cracking it so you don't need to use the original disk is actually illegal.

Copy protection does do something though. It doesn't prevent the pirates who go out and sell hundreds of copies and make money off the game, but it DOES stop some people, not especially computer savvy, who may have enjoyed the game but were unable to buy it, from getting to play it. If they liked it, they're more likely to go out and buy this, if not future games from the same developer, but as they can't play it, they won't.

The companies are actually reducing they're revenues and fanbase by doing this (not to mention having to pay out money for the licence of the copy protection software)

Look at Introversion, developers of Uplink and Darwinia. They're a team of three 'bedroom programmers' who publish they're own games. The only copy protection they've used is a CD check (with Uplink, and I'm not sure they used even that for Darwinia). They know that people are going to copy their games (the first time I played Uplink was on a friend's computer, with a copied version of the game) so they don't try to stop it. If I'd never played that illegal copy of Uplink, I never would have heard of Introversion, and subsequently never bought a copy of Uplink and later Darwinia.

-EDIT

Does anyone know if there's been an update to this yet?

Chevy · 05-31-2005, 10:55 AM

Quote:

The most ridiculous thing I've found is that the actual act of bypassing a copy protection system, for any reason, is illegal in this country. In other words, making a backup copy of a game CD that you own and cracking it so you don't need to use the original disk is actually illegal.

But, like Windows, aren't you purchasing a license to use the software, within the constraints set forth in the EULA? Constraints you agree to before installing the software? You don't own it, you license it.

**JeremyC** · 05-31-2005, 03:14 PM

who the hell owns anything these days? the only thing i seem to own is myself.

stupid credit card.

Volt-Schwibe · 05-31-2005, 04:03 PM

actually, in many situations, we don't even own ourselves.

elf · 05-31-2005, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaltSide

actually, in many situations, we don't even own ourselves.

so true...the majority of the time i pwn you

**JeremyC** · 05-31-2005, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elf

so true...the majority of the time i pwn you...
in bed

fixed

joking joking

i love you guys

**Sarkast** · 05-31-2005, 07:57 PM

I dont even own myself - my wife does.

**ReeKorl** · 06-01-2005, 03:17 AM

There is a problem with the whole "You only have a licence to play the game, not to copy the CD" school of thought.

You have bought the licence to use the game, therefore you own the right to play the game/use the software/whatever. You do not own the CD/media it comes on. The company can recall the CD at any time for any reason. However, the media is required to use the software, so by taking the media away, they have stopped you from using the software which you are still permitted to use. It's a catch 22 situation almost.

More to the point, this only exists on software/games. However, the law regarding bypassing of copy protection applies to all copyrighted digital media including video DVDs. The act of bypassing macrovision copy protection on DVDs in order to make a personal backup copy of a DVD is illegal, but where is there a EULA stating you don't own the disc? Nowhere, because you do actually own the disc in this case. Yet you are still not permitted to make a personal backup.

Why?

ICFire · 06-01-2005, 09:49 AM

Good rant, I like making backup copies of orignals and using them because then when I'm in a rush and just grab and throw whatever is currently in the drive onto my desktop I know if I screw the cd up I just need to reburn one from my safe and pristine original that I leave in the box.

yustr · 06-01-2005, 10:49 AM

In the famous Betamax case of 1984 the US Supreme Court found that making copies for personal use is not a copyright infringement.

I don't see how copying CD/DVD/Software is any different - as long as it's for my personal use.

But all this misses the point, which is: Would the movie companies been any more successful if Sony had been precluded from making VTR's? No. Just the opposite. They have benefited greatly. So would music/film/software companies - if they embrace the technology rather than fight it.

The Grateful Dead encouraged recording of their concerts. Those bootleg recordings widened their audience. Other bands did pat-down searches at the door – drugs were OK but don’t try to sneak in a tape recorder.

**uripyores** · 06-01-2005, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chevy

But, like Windows, aren't you purchasing a license to use the software, within the constraints set forth in the EULA? Constraints you agree to before installing the software? You don't own it, you license it.

You try getting a direct answer from M$ legal as to whether you can make a backup copy of your legit windows...they don't know...so how is anyone else supposed to

?

Volt-Schwibe · 06-01-2005, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yustr

In the famous Betamax case of 1984 the US Supreme Court found that making copies for personal use is not a copyright infringement.

I don't see how copying CD/DVD/Software is any different - as long as it's for my personal use.

All of that was before the Digital Millenium Act of 1998, which clearly states, anything digital that is covered under a copyright can not be reproduced legally even for own home backups.

with the Digital Millenium Act in place, we can't even legally run the cd's we own from copies, or images, even if it's only to protect the cd's longevity.

must mean that congress is in the business of ensuring the music industry's rear these days, making sure that we continue to but the same media, simply because it's digital, and we can't copy it, and it only exists on a mere 4 thousands of an inch of metal foil. (kinda like when they saved the dairy association by adding dairy to the food pyramid.)

more info about this evil act of law can be found at: http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/dmca.pdf

~~whodat~~ · 06-10-2005, 04:26 AM

i own my big hound

**uripyores** · 06-10-2005, 07:13 AM

Quote:

excerpt from the Digital Millenium Act:
This distinction was employed to assure that the public will have the continued
ability to make fair use of copyrighted works. Since copying of a work may be a fair use
under appropriate circumstances, section 1201 does not prohibit the act of circumventing
a technological measure that prevents copying.

As I consider a back-up copy as

Quote:

fair use

I personally take this to mean you can make a copy for your own use of your paid for stuff.

ps. I [and lots of us other foreigners] do not feel constrained by these US made laws. If I was running an international business maybe I would. But I'm not, and I don't.

pps. see ya in court

05-30-2005, 07:31 PM	#1 (permalink)
Millsy Tech, Microsoft Computing Forums Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Alberta Canada Posts: 92 OS: Win2k3	Copy protection on games. Gone wrong. http://www.virtual-hideout.net/artic...on/index.shtml Editorial I wrote ranting about how much I hate copy protection on games. >_< Lots of good responce from it so far. Just a topic that really urks me. __________________ http://www.tjscustomcomputers.com/images/msteam3.JPG My work truck can kick your work truck's butt

05-31-2005, 09:51 AM	#2 (permalink)
ReeKorl Superhuman Computer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: 6th Circle, The City of Dis, Hell Posts: 1,610 OS: WinXP Pro SP2 My System	Good rant, and one that I completely agree with. The most ridiculous thing I've found is that the actual act of bypassing a copy protection system, for any reason, is illegal in this country. In other words, making a backup copy of a game CD that you own and cracking it so you don't need to use the original disk is actually illegal. Copy protection does do something though. It doesn't prevent the pirates who go out and sell hundreds of copies and make money off the game, but it DOES stop some people, not especially computer savvy, who may have enjoyed the game but were unable to buy it, from getting to play it. If they liked it, they're more likely to go out and buy this, if not future games from the same developer, but as they can't play it, they won't. The companies are actually reducing they're revenues and fanbase by doing this (not to mention having to pay out money for the licence of the copy protection software) Look at Introversion, developers of Uplink and Darwinia. They're a team of three 'bedroom programmers' who publish they're own games. The only copy protection they've used is a CD check (with Uplink, and I'm not sure they used even that for Darwinia). They know that people are going to copy their games (the first time I played Uplink was on a friend's computer, with a copied version of the game) so they don't try to stop it. If I'd never played that illegal copy of Uplink, I never would have heard of Introversion, and subsequently never bought a copy of Uplink and later Darwinia. -EDIT Does anyone know if there's been an update to this yet? __________________ "Sorry, the number you have dialled is imaginary. Please rotate dial by 90 degrees and try again." Last edited by ReeKorl; 05-31-2005 at 09:56 AM.

05-31-2005, 03:14 PM	#4 (permalink)
JeremyC Resident Alchemist Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,148 OS: SuSE 10.0/XP Pro	who the hell owns anything these days? the only thing i seem to own is myself. stupid credit card. __________________

05-31-2005, 04:03 PM	#5 (permalink)
Volt-Schwibe Asst. Manager, Automotive Forums; HJT Trainee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Behind you, watching you as you type. Posts: 7,372 OS: Click "My System" to view details My System	actually, in many situations, we don't even own ourselves. __________________ <signature> TSF is funded by our Admin's pocket, care to help? Power Tip: Subscribe to your thread (Thread Tools) to receive an instant email notification when you get a reply. New Members: Creating a single new thread in the correct section is the best way to assure your thread will receive a reply. </signature>

05-31-2005, 07:57 PM	#8 (permalink)
Sarkast TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: NY Posts: 2,715 OS: WinXP	I dont even own myself - my wife does. __________________ P4 2.4@2.9 / XP-90 / Albatron PX865PE Pro V2.0 / Kingston Hyper-X 512MB Dual Channel CL2-2-2-5 / Geforce4 MX440x8 64MB / WD80GB 7200RPM 8MB / Thermaltake 420W PSU --> SEE IT ALL GLOW <-- MBM5 - SpeedFan - PSU Calculator - MemTest86 - ThrottleWatch

06-01-2005, 03:17 AM	#9 (permalink)
ReeKorl Superhuman Computer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: 6th Circle, The City of Dis, Hell Posts: 1,610 OS: WinXP Pro SP2 My System	There is a problem with the whole "You only have a licence to play the game, not to copy the CD" school of thought. You have bought the licence to use the game, therefore you own the right to play the game/use the software/whatever. You do not own the CD/media it comes on. The company can recall the CD at any time for any reason. However, the media is required to use the software, so by taking the media away, they have stopped you from using the software which you are still permitted to use. It's a catch 22 situation almost. More to the point, this only exists on software/games. However, the law regarding bypassing of copy protection applies to all copyrighted digital media including video DVDs. The act of bypassing macrovision copy protection on DVDs in order to make a personal backup copy of a DVD is illegal, but where is there a EULA stating you don't own the disc? Nowhere, because you do actually own the disc in this case. Yet you are still not permitted to make a personal backup. Why? __________________ "Sorry, the number you have dialled is imaginary. Please rotate dial by 90 degrees and try again."

06-01-2005, 09:49 AM	#10 (permalink)
ICFire Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bloomington, Indiana Posts: 268 OS: XP Pro	Good rant, I like making backup copies of orignals and using them because then when I'm in a rush and just grab and throw whatever is currently in the drive onto my desktop I know if I screw the cd up I just need to reburn one from my safe and pristine original that I leave in the box.

06-01-2005, 10:49 AM	#11 (permalink)
yustr Asst. Manager, The Conversation Pit Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Connecticut shore Posts: 6,050 OS: XP Pro My System	In the famous Betamax case of 1984 the US Supreme Court found that making copies for personal use is not a copyright infringement. I don't see how copying CD/DVD/Software is any different - as long as it's for my personal use. But all this misses the point, which is: Would the movie companies been any more successful if Sony had been precluded from making VTR's? No. Just the opposite. They have benefited greatly. So would music/film/software companies - if they embrace the technology rather than fight it. The Grateful Dead encouraged recording of their concerts. Those bootleg recordings widened their audience. Other bands did pat-down searches at the door – drugs were OK but don’t try to sneak in a tape recorder. __________________ If there are lawyers or politicians involved, logic may be a very poor tool for reaching a conclusion.

06-10-2005, 04:26 AM	#14 (permalink)
~~whodat~~ Register user Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 5,931 OS: XP	i own my big hound