DeathHawk

Big Brother?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...de/6676809.stm

Joefireline

That is exactly what it is! It is ridiculous!

Did you know, that there are like 14 CCTV cameras for every person here? It's a disgrace!

TheAtheist

Minor correction its one camera for every 14 people, not vice versa

Joefireline

Oh, yea, sorry.

TheAtheist

at least i hope theres not 840 million CCTV cameras!

Joefireline

I'm sure there will be someday...

DeathHawk

A good argument i read the other day...that people would be happy having all these cameras if they could actually see what was being watched on their own tv's....an interesting idea!!

Has anyone seen any job vacancies for thought police yet?

MunkyPhil

I live in Liverpool city centre, and I've got a fairly good view of the skyline from my balcony so I should see it around sometime soon. It's getting out of control now what the police are allowed to 'see' without us knowing, although I hear it's only going to be used over the pubs and clubs, where all the trouble is.

8210GUY

Well given todays crime and the yob mentality of what seems to be most kids these days I'm all for it, anything that catches these little git's and helps get the country back into a more respectable place to live the better IMHO, not to mention it will save loads of money, imagine the cost of running that as opposed to a helicopter ?
I'm always confused as to why people worry so much over such things TBH, if you aren't doing anything wrong then who cares if someone looks at you ?
Thats almost the same as some kid saying what you looking at just because you glance in their direction, if your doing nothing wrong theres nothing to see.
I do agree though that if such things were ever used to spy on people just because they had nothing better to do then thats wrong, but so long as it just passes over on it's way to finding someone up to no good then thats fine with me.

DeathHawk

8210GUY

I agree with you there but what really annoys me about all this privacy business is that the government can virtually do what they want in the name of security and yet they have just made themselves exempt from a bill that would have made them reveal their pay and expenses claims under the freedom of information act....talk about one law for them and one for us...corrupt as hell!!

Bring back the stocks...flogging and the gallows...and maybe even a public tv show where these little gits you mention are paraded on tv to be humiliated and then thrown in a pit of lions....or is that taking things a bit too far?

8210GUY

Hey works for me lol, bring back the death penalty I say, with todays science there should never be a mistake theoretically, and so long as it is only used where the evidence is so indisputable it will be fine, should there even be a hairs breath of doubt commute it to life, pretty easy I think.
One of the first things they want to do though is take all those bleeding liberal hearts saying poor darlings have had a hard life and shoot them, actually no stick them in the middle of a crowd of their little darlings and let them feel the truth first hand, we've all had a hard time, so why should they be let off and others not, again it's a bit like you say with one law for one and another for the rest.
But I tell you something for nothing, get the true criminals doing life (the old school bank robbers etc) and get them on the sentencing bench, they'll sort these git's out, but I do agree double standards is not on, I wont accept it from myself so no way will I accept from anywhere else.

Joefireline

8210GUY, I really disagree with some of the stuff you are saying:
1, not most kids that are causing trouble, it's the older, 18+. I don't cause trouble, and I don't want people spying on me.
2, a helicopter wouldn't be run anyway.
3, I care if people are looking at me, ever heard of privacy? I like a bit of that thanks. Soon, they are going to start putting CCTV cameras in our houses, and start using it for the wrong reasons.
4, If someone says to me, 'what you looking at', I say, 'a complete spazedicated retart who is paranoid. I only look at them if they speak to me.
5, no way do we want the death penalty back, geezzz, I don't want us to be like America. And I really don't want to be killed because I have been accused of something I didn't do. I'm sure you would be the first person to complain if that happened to some one you loved, who was innocent - or even not innocent. And how the heck is it punishing them? You are just letting them off. Anyway, back on topic...
I think I've made all the points I wanted to...

8210GUY

Well kids as I say doesn't mean only kids, just a case of age I guess, the older you get the more people are younger than you therefore kids if you follow me, there are some really great kids around, I've got all the time in the world for a good one, it's also area related, if your in a good area you may not appreciate what other people like myself have to deal with on a daily basis, just for an example, about 3 doors down from me there has been about 15 police cars, vans and bikes round there in the last 48 hours, I couldn't even get in or out of my own house because the street was blocked by police, and only an hour or so back they were there again and this time grabbed someone, presumably who they were after in the first place, so I would gladly forsake someone watching me cut the grass or wash the car should it mean little git's like them get cleared away.
As to the death penalty you have to read what I said more carefully, I said ONLY when there is absolute proof, eg 20 people saw them and\or it was caught on the camera's that the paranoid seem to hate, any doubt then convert it to life, I know where your coming from about privacy, a mate thinks exactly the same way, I'm not saying everyone should be under constant supervision, but if a camera comes overhead once an hour for a minute or so is it really that big a deal ? more so if that camera catches someone trashing your place then I'm sure you'd be glad of it.

Joefireline

No, I don't live in as bad a place as you do! I rarely see police vehricles around here, only really the ones I see parked at the police station I ride past everyday! Lol.

I still don't think the death penalty is right, how is it punishing them?

I know it's a strange arguement, but, what if, a couple are like naked in their own back yard? Or even just getting changed or sometime, and that thing sees inside? BTW, I'm not saying that I do this! Lol!
Trust me, the police WILL obuse it. It would cause more trouble than it's worth.

8210GUY

Well punishing just doesn't seem to work these days for some, so just get rid of the worst most dangerous rubbish and do the world a favour IMHO, don't forget I'm talking about the worst and nastiest crimes you can imagine for the death penalty, it's not like I'm saying someone dropping a bit of rubbish goes straight into the electric chair ROFL, mind you...... LMMFAO Na to tempting with some of them round here.

I know what you mean about sunbathing etc, one could argue that if someone were free enough to expose their bits in their garden they wouldn't be to worried if someone saw them, or they wouldn't be getting them out in the first place, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be afforded the privacy of their own home etc, it is a very fine line we walk with such things, living where I do I can see nothing but benefit from it, but if your in a good area you wouldn't need any of it, then again money is tight, so logically these sorts of things are mainly going to be used in areas such as mine, where you are would probably be lucky to see one, it's definitely swings and roundabouts, and they should definitely be accountable for any wrong doings such as perving etc, if they put chips in them like a tacho on a lorry then it could be proved where it was at what time so if sunbathers saw it for too long they could make a report and then the footage inspected to check what was being watched, there is no easy answer, but if the country worked together more in getting crime down and not putting up with this yob culture that seems to of developed lately etc then such measures would become redundant, kind of full circle really if you follow me.

Joefireline

The problem is, the death penalty just wouldn't be controled as how you are saying it would be. It wouldn't work like that.
It would become like America, and start killing the wrong people.

The police always spend money on the wrong things, TBH, what would probably happen, is that I would see them, and you wouldn't lol!

8210GUY

Possibly yeah, everyone looks at something in their way, doesn't always mean one is right and one is wrong, just a case of some people will see things you don't, and vice versa, the ideal is both sides see the other point and come to somewhere in the middle.
But just as an example here is the sort of case I would give the death penalty to, then tell me if you still wouldn't.

You have a bloke, lets say he teaches in a gym, and this gym has all sorts of young old etc members, now lets say this bloke is pushing drugs, and that he's also hiding surveillance cameras in the changing rooms, from those tapes he then starts blackmailing people for money or he will send the tape to their other half as it shows them being unfaithful etc, now imagine he takes a personal shine to some of these blackmail cases, and starts forcing them to have sex etc (rape basically), and then he starts drugging them and letting others pay him for a good time with them, by now your probably saying nasty piece of work, but doesn't deserve death yeah ?

Now he's getting braver and starting to pick on younger kids, 13 etc and doing the same stuff to them, then gets them so dependant on drugs they do anything he says just to get their next hit, and some of these kids go so far down they end up committing suicide, bad enough yet ? probably not, but then consider he starts going into the family homes of these people and ends up offering to babysit their younger kids say 5 or 6, and now he starts to abuse them, I'm sure you can see where I'm going, lets just say all that just keeps escalating over the years to the level he starts snatching the kids and torturing them doing what he does, and then starts killing them and mutilating them, say he does about 12 kids like that, enough to kill him yet ?
Now consider he videoed all what he was doing, and he freely admits it as DNA evidence and the video, slip in a couple of eye witness reports of some of the snatches etc, thats the time I'm saying they should get death, but without the video etc it should be death, BUT, if there is any doubt then it should be commuted to life, and it should mean life, it may sound like an extreme case to you, but it's the very sort of case I'm talking about for death, and such cases have and do happen way to much I'm sad to say.

Joefireline

I think you are forgeting something 8210GUY, he would get caught after just doing the drugs! And he would need SERIOUS mental help! I blame his parents, and that goes to their parents, and then that could have been due to something happening etc.

And, I think the thing is, it's help that they need, serious help! They have obviously been brought up craply.

And BTW, the crapper someone is brought up, the crapper they will be. All the smokers, and people who do drugs in our school, are all the ones with CRAP parents.

These sort of things would be on the news big time, so they don't happen much here. America maybe?

Emporer_D

It's just one more step toward the wrong direction. While these could be used for good things, it just makes that much easier to justify going to the next step, and the next step, until virtualy everything you do is being monitered. It's not causing any problems thus far, but it just invites the government to go one step farther.

8210GUY

They happen a lot more here than you'd like to believe, when we moved in here years back they were pulling parts of a dismembered body out of the local pond where the kids would play, and you'd be surprised how far someone could get before they got caught, take some of the big cases in recent years, they pulled in and questioned a murderer more than once if I recall and let him go each time because they had nothing and didn't even know it was him they were looking for, this is a very messed up world, and TBH I'm sick of how poor someones life has been which made them this that and the other, I've had one hell of a life and yet I don't go round doing any of that stuff, so why should someone else, I've said many a time to people I don't do double standards, and if I wouldn't allow it of myself, then I'm sure as not going to take it from someone else, because TBH today they are being taught to go and kill someone then cry and say you've had a hard life and they get a slap on the wrist, if that were me I'd be laughing so hard at the system I would need medical treatment to sew my sides up, honestly they rely on that sort of thinking to get away with what they do, maybe there is a small minority but it is small, you ever seen a bunch of yobs after the police have given them a stern talking to ? they can't stop laughing about how pathetic it was.