mimo2005

College eliminates merit scholarships after apparently deciding it would prefer help poor students .


http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2955100

Drew1369

college is a waste of time anyway

Spatcher

Yeah, one of the colleges I'd like to go (Middlebury College) to doesn't use it.

@Drew: Are you serious? How so?

Drew1369

Very... unless its some weird *** scientific degrees then its a waste... no one looks for degrees anymore unless you also have experience... no experience... no jobs...

I beat out 5 people for a tech position 2 years ago because I had experience... the other 5 only had degrees...

case in point, had they gotten a job instead of going to college they would have had a better chance :)

Talking to one of my friends about it earlier today, he's pissed he went to college cause when he got out with his degree, nothing open fr him cause of no experience... finally got it and is now working with a smile.

college is a waste

forcifer

i dont think so. if you get fired, then what? you have no degree. if i ever have the chance, i hope to get a degree.

-=Rousseau=-

That is if you aim low. Many positions require a college degree along with experience, for example investment banking often requires a Masters degree. (I know because my dad is an investment banker - they also are required to take tests every so often to prove they know the legalities, etc. If you haven't studied the stuff, how are you going to pass the test?)

As far as experience, you can easily work even a full time job while in college. I currently work 20 hours a week while taking a full course load at a University, and I still have plenty of free time. Now if I worked 40 hours a week, which I probably will during my Junior and Senior years (and of course during the summers), I would have very little time for social events, but I would benefit more in the end from experience. (Of course in both cases time must also be set aside for study)

In either case, there is plenty of opportunity to gain experience while in college, via internships or full time/part time jobs. In your case, the 5 competitors with degrees but no experience probably coasted through college and expected their degree to work for them, but didn't realize that getting a good job requires both experience and ability, and a degree only serves to help you get a better job, it doesn't get you the job.

Just to let you know, there are studies about the average earnings that people with various levels of education make, and in every case the people with better education make more money in the end. Honestly, I wouldn't bet my career on experience alone...

Ariesjill

Yo. Fascinating thread.

1) Do not C why an institution can't do both: help based on mert and help for the deprived.

2) I agree with drew; not sorry I went and finished, but believe me, not one thing I get really good at....worked back to my years in college. Also agree that certain arcane tech-based arenas require the hard data of Ivory Tower....though lusting to learn....with chlidlike excitment....then being pro active is key to all things, I believe.

Moreoevah....credentials/certification no WAY ANY MARKER FOR EPT....FORGET EXCELLENCE IN anything. Kinda wish otherwise....but have seen first hand....no way. And I mean in any arena.

Am moved to paste part of somethng I posted in another offline thread....the 3-year-old genius one:


FINALLY, yr reference 2 "preschool pedagogy" distills your take 4 me: that your premise is....formal education (another manifestation of convention) ....influence from the outside in...is the linchpin of or can gestate anything brilliant. Subject works back to figures of authority in a given society...also messages about that pervading in a given family. Truth is....really gifted teachers, are fully open and so students of their students, nevah authoritarian....perceive and foster unique individuals...as opposed to impelmenting doctrinaire curricula with the premise that the tenets of those curricula....define truth or excellence....forget originality, forget genius.
________________________________________

Always knocks me out watching inside the Actor's studio on BRV.....that all those students actually think if they get an MA in acting/directing/playwriting.....that's goanna do sumthing!!!!

Esp delicious recnetly seeing two of my gifted favs: Eddie Murphy (who shold have won) and one of the most irresistible, brilliant guys in any profession: Chris Rock....interviewed by the sycophant Lipton.

Forget musicians. Forget SATATESMEN....VERSUS POLITICIANS. And boy....R we starving for statesmen/real deal individuals right now or wut?

But nothing is black & white (though classic film noir from 40s uses black and white to convey all kinds of colors & nuances!)....another reason I so luv Mimo's avatar: animated ying/yang....always in dynamic movement.

Typed the qabove 3 hours ago....had long client....now am submitting.

I am so lucky to have found this community.

Jill

DumberDrummer

I'm sorry, but for what I want to do, there is no substitute for years of study...

Math/Physics at the higher level / research arena, a phd really is the fast track to what I want to do... not saying I'm going to start out doing the biggest baddest things, but I sincerely doubt I could start out with a high school level math education and work my way up without some kind of studying.

Maybe for a job like a mechanic, or an IT person, experience might be more important. After all, much of I what I know/will know about computers comes from personal experience and experimentation.

However, I can't experimentially teach myself the sum total of math and physics knowledge.

Not to mention that lots of places would rather hire a college grad than a high school grad for the simple reason that it shows that you were willing to put in the 4-8 years of work it took.

yustr

It all depends on the height to which you aspire!

When I have a position open there are usually many more applicants than positions. One of the "easy" factors I use to distill them is degree. Those with one get put in the maybe file. Those without get put in the circular file.

ebackhus

I have limited education but many many years of real-life experience in what I do. I hate it when the college grad walks in the door with not but a sheepskin and gets the job despite not even knowing HALF of what's required. I, on the otherhand, could run circles around that bozo AND the person who hired them in terms of abilities.

Ariesjill

1) re the professinal arenas U address, I have two words: Albert Einstein. Nowww....I have 2 more: LEONARDO DA VINCI. Who lived....in the SIXTEENTH CENTURY, Ok?

He experienced/perceived/was copelled by and humled by and fuelled by... THE PERFECT SYNCHRONICITY BETWEEDN & AMONG ALL LIVING BEINGS AND FORCES IN NATURAL WORLD. U think this owsed to formal education? U think formal education would not have actually compromised all f it rather than augmented it? U think every realk sage riginal sensibility is not also threat 2q the pervading orthodoxy? Hummmmmm?

2) One of the gazillion replicant convictions pervading issss......again, credentials R leading indicater of this and that. Be it in medicine, the artsa, literature or most others, while some demand the ownership of hard data......the mandate is to determine whihc rules & foundational and which r actually arbitra5ry....and always Bring Yr Eyes by Marcel.

I am going to find something to attach from a feature article...first one I did for ORCHIoDS MAG, 90-year old periodical of record for orchid growing community.. Again, I have, to some, if not to me, impressive credentials....though would rather eat worms than waste time on grad degree.....but trust me, not one thing i have come to B to having the privilege of contributing to/do atypically.....owes directly to formal education.

We R each unique and we essentially learn from ourselves....and U bet it's about observation way keen.....and doing. Let me find this....
_______________________________
OK, 1) apologize 4 badly scanned thingy; I need to re scan dozens of things, I didn't get the contrast part when I first got my scanner 2) can't seem 2 find the section addressing hard date, determine viability of each part and then discarding the rest and using eyes by Marcel.....but will atach page offering an example of Eyes by Marcel....opposite of formal education; in this visualization...something I have come to in all endeavors. And, I submit, something we R all capable of and which needs no 4 credit colurse in anything......not can it be harvested thereby....nor does it require that.

3) If I can find the other section which came 2 mind....I will post it....this piece was from 01, is long and that is my excuse.

Attached Images

orchids 5.JPG (375.7 KB, 2 views)

Ariesjill

oK, am in rush....could only fnd two snippets, but will attach those. All about LEARNING...NOT FROM THE OUTSIDE, from the INSIDE.....NOT ABOUT COMPORTING WITH PERVADING RULES VIA ACADEMIC PUNDITS....and I do mean observing & then escaping the truncations of the orthodoxy, and in all things.

This does not mean gobbling up the data from the orthodoxy is not a good beginning....but only small part...means being fully open, but nevha buying into conventinal anything or empowering others in blind obedience/deference. Also means FIND OUT....LEARN.

Most crushing/terrifying thing: someone technically "educated" making instant pronounement about something amazing & complex requiring much exploration/data-gathering-first hand.....making an instant pronouncement with NOT ONE SHRED OF ACTUAL INFORMATION!!!! Sometimes, I C....because it wasn't a part of his or her FORMAL EDUCATION or inadvertantly thimblized belief system. Takes my breath away.

From same blindness/fear, actually: over-investing in some pathetically narrow orthodoxy.

So often works back to the quote from Proust.....and also the new one in my sig from Einstein. who has a related one re not letting yr education get in the way of your intelligence.

J.

Attached Images

2 snippets.jpg (91.4 KB, 3 views)

DumberDrummer

not all of us are davincis or einstiens...

not to mention that DaVinci lived in the 16th century, when a lot of what we know about the world was just being discovered.

Isaac newton, another genius who came a few years later, invented calculus, which I first learned at the age of 16. There's a reason scientists all "stand on the shoulders of giants" to see farther than those who came before.

If we all had to reinvent the wheel everytime the old scientists died, we'd never get anywhere

Ariesjill

I beg 2 differ; we each have it in us to "reinvent the wheel" and acording to our own unique vision.....which also often defines joy.

Buying into orthodox tenets with alacrity.....again, I submit is the Enemy.

Again, and this irony really is senrendipitous.....the ecstacy is.....to learn to HEAR YOUR OWN ENTIRELY UNIQUE "Drummer" and to, ovah a lifetime....move to the sounds which evolve.

As for Leonardo.....nobody came 2 wut he did...given they did that conventinally in the building block way you empower.....until hundreds of years after HIS DEMISE.

Forget, after a certain juncture....bet that he was gay would also have precluded bigtots from celebrating his miraculous eyes by Marcel....who yeah came waaay after him. (Interesting that we all know the Mona Lisa....but his painting genius bored him, actually....and in his entire life, he did only 3 portraits of women....15 years apart) But all valid roads lead to " Rome." e.g. i have been told by eastern friends....that I appear 2 have majored in Eastern Studies! Shocked me. But in my own journey, I have apparently arrived at many of the components of Eastern "thought." without any reading of that per se.

That potential...I submit, is factory-loaded in all of us.

My observation is.....the orthodoxy far more often truncates the emerging of individuals than augnemnts/cultivates/promulgates it.

One piece of hard data screaming 4 iclding at this very juncture: most humans employ only 10% of their brains, OK?

A drumer-indigenous example: U once shared with me in an offlne thread....that U observed the singular brilliance of Gene Krupa and Buddy Rich. also said that wut they did with 4 piece kits.....nobody else can do with Monster kits. THIS....SHOWS U have "ears" by Marcel.
J.

Spatcher

You can't compare Da Vinci to a person today through formal education, heck through anything. He was of rare stock - one of the rarest in all of history. And you're wrong about his lifetime: he lived from 1452 to 1519, basically he lived in the 15th century.

I don't think you know but the formal education in the middle ages meant becoming a PRIEST. I'm guessing around.......... 99.9998% of the universities back then were divinity schools.

"most humans employ only 10% of their brains, OK?"

Ok, I know this but what does this show?

Ariesjill

First re my last post...I edited by exceeded the time allowed, so it;s little messed.

U wanna nit pick, be petulant re centuries & which percentage of a life existed in one versus the other....and bottom of the barrel-scrape? Be my guest, but I ain't playin. This is discussion, not a battle, OK? Point was, that most of his contribution was in the earlier one....brings it HOME.

Yes, blind belief in organized religion has dominated, contaminated may generations. If its mandate were not to preclude INDIVIDUALS "DRIVING" THEIR OWN VEHICLES.....it could not exist altogether. Was one of my points. also not healthy to, out of instant battlemode...conclude wut someone knows or does not know....that to is a journey and an ecstatic one of privilege....forget we learn as we go,,,starting from ourselves.

U want sporting events? Final four in play, Okay?

Fact is....the Ivory Tower orthodoxy mophs into a kind of reglion in and of itself.....is the polint.

Finally....U ask wut is the polnt of raising the fact that most humans employ only 10% of theri brains?????

The point, my friend.....is this addresses our raw, POTENTIAL, THE apalling EXTENT TO WHICH IT GOES UNUSED....chalenging yr conclusion that in potential, each one of us isn't some version of Einstein or Leonardo.

More pragnatically for this exchange....if U owned that awareness emplying the SCIENTIFIC FACT....and had pondered that part of my post instead of throwing down and being adversarial....YOUUUUU WOULD HAVE GOTTEN THAT ON YR OWN...AND, IN JUST THAT RIEF PROCESS...been more in touch with your OWN, little Einstein!!!!

Isssssssss......the point.

J.

Quote just sprang up in internal HDD: "The old order Changeth, leading place to new...and God fulfilLs himself in many ways, lest one GOOD custon should corrupt WORLD....."

(For me, nevah God of any organized religion.)

One more observation: ours....if surely not all of us...only species needing 2 read books or take classes re how to make luv, how to give birth, how to nurture young. Ponder.

I will now look for anther Einstein quote I once posted.

Spatcher

I'm sorry but I don't understand what you're trying to say.

Ariesjill

Tell me which parts....I will do my best to clear up.

Found the quotes....am pasting:

Albert Einstein
Imagination is more important than knowledge.

Albert Einstein
The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education.

Albert Einstein
Technological progress is like an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal.

J.
Addendum: I should share.....that I have comed to the above in my own impassioned journey....only saw those quotes in last month after Googlng in response to posting in aa threaqd and my sensing Einstein must have nailed wut I was trng to convey.....also needing a Big Gun from the orthodoxy at that point.

DumberDrummer

um, 10% is standard... its when you have the ability to use more than that or perhaps your brain works in a different way that you become considered a genius.

And this limitation isn't due to lack of trying, its simply biological. So my conclusion holds

mimo2005

when i read it first ,it looked to me like this :


The only thing that interferes with my learning is my religion .