Big Brother in your toaster

**merlin** · 11-07-2002, 07:18 AM

What if your refrigerator knew too much?

More specifically, what if the company that made your refrigerator knew too much, automatically sucking in data about food purchases you make?

And what if that company, in a move originally designed to foster commerce, passed along that information to a business partner—say, an online grocery supplier—which concluded by the amount of beer you were chilling that you have a drinking problem?

Such data-mining techniques are beginning to generate privacy concerns, as technology that collects and analyzes information not only proliferates but becomes capable of revealing a larger picture.

The potential for such a privacy problem is causing some companies to reassess their businesses. For instance, buyers of new homes in the planned community of Playa Vista in South- ern California were supposed to get Whirlpool refrigerators that would allow them to surf the Web. No longer. Whirlpool now has postponed plans—announced in 1999—to release a set of appliances that can be controlled over the Internet.

True, part of the reason is that the broadband connection the appliances require is still not widely available, says Whirlpool spokesman Tom Kline. Plus, Whirlpool is concerned about the energy required to fire up their new models, as consumption is a big issue in California. But also driving the decision to postpone is a concern for privacy: What if an outsider breaks into your network and downloads your meal plans? What if he or she turns on your oven?

"It's fine to be able to turn on your oven from the office, but you don't want somebody else doing it," Kline says.

Whirlpool, along with IBM, instead will pursue pilot tests that will attempt to resolve security and privacy issues. These same data-mining techniques that would allow the FBI and the CIA to track terrorists also enable someone to surmise that you, the owner of the Whirlpool refrigerator with the large supply of beer, are an alcoholic.

ok. from now on I keep my booze in a super cooled hamber in my basement.... no more fridges..you never know. :suspic:

**Tweetybird** · 11-07-2002, 07:22 AM

That is with out a doubt stupid. LOL
Who comes up with this stuff.

**Doonz** · 11-07-2002, 08:25 AM

Shann...Not as stupid as you think....

One of the USES of the putting internet capable applinces....

you scan you Milk when you buy it...at the refigartor...now it can tell you when its going bad -Atleast...I am sure there is a way to tell or soon will be...how much milk your using... why connect it to the interent...well how about specials feed right to you based on your purchases or recipies for the food you recently bought...why a computer in a refigrator...to keep stock...leave elctronic emails for the family...it is not if but when!!

The movie Minortiy Report like it or hate it had alot of thoes technolgies in place ...bluetooth, .net, spray on monitors...and more...no we cant project crimes yet

**Tweetybird** · 11-07-2002, 08:51 AM

Hey I like the way I live now, I think it is getting alittle out there, come on do you reallly need to have access to you fidge via internet. Cme on think about it.:no: :no:

**Pseudocyber** · 11-07-2002, 09:03 AM

Do you need to have access to your fridge via the internet ... maybe. There are some good ideas about allowing your fridge (and other things) to access the internet ...

Your fridge could run automated diagnostics and detect a problem before it happens and send you, and the manufacturer/warranty service, an email that it was about to fail - this could save you a lot of money in spoiled food.

As someone said, what if it scanned your food as it goes in - it could tell you when something was about to expire and it could generate a grocery list for you - or it could even arrange to have your food ready for pickup at the store - or even delivered to you!

You could have a diet program in the fridge and it could know what you pull out - informing your about fat content, protein, carbs, calories, whatever!

The house system could monitor the temperature and the two of them together could work to heat/cool your house more efficiently - for instance, a refrigerator generates heat - on the outside - back. This helps to heat your house. If the fridge knew it was about to "come on" it could send this info to the house AC system - the house AC system wouldn't have to detect it with the thermostat - what if the thermostat is near the Fridge? Maybe house AC systems could do zone heating/cooling - drawing a little heat from the kitchen when you're cooking and pump it down to the cold basement ...

THINK ABOUT THIS:

When IP (Internet Protocol - the "language" your computer talks to use the internet) version 6 becomes "de reguiler (sp?)" that means there will be about 10 Decillion UNIQUE NUMBERS available - enough numbers to give EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE a UNIQUE INTERNET ADDRESS. Think about the implications here ...

How many is a Decillion? This many:
1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

**Pseudocyber** · 11-07-2002, 09:08 AM

Ps. If you're worried about "Big Brother" Grocery stores knowing what you're eating and drinking ...

DO NOT use the VIC/Valued Customer/Preferred Customer cards when shopping that "save you money".

This is simply a bar code identifying you in their data base and cataloging your spending habits so they can use this info in their marketing and also sell it to their vendors. May as well not use your debit card or your credit card either - same thing.

**Der Rabe** · 11-07-2002, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pseudocyber
Ps. If you're worried about "Big Brother" Grocery stores knowing what you're eating and drinking ...

DO NOT use the VIC/Valued Customer/Preferred Customer cards when shopping that "save you money".

This is simply a bar code identifying you in their data base and cataloging your spending habits so they can use this info in their marketing and also sell it to their vendors. May as well not use your debit card or your credit card either - same thing.

Apparently I am screwed. I can just see it now, AA is gonna show up at more door and accuse me of being an alcholic even though I drink a beer or other acholic beverages about once aweek at most. But when I grocery shop I like to buy different type of adult beverages just to try them.

**Tweetybird** · 11-07-2002, 09:46 AM

well ok lets look at it in a Hollywood way, didnt any of you see Maxuim Overdrive , what if that happend.

**Pseudocyber** · 11-07-2002, 10:03 AM

Well, Tweety - the networking of one's home and everything is happening.

I don't think any asteroids crashing into the world and possessing all the semi-trucks with killer "demon" possession is about to happen ...

I think the Dean Koontz movies are more likely than the Stephen King ones. ;)

**Tweetybird** · 11-07-2002, 10:13 AM

Hey that is a point , I just read a book by him , where this ladies house was completely computerized and then it turns in to terror for the lady , her house is sealed up and the computer thinks its a guy and in love. The computer takes over the whole house, no thanks I will continue with the way I do things now, I like having the over all control. What happens when the computers and machine dont need us any more .Then what we become the enemy, they end up taking over, humans will be a dying bred. Look Planet of The Apes is a prime example we become Apes plaything.LOL:D :D

:argue: :poke1:

**Pseudocyber** · 11-07-2002, 10:35 AM

Well, first of all - the scenario you're describing is the Terminator - not Planet of the Apes! ;)

And I'm sure people felt the same as you when electricity was being put in people's houses at the beginning of the 20th Century.

How often do you think about the electricity and the radio waves that you are surrounded by? Do you actively think about your hot water heating your water? Or your AC cooling your air? Or you dishwasher washing your dishes? Or your washer and dryer cleaning your clothes?

Computers will be all around you and talking to each other - in a very short time - and you won't be able to function in "modern society" without them - and you won't even think about it. You won't recognize them. All modern appliances already have decision making circuitry built into them. Go to sears and look at the top of the line appliances. Technology "trickles down".

How much did a CD Walkman player cost when they came out? About $500. Now you can buy them at Wallmart for <$20.

I saw an interesting chart somewhere the other day - I think it's in one of the latest Wired Magazines. It's about the decline of analog devices and the rise of digital - such as tape players vs. CD, Film Camera vs. Digital Cameras, Analog clocks vs. Digital Clocks.

Soon, there won't be any consumer appliances that aren't digital.

**Tweetybird** · 11-07-2002, 11:47 AM

Actually I do think about those things every time I get that electric bill, no no , why would you want to stop doing those everyday things that make us who we are, we already complain about every appliance and machine made now , what happens when it gets like you say and those malfunction and food for thought why would anyone be secure in it anyway, planes still crash and most of the time its not human error, I mean I could go on on with different scenrios, why give control over , how long before the government and thosse techs have accesss with in our homes, with out us knowing about it. I see the freedom that we are so proud of becoming something more that it need to be.
And actually I wasnt thinking about Term 2 , It was a for instance anyway. AS in you give the animals the power and we will be thier pets and same thing with tech.:D

We are becoming slaves to tech.

**Pseudocyber** · 11-07-2002, 12:01 PM

Are you a Luddite?

**merlin** · 11-07-2002, 12:15 PM

imagine getting a call from your ISP :

"sir, we will need you to change the IP address of your fridge, its conflicting with the IP address of your toilet...or what you can do is install windoze ICS on your frige and route your toilet through..."... hehehe

:brush: j/k of course.

**Pseudocyber** · 11-07-2002, 12:31 PM

No! Wait! I have it ... M$ Toilet 2.1 ... It's Crappy!!! :D

**merlin** · 11-07-2002, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pseudocyber
No! Wait! I have it ... M$ Toilet 2.1 ... It's Crappy!!! :D

LOL, good one :D

but...that means I have to upgrade..I still have M$ Toilet 1.0...no wonder it doesnt flush anymore...Pseudo I need that upgrade really baaad !!!! I think Im gonna reload the whole T.P. OS while Im at it....If my HD crashes Im $h1T outta luck !!!!

tsk tsk tsk...what is this world coming to....

twas · 11-07-2002, 12:52 PM

This is "Big Brother" speaking, please do not be alarmed.

All of the changes that are being made are in your best interest. We would never do anything to intrude on your privacy or in any other way violated your rights (as we see them).

We here at "BB" want to make things easier and protect you (mostly from your self).

So relax, look into PC moniter or your ice maker and repeat after me:

I love my Big Brother.
I love Bill Gates.
I love politicians.

There now don't you feel better (I certainly do).

:ufo: :ufo: :ufo:

Your loving "Big Brother"

ps - Don't forget to vote for me in the next presidential election.

pss - Oh, forget about voting, we'll take of that for you.

**Pseudocyber** · 11-07-2002, 01:10 PM

Quote:

I still have M$ Toilet 1.0...no wonder it doesnt flush anymore...Pseudo I need that upgrade really baaad !!!! I think Im gonna reload the whole T.P. OS while Im at it....If my HD crashes Im $h1T outta luck !!!!

tsk tsk tsk...what is this world coming to....

:D Gives a new meaning to the phrase, "Core Dump" LMAO!

**merlin** · 11-07-2002, 01:18 PM

Big Brother, Im typing this in hope that you can help me...
I followed your instructions and I was staring into my icemaker...BUT MY TONGUE GOT STUCK TO THE ICEBOX!!!! dang it....plese help soon...because...breain freeze...getting blue..in the face..it huuuurts.....need to pee...ouch....nevermind...toilet still rebooting...aaaaAAAAHHH!!!

**Pseudocyber** · 11-07-2002, 01:48 PM

toilet rebooting better than toilet having a buffer overrun!

:toilet:

11-07-2002, 07:18 AM	#1 (permalink)
merlin I helped the forums. Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,612 OS: 3.11	Big Brother in your toaster What if your refrigerator knew too much? More specifically, what if the company that made your refrigerator knew too much, automatically sucking in data about food purchases you make? And what if that company, in a move originally designed to foster commerce, passed along that information to a business partner—say, an online grocery supplier—which concluded by the amount of beer you were chilling that you have a drinking problem? Such data-mining techniques are beginning to generate privacy concerns, as technology that collects and analyzes information not only proliferates but becomes capable of revealing a larger picture. The potential for such a privacy problem is causing some companies to reassess their businesses. For instance, buyers of new homes in the planned community of Playa Vista in South- ern California were supposed to get Whirlpool refrigerators that would allow them to surf the Web. No longer. Whirlpool now has postponed plans—announced in 1999—to release a set of appliances that can be controlled over the Internet. True, part of the reason is that the broadband connection the appliances require is still not widely available, says Whirlpool spokesman Tom Kline. Plus, Whirlpool is concerned about the energy required to fire up their new models, as consumption is a big issue in California. But also driving the decision to postpone is a concern for privacy: What if an outsider breaks into your network and downloads your meal plans? What if he or she turns on your oven? "It's fine to be able to turn on your oven from the office, but you don't want somebody else doing it," Kline says. Whirlpool, along with IBM, instead will pursue pilot tests that will attempt to resolve security and privacy issues. These same data-mining techniques that would allow the FBI and the CIA to track terrorists also enable someone to surmise that you, the owner of the Whirlpool refrigerator with the large supply of beer, are an alcoholic. ok. from now on I keep my booze in a super cooled hamber in my basement.... no more fridges..you never know. :suspic:

11-07-2002, 07:22 AM	#2 (permalink)
Tweetybird Dragonfly Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: texas Posts: 647 OS: win98	That is with out a doubt stupid. LOL Who comes up with this stuff. __________________ Life is to short to stay mad , so perk up and give a big smile Tweet, tweet , tweetin. Satan aka mad hatter

11-07-2002, 08:25 AM	#3 (permalink)
Doonz S.W.A.T Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Long Island Posts: 1,481 OS: WinXP, Vista, MAC 10.x	Shann...Not as stupid as you think.... One of the USES of the putting internet capable applinces.... you scan you Milk when you buy it...at the refigartor...now it can tell you when its going bad -Atleast...I am sure there is a way to tell or soon will be...how much milk your using... why connect it to the interent...well how about specials feed right to you based on your purchases or recipies for the food you recently bought...why a computer in a refigrator...to keep stock...leave elctronic emails for the family...it is not if but when!! The movie Minortiy Report like it or hate it had alot of thoes technolgies in place ...bluetooth, .net, spray on monitors...and more...no we cant project crimes yet __________________ Simple Wise-A%$ Techie Last edited by Doonz; 11-07-2002 at 08:27 AM.

11-07-2002, 08:51 AM	#4 (permalink)
Tweetybird Dragonfly Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: texas Posts: 647 OS: win98	Hey I like the way I live now, I think it is getting alittle out there, come on do you reallly need to have access to you fidge via internet. Cme on think about it.:no: :no: __________________ Life is to short to stay mad , so perk up and give a big smile Tweet, tweet , tweetin. Satan aka mad hatter

11-07-2002, 09:03 AM	#5 (permalink)
Pseudocyber NetEngr/Geek Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Earth\US\NC\Charlotte Posts: 1,394 OS: Win2K	Do you need to have access to your fridge via the internet ... maybe. There are some good ideas about allowing your fridge (and other things) to access the internet ... Your fridge could run automated diagnostics and detect a problem before it happens and send you, and the manufacturer/warranty service, an email that it was about to fail - this could save you a lot of money in spoiled food. As someone said, what if it scanned your food as it goes in - it could tell you when something was about to expire and it could generate a grocery list for you - or it could even arrange to have your food ready for pickup at the store - or even delivered to you! You could have a diet program in the fridge and it could know what you pull out - informing your about fat content, protein, carbs, calories, whatever! The house system could monitor the temperature and the two of them together could work to heat/cool your house more efficiently - for instance, a refrigerator generates heat - on the outside - back. This helps to heat your house. If the fridge knew it was about to "come on" it could send this info to the house AC system - the house AC system wouldn't have to detect it with the thermostat - what if the thermostat is near the Fridge? Maybe house AC systems could do zone heating/cooling - drawing a little heat from the kitchen when you're cooking and pump it down to the cold basement ... THINK ABOUT THIS: When IP (Internet Protocol - the "language" your computer talks to use the internet) version 6 becomes "de reguiler (sp?)" that means there will be about 10 Decillion UNIQUE NUMBERS available - enough numbers to give EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE a UNIQUE INTERNET ADDRESS. Think about the implications here ... How many is a Decillion? This many: 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 __________________ AM = :coffee: PM = :cheers: CCNA, NNCSSx2, MCSE (NT), A+, CNA

11-07-2002, 09:08 AM	#6 (permalink)
Pseudocyber NetEngr/Geek Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Earth\US\NC\Charlotte Posts: 1,394 OS: Win2K	Ps. If you're worried about "Big Brother" Grocery stores knowing what you're eating and drinking ... DO NOT use the VIC/Valued Customer/Preferred Customer cards when shopping that "save you money". This is simply a bar code identifying you in their data base and cataloging your spending habits so they can use this info in their marketing and also sell it to their vendors. May as well not use your debit card or your credit card either - same thing. __________________ AM = :coffee: PM = :cheers: CCNA, NNCSSx2, MCSE (NT), A+, CNA

11-07-2002, 09:46 AM	#8 (permalink)
Tweetybird Dragonfly Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: texas Posts: 647 OS: win98	well ok lets look at it in a Hollywood way, didnt any of you see Maxuim Overdrive , what if that happend. __________________ Life is to short to stay mad , so perk up and give a big smile Tweet, tweet , tweetin. Satan aka mad hatter

11-07-2002, 10:03 AM	#9 (permalink)
Pseudocyber NetEngr/Geek Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Earth\US\NC\Charlotte Posts: 1,394 OS: Win2K	Well, Tweety - the networking of one's home and everything is happening. I don't think any asteroids crashing into the world and possessing all the semi-trucks with killer "demon" possession is about to happen ... I think the Dean Koontz movies are more likely than the Stephen King ones. ;) __________________ AM = :coffee: PM = :cheers: CCNA, NNCSSx2, MCSE (NT), A+, CNA

11-07-2002, 10:13 AM	#10 (permalink)
Tweetybird Dragonfly Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: texas Posts: 647 OS: win98	Hey that is a point , I just read a book by him , where this ladies house was completely computerized and then it turns in to terror for the lady , her house is sealed up and the computer thinks its a guy and in love. The computer takes over the whole house, no thanks I will continue with the way I do things now, I like having the over all control. What happens when the computers and machine dont need us any more .Then what we become the enemy, they end up taking over, humans will be a dying bred. Look Planet of The Apes is a prime example we become Apes plaything.LOL:D :D :argue: :poke1: __________________ Life is to short to stay mad , so perk up and give a big smile Tweet, tweet , tweetin. Satan aka mad hatter

11-07-2002, 10:35 AM	#11 (permalink)
Pseudocyber NetEngr/Geek Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Earth\US\NC\Charlotte Posts: 1,394 OS: Win2K	Well, first of all - the scenario you're describing is the Terminator - not Planet of the Apes! ;) And I'm sure people felt the same as you when electricity was being put in people's houses at the beginning of the 20th Century. How often do you think about the electricity and the radio waves that you are surrounded by? Do you actively think about your hot water heating your water? Or your AC cooling your air? Or you dishwasher washing your dishes? Or your washer and dryer cleaning your clothes? Computers will be all around you and talking to each other - in a very short time - and you won't be able to function in "modern society" without them - and you won't even think about it. You won't recognize them. All modern appliances already have decision making circuitry built into them. Go to sears and look at the top of the line appliances. Technology "trickles down". How much did a CD Walkman player cost when they came out? About $500. Now you can buy them at Wallmart for <$20. I saw an interesting chart somewhere the other day - I think it's in one of the latest Wired Magazines. It's about the decline of analog devices and the rise of digital - such as tape players vs. CD, Film Camera vs. Digital Cameras, Analog clocks vs. Digital Clocks. Soon, there won't be any consumer appliances that aren't digital. __________________ AM = :coffee: PM = :cheers: CCNA, NNCSSx2, MCSE (NT), A+, CNA

11-07-2002, 11:47 AM	#12 (permalink)
Tweetybird Dragonfly Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: texas Posts: 647 OS: win98	Actually I do think about those things every time I get that electric bill, no no , why would you want to stop doing those everyday things that make us who we are, we already complain about every appliance and machine made now , what happens when it gets like you say and those malfunction and food for thought why would anyone be secure in it anyway, planes still crash and most of the time its not human error, I mean I could go on on with different scenrios, why give control over , how long before the government and thosse techs have accesss with in our homes, with out us knowing about it. I see the freedom that we are so proud of becoming something more that it need to be. And actually I wasnt thinking about Term 2 , It was a for instance anyway. AS in you give the animals the power and we will be thier pets and same thing with tech.:D We are becoming slaves to tech. __________________ Life is to short to stay mad , so perk up and give a big smile Tweet, tweet , tweetin. Satan aka mad hatter

11-07-2002, 12:01 PM	#13 (permalink)
Pseudocyber NetEngr/Geek Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Earth\US\NC\Charlotte Posts: 1,394 OS: Win2K	Are you a Luddite? __________________ AM = :coffee: PM = :cheers: CCNA, NNCSSx2, MCSE (NT), A+, CNA

11-07-2002, 12:15 PM	#14 (permalink)
merlin I helped the forums. Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,612 OS: 3.11	imagine getting a call from your ISP : "sir, we will need you to change the IP address of your fridge, its conflicting with the IP address of your toilet...or what you can do is install windoze ICS on your frige and route your toilet through..."... hehehe :brush: j/k of course.

11-07-2002, 12:31 PM	#15 (permalink)
Pseudocyber NetEngr/Geek Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Earth\US\NC\Charlotte Posts: 1,394 OS: Win2K	No! Wait! I have it ... M$ Toilet 2.1 ... It's Crappy!!! :D __________________ AM = :coffee: PM = :cheers: CCNA, NNCSSx2, MCSE (NT), A+, CNA

11-07-2002, 12:52 PM	#17 (permalink)
twas Servant Of The General Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Plant Celexia (By way Of Mcloud, OK) Posts: 286 OS: #1) Win98 SE #2) Win 2000	This is "Big Brother" speaking, please do not be alarmed. All of the changes that are being made are in your best interest. We would never do anything to intrude on your privacy or in any other way violated your rights (as we see them). We here at "BB" want to make things easier and protect you (mostly from your self). So relax, look into PC moniter or your ice maker and repeat after me: I love my Big Brother. I love Bill Gates. I love politicians. There now don't you feel better (I certainly do). :ufo: :ufo: :ufo: Your loving "Big Brother" ps - Don't forget to vote for me in the next presidential election. pss - Oh, forget about voting, we'll take of that for you. __________________ I am who I am, unless I'm some one else. --- If you think you understand the things I say, you need to seek HELP IMMEDADTELY.

11-07-2002, 01:18 PM	#19 (permalink)
merlin I helped the forums. Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,612 OS: 3.11	Big Brother, Im typing this in hope that you can help me... I followed your instructions and I was staring into my icemaker...BUT MY TONGUE GOT STUCK TO THE ICEBOX!!!! dang it....plese help soon...because...breain freeze...getting blue..in the face..it huuuurts.....need to pee...ouch....nevermind...toilet still rebooting...aaaaAAAAHHH!!! Last edited by merlin; 11-07-2002 at 01:22 PM.

11-07-2002, 01:48 PM	#20 (permalink)
Pseudocyber NetEngr/Geek Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Earth\US\NC\Charlotte Posts: 1,394 OS: Win2K	toilet rebooting better than toilet having a buffer overrun! :toilet: __________________ AM = :coffee: PM = :cheers: CCNA, NNCSSx2, MCSE (NT), A+, CNA