Math question.

**Sarge** · 01-13-2005, 06:17 PM

I have a friend who's a Astonomy major.
She keeps insisting to me that (

by / 0 =

).
But isn't ANY number divided by Zero =

or did I miss something?

elf · 01-13-2005, 06:20 PM

Actually the correct answer would be "undefined" it is impossible to divide by 0

ANY number divided by 0 = undefined

**Sarge** · 01-13-2005, 06:26 PM

What's the difference between "undefined" and "Empty Set"?
Oh, and is there a mathematical symbol for "Undefined"?

I was fairly sure that Infinity divided by Zero couldn't still be Zero....

elf · 01-13-2005, 06:40 PM

Well as I know there is no defined symbol for empty set.

However, after a little research she COULD be right if you stretched the meaning a little.

The cardinality of an empty set (e.g. infinity divided by 0) is 0

Quote:

The cardinality of a set is a property that describes the size of the set by describing it using a cardinal number. Sometimes we refer to this notion in a numerical way, so in the case of finite sets, the cardinality of the set is just the number of elements contained in the set.

So if there are no items in the set, then the cardinality would be "0"
in short an empty set can = 0, but only if you REALLY want it to.

**Sarge** · 01-13-2005, 07:35 PM

Ok, now you're just thinking to hard.

More drinking, less thinking.

Chevy · 01-14-2005, 08:39 AM

Elf,

I don't know about that. 0 is a valid value in and of itself. Dividing by 0, however, returns nothing - it has no value, therefore no cardinality.

elf · 01-14-2005, 08:47 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empty_set

Read up on it. Anything divided by 0 = undefined which creates an empty set. An empty set has 0 cardinal values therefore its cardinatlity = 0.

Cardinality is the number of values in the set. If there are 3 values in the set, then the cardinality is 3. Since it is undefined and there are no values in the set the cardinality is 0.

Chevy · 01-14-2005, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empty_set

Read up on it. Anything divided by 0 = undefined which creates an empty set. An empty set has 0 cardinal values therefore its cardinatlity = 0.

Cardinality is the number of values in the set. If there are 3 values in the set, then the cardinality is 3. Since it is undefined and there are no values in the set the cardinality is 0.

But my argument sounded so good! ...

And again I leave this site a bit wiser ....

elf · 01-14-2005, 09:27 AM

Yea it did. If I hadn't been getting all my info off that wikipedia site I probably wouldn't have argued it.

v-six · 11-11-2005, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarge

I have a friend who's a Astonomy major.
She keeps insisting to me that (

by / 0 =

).
But isn't ANY number divided by Zero =

or did I miss something?

Preface: this little rant is not including the factor of empty sets into the formula. It's more from a philosophical view.
Your friend is partially right. It can be argued that any number divided by zero is zero, but that is not the only answer. Their arguement comes from the fact that simple divisions can be explained as how many times one number can be divided into another. In simple logic, zero is the number zero, as opposed to the concept of nothing. Zero fits into anything an infinite amount of times. You can put zero pennies into a jar an infinite amount of times...
Now we run into the problem that zero, when understood as nothing, is an abstract idea (as well as infinity). How many times can the idea of nothing be put in to anything? That's not for any human mind to determine. That's where the formula becomes undefined. So, in conclusion, if your friend is trying to say that infinity is the absolute answer to infinity divided by zero, they are wrong. Everyone that stated undefined as their answer is correct.
P.S. sorry for all the mathmaticians here, this isn't a straight-forward textbook explanation... just a dumb rant.

11-11-2005, 09:47 AM

I believe everyone has the right to have an answer to this question. Technically you can not divide a number into 0 and the answer would be undefined. But if we are talking about infinity a question arises. Do you believe in infinity ? I personally believe in the possibility of infinity as i believe in god. But i dont believe in infinity so the answer would be undefined to me. But if you do believe in infinity then it would include the " secret of 0 " So the answer would be the infinity.

elf · 11-12-2005, 07:46 AM

but no matter how many times you divide a number, it will NEVER reach 0...that is why anything divided by 0 = undefined.

No matter how much you divide a number, any number, you will never get to 0...

e.g. 2/2 = 1; 1/2 = .05; .05/2 = .25; .25/2 = .125; .125/2 = .0625; .0625/2 = .03125; etc... this is as far as I got before I got bored of hitting "divided by 2 enter" - 1.136868377216160297393798828125e-13
as you can see it will go on to infinity, but you will never get 0!

~~whodat~~ · 11-12-2005, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Do you believe in infinity ?

"infinity and beyond !"

11-12-2005, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Technically you can not divide a number into 0 and the answer would be undefined.

saying that i realized how nonsense it was indeed. Since you cant do something how come you can come with a result ? Maths still needs dimentions. Maybe when we understand maths we can understand women better :P ( any relation ? )

**kodi** · 11-12-2005, 11:35 AM

Whosdat, Have you been watching the kids videos again?

ebackhus · 11-12-2005, 02:25 PM

Infinity isn't a number... It just means "continuing indefinetly."

~~whodat~~ · 11-12-2005, 05:09 PM

jimmy neutron

Emporer_D · 11-13-2005, 09:34 PM

Holy cow. I don't like math NOW. I hope I never get into this.

**JeremyC** · 11-14-2005, 12:21 AM

i still cant distrubute properly

**mgoldb2** · 11-14-2005, 12:29 AM

Like Elf was hinted at what he proberly means is not divided by 0 but the limit as it approaches 0.

The very first thing you will learn in any calculus corse is about limits since it is the bases of calculus.

for example 3/x limit X->0 would equal infinity. on the other hand 3/x as limitX->infity equal 0.

01-13-2005, 06:17 PM	#1 (permalink)
Sarge TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Earth Posts: 653 OS: Windows XP Pro x64	Math question. I have a friend who's a Astonomy major. She keeps insisting to me that ( by / 0 = ). But isn't ANY number divided by Zero = or did I miss something? Last edited by Sarge; 01-13-2005 at 06:20 PM.

01-13-2005, 06:20 PM	#2 (permalink)
elf Manager, Microsoft Support Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Knoxville, TN or Austin, TX depending Posts: 7,038 OS: WinXP Pro SP3 and Windows 7 My System	Actually the correct answer would be "undefined" it is impossible to divide by 0 ANY number divided by 0 = undefined __________________ If TSF has helped you, Tell us about it! or Donate to help keep the site up! I do not subscribe to threads, so if I stop replying, PM me with a link to your thread so I can find it again. Last edited by elf; 01-13-2005 at 06:21 PM.

01-14-2005, 08:47 AM	#7 (permalink)
elf Manager, Microsoft Support Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Knoxville, TN or Austin, TX depending Posts: 7,038 OS: WinXP Pro SP3 and Windows 7 My System	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empty_set Read up on it. Anything divided by 0 = undefined which creates an empty set. An empty set has 0 cardinal values therefore its cardinatlity = 0. Cardinality is the number of values in the set. If there are 3 values in the set, then the cardinality is 3. Since it is undefined and there are no values in the set the cardinality is 0. __________________ If TSF has helped you, Tell us about it! or Donate to help keep the site up! I do not subscribe to threads, so if I stop replying, PM me with a link to your thread so I can find it again.

01-14-2005, 09:27 AM	#9 (permalink)
elf Manager, Microsoft Support Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Knoxville, TN or Austin, TX depending Posts: 7,038 OS: WinXP Pro SP3 and Windows 7 My System	Yea it did. If I hadn't been getting all my info off that wikipedia site I probably wouldn't have argued it. __________________ If TSF has helped you, Tell us about it! or Donate to help keep the site up! I do not subscribe to threads, so if I stop replying, PM me with a link to your thread so I can find it again.

11-12-2005, 07:46 AM	#12 (permalink)
elf Manager, Microsoft Support Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Knoxville, TN or Austin, TX depending Posts: 7,038 OS: WinXP Pro SP3 and Windows 7 My System	but no matter how many times you divide a number, it will NEVER reach 0...that is why anything divided by 0 = undefined. No matter how much you divide a number, any number, you will never get to 0... e.g. 2/2 = 1; 1/2 = .05; .05/2 = .25; .25/2 = .125; .125/2 = .0625; .0625/2 = .03125; etc... this is as far as I got before I got bored of hitting "divided by 2 enter" - 1.136868377216160297393798828125e-13 as you can see it will go on to infinity, but you will never get 0! __________________ If TSF has helped you, Tell us about it! or Donate to help keep the site up! I do not subscribe to threads, so if I stop replying, PM me with a link to your thread so I can find it again. Last edited by elf; 11-12-2005 at 07:48 AM.

01-13-2005, 06:26 PM	#3 (permalink)
Sarge TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Earth Posts: 653 OS: Windows XP Pro x64	What's the difference between "undefined" and "Empty Set"? Oh, and is there a mathematical symbol for "Undefined"? I was fairly sure that Infinity divided by Zero couldn't still be Zero....

01-13-2005, 07:35 PM	#5 (permalink)
Sarge TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Earth Posts: 653 OS: Windows XP Pro x64	Ok, now you're just thinking to hard. More drinking, less thinking.

01-14-2005, 08:39 AM	#6 (permalink)
Chevy Retired Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Notlob Posts: 5,452 OS: Vista Ultimate My System	Elf, I don't know about that. 0 is a valid value in and of itself. Dividing by 0, however, returns nothing - it has no value, therefore no cardinality.

11-11-2005, 09:47 AM	#11 (permalink)
PurpleSky Guest Posts: n/a OS:	I believe everyone has the right to have an answer to this question. Technically you can not divide a number into 0 and the answer would be undefined. But if we are talking about infinity a question arises. Do you believe in infinity ? I personally believe in the possibility of infinity as i believe in god. But i dont believe in infinity so the answer would be undefined to me. But if you do believe in infinity then it would include the " secret of 0 " So the answer would be the infinity.

11-12-2005, 11:35 AM	#15 (permalink)
kodi Moderator Hardware Team Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 7,398 OS: Windows 7-Ultimate 64 Bit My System	Whosdat, Have you been watching the kids videos again? __________________ Brian

11-12-2005, 02:25 PM	#16 (permalink)
ebackhus Manager, Design Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: SATX Posts: 14,284 OS: WinXP Pro SP3/Windows 7 RTM My System Blog Entries: 28	Infinity isn't a number... It just means "continuing indefinetly." __________________ ----------------------------- There are no dumb questions, unless a customer is asking them. Help in the fight against cancer and other serious illnesses.

11-12-2005, 05:09 PM	#17 (permalink)
~~whodat~~ Register user Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 5,931 OS: XP	jimmy neutron

11-13-2005, 09:34 PM	#18 (permalink)
Emporer_D Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 243 OS: Windows 7 Beta, Ubuntu 8.04 My System	Holy cow. I don't like math NOW. I hope I never get into this. __________________ Your mind is like a sword, it's easier to kill people when it's sharp.

11-14-2005, 12:21 AM	#19 (permalink)
JeremyC Resident Alchemist Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,148 OS: SuSE 10.0/XP Pro	i still cant distrubute properly __________________

11-14-2005, 12:29 AM	#20 (permalink)
mgoldb2 TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 604 OS: windows xp	Like Elf was hinted at what he proberly means is not divided by 0 but the limit as it approaches 0. The very first thing you will learn in any calculus corse is about limits since it is the bases of calculus. for example 3/x limit X->0 would equal infinity. on the other hand 3/x as limitX->infity equal 0. __________________