sobeit

Now there are thousands of individuals who are having to be rescued because they failed to heed the evacuation warnings now that Ike has passed over Texas.

What do you think should be done with those needing rescued?

Mcninjaguy

what I feel about those who refused to evacuate cannot be posted in a family forum

that is how I totally fell

Drew1369

Just like Katrina... twits

qbawl

Depends on why they didn't leave. They should be rescued if possible, despite how dangerous and foolish it is to stay. And, unless they have a super excuse for not leaving, they should pay a penalty, IMO.

The only reasons I can think of for staying is injury or illness and the possibility that no help was available. Not likely but possible.

WereBo

I can understand the reluctance to evacuate, with the possibility of looting etc., but I think a lot of officials have learnt a lot of lessons after Katrina/New Orleans, so that threat should be removed this time.

I don't think there's any acceptable excuse for staying, really. If they're too ill to be moved, then why aren't they in a hospital?

At the same time, I'm also of the opinion of - if they want to stay, for whatever reason, then let 'em. If they don't survive, they're removed from the gene-pool.

I'm glad it's not my decision to make, though.

qbawl

I recently had major surgery but was in the hospital for only four days. Twelve days have passed since I was released, and so far, I haven't left my house but once, for 30 minutes or so. My son took me to Starbucks (about a mile from home). Very uncomfortable and in far more pain than anticipated, I couldn't finish my latte and needed to go back home. I thought when leaving the house that I was strong enough and would have the stamina for so minor an adventure - I was wrong. There's no way I could travel away from here (San Francisco) if we were to somehow be hit by a huge hurricane. So, again, people may have good reasons for staying behind.

I hope you remain healthy and never need to find out the hard way that your opinion is pretty tough on some folks. Old and frail, sick or badly injured don't equate to being naive or too stupid to try to avoid a catastrophic storm, even if a person is well enough to be out of the hospital.

ebackhus

We now fine people who intentionally violate warnings and restrictions that were set in place to protect lives. If an idiot decides to go over a low water corssing because they think their ginormous SUV can make, and ends up getting washed away, they are fined at least $500 for the rescue.

If people willingly ignore and order to evacuate and then whine about how bad things are I say make 'em pay. Here in San Antonio I've encountered a fair number of evacuees and believe these people are of sound mind. There's also little excuse for those in hospitals as they were evacuated FIRST days before Ike made landfall. Taxes paid for it so nothing came out of pocket for those people and I'm certian they appreciate the effort made to help them.

WereBo

My apologies qbawl, on re-reading my post, it does come over as being off-hand about folks who remain behind after evacuation orders have been issued. I meant the folks that are, in your words, 'too stupid' to move should be left to stay.

From the little news of the situation, here in the UK, we're given the impression that all frail/elderly/ill folks are being moved out first by the authorities, with the 'general population' being assisted to move, where necessary. It's the general-population that either want to stay or refuse to move that should be left behind. If they want to evacuate but are unable to for whatever reason, then every effort should be made, by the relevant authorities, to help them.

I hope this explains it a bit better

Tsunaru

While I agree with WereBo, one has to wonder how to determine those 'too stupid to move'. Sure, it would be easy AFTER the rescue, but you wouldnt be able to leave them back to pay for their idiocy. Unless you were to poll each person as your helicopter dangles above their house =p. But its easy enough to lie anyway

qbawl

Werebo, thanks for that post. I know that people say things sometimes out of frustration over what seems a ludicrous situation which they don't completely understand. In my own case, there are physical issues in addition to the recent surgery, and help from authorities or not, I'm just simply not up to that sort of move - yet. A few more weeks and I'll be ready for marathons, break-dancing events, and bungee-jumping, but not quite at this moment. Unfortunately, there are people in much worse shape than I who I really feel for in these sorts of situations. I'll be well soon enough; too many of these folks won't.

EnglishPaul

Qbawl, I hope you feel better soon.

But if it is possible for the authorities to move people in hospital (i.e. people 1 day after surgery, people with very serious illness, people with compromised immune systems) it is possible to move you in your current situation.
It may be very painful, and not wanted. But its better that sitting in 2 ft of foul water; with no clean water, food or electricity.

If the provision was there to move ALL people in a suitable manor (and I say if, because I don't know) then those not evacuating did bring it on themselves. They chose to gamble with the storm, and they lost. Surely there should be a limit on the amount that the state should spend helping the stubborn; and I would be for billing them at least for part of the cost.

qbawl

First, thanks.

Next, though I understand what you're saying and realize you believe it, were I in the hurricane zone and in the condition I'm now in, I would not move. I'd be one of those folks who would just take my chances, and I would be gambling, you're right. Under these circumstances though, that would be my choice. The move would not simply be painful, it would be excruciating. Perhaps if I were younger, stronger and didn't already have a few other physical issues, I'd be willing to grit my teeth and stick it out. Sometimes a man can only handle so much, know what I mean?

On the good side, unlike some people with permanent problems, I'm going to heal. The folks who won't (I met and got to know several while in the hospital) are really what prompted me to post in this thread. I don't think people, especially healthy young people who are also strong and fit, understand these kinds of issues, or why they may drive otherwise rational people to do something most consider absolutely crazy. I'm not really crazy, though there are probably a few loose nuts and bolts rattling around in my head. LOL

EnglishPaul

I am lucky enough (and perhaps young enough) to have not been that unwell/ major surgery.

I am not being barbaric in my approach. People should not be expected to face pain, so any well thought out evac should have medical provisions and necessary drugs.
Pain does force people to behave in a non-typical way, and so perhaps there is some benefit (and cost saving) in forcing an evacuation. After all, people in pain in hospital have no choice when they have to be moved.

It is quite frightening to think that there are many people who won't be getting better, and that are far less supported. To be in pain and alone is a horrid thought. And its especially those people that need more state support in times of danger. Sadly, I suspect that it is also those people that have been failed by the authorities and form, in part, some of those rescued.

qbawl

Not barbaric . . .

No, Paul, you're not at all. You're quite reasonable and my apologies to you if my own posts even hinted that I thought that were not the case. I'm sore and on the grumpy side, so I may have come across as overly defensive. The point I was trying to make was hypothetical anyway - I'm not in danger and don't need to be moved, so I'll just drop it now and step aside before I anger or offend anyone.

ebackhus

Specialized ambulances and other transports were brought in to help transport patients and other who required constant medical assitance safely. I saw pictures of prematurely born babies being transported in specialized carriers without even waking them. The effort was being made and the technology, low and high, was available.

WereBo

Awww, there's no need to drop out the thread qbawl, I don't think anyone's angry or taken offence

I hope and pray you're up and about, sprightly-like, soon

EnglishPaul

Yep. I thought better of saying something after qbawl's last post (boy that sounds much more morbid than it is meant to be!), as he wanted to drop the matter.
I certainly wasn't offended. It is actually quite hard to offend me in a debate. In fact, quite opposite, I (try to) make an art of pushing the limits in a debate. But I am very keen to avoid offending in the process, which is why I phrased my last post as I did: to try and explore the point but not offend.

Anyway, back to the topic.