It pro needing work.

Iced_Flames · 03-05-2009, 01:03 AM

Ok, I know that this is probably not the forum to ask, but I'll ask anyway. I have recently (by recent, I mean the end of last year) finshed a TAFE course relating to networking. In the states, that's roughly equivalent to your "Colleges". I have obtained a dual diploma, which, in the computer industry is like a kindergarden qualification. Anyway, I am in need of work and I don't know where to look. It seems that everyone I have looked at wants "This" degree or "That" many years of experience.

I do not have "real" experience, in terms of I don't know how to program, I don't know how to use any of these "fancy" software packages such as siebel (I have never even heard of it before), and I don't have any industry certifications such as CCNA or MCP. All I have is a diploma saying I know how to set up a basic network, and what I learned in the classroom. Does anyone know where I can go to get entry level work in IT? Keep in mind, I live in melbourne Australia. Thank you for your time.

**bilbus** · 03-09-2009, 04:04 AM

TAFE = 1-2 years right?

A BS degree in the US is 4 years.

Depends on what you want to do with IT. If you want to program getting cisco / ms certs is going to be usless.

If you want to do system / network administration it would be a good place to start.

Look online / local papers?

Go get a ccna, its 2 tests.
Get mcsa, its 4 tests.

If you have no experince or certs why should somone hire you?

Iced_Flames · 03-15-2009, 06:53 AM

Ok, its a two year course that I studied for, so I don't know if that means anything. I know that it's desirable to have a certification and all, but at this time, I can't afford the cost of the courses to study for. I appreciate the advice and all, but what you said sounds pretty grim - "If you have no experince or certs why should somone hire you? "

First of all, it's impossible to get experience if no-one hires you. How do you get the expereience if every job out there wants previous experience? Does that mean that I wasted two years of my life? So basically, anyone who takes this course and does not pursue a degree or a certification can't find any job anywhere?

Well now I'm feeling a LOT better about my prospects in the IT field.

**bilbus** · 03-16-2009, 03:23 AM

No, you can have experince without work experince.

Have you installed some stuff at home, perhaps built a mock network using virtual machines to learn?

Studied for some certs to show you are learning.

Did you expect to finish school and never have to learn anything new? If so IT is the wrong field.

You may be able to get a very entry level job without experince.

Hell i got my first job because i knew more then the guy i was replacing. Usualy somone entry level needed alot of supervision and hand holding ... i needed neither.

My boss had never met a collage grad that knew how use exchange before, i even showed him a few things.

I was able to do this because i learned everything i could.

Iced_Flames · 03-20-2009, 11:24 PM

I am in full agreement with that I mean that what life is: live and learn right? I knew that I have to keep learning, thats education. I don't mean to sound rude or sarcatic or anything like that, it just that I STILL don't have money to go for these certs or anything. Hell, I don't even have money to go and buy a new PC (which I am in desperate need of by the way.)

It's a good idea about the VM's and stuff (All the things I learned in TAFE was done on VMWare and ESX server), but I don't have the hardware to run this stuff. I only have one PC, and it has trouble running it's OWN OS, let alone two or three VMWare ones. Lack of Finances really sucks the life outta ya if you know what I mean.

Thanks for the help by the way. Maybe I should look for work elsewhere? Maybe a good sales and marketing role would be more me. Without certs and stuff, I'll get nowhere in IT.

**bilbus** · 03-21-2009, 02:33 AM

Microsoft technet has free virtual labs also

So you spend money on tht training, but dont want to spend another few $100 more for some basic certs?

You think someone is going to hire you for sales knowing you have never sold anything.

If you want to stick with IT, go apply at a local computer store .. something like repairing.

Iced_Flames · 04-02-2009, 11:44 PM

For the record, the course I enrolled in cost less then 100$ (60$ exactly) for the whole duration because I am on welfare payments and have a health care card. By the way, how do you know that I've never sold anything? I don't think I ever told anyone what I did before I took the course...I only put the idea there, I'm not sure where to go now.

What is is your trying to tell me here? That I am stuck in working in some dusty old PC shop, that unless I have a few grand to go for certs and degrees that I am worthless?

To me $100 is like striking oil or something. I do not have that much money, I get about $350 every fortnight. So after I pay rent and bills and whatever, I usually have less then $100 to spend. How do I pay a couple of hundred dollars to go for a cert when I can't afford it?

Look, I don't want to debate. All I am going to say is that I have given up on IT for now. Maybe later on, I can go for SOME cert, but until then...who the hell knows?

SilverDwn · 04-03-2009, 04:34 AM

I know how your feeling. I had top work in warehouses and factiries for 2 years before I got a job in IT. I all had was a college diploma. Had no certs. Now i've been working in IT (networking) for 3 years. I have a CCNA, semi CCNP, but I didint take my certs until I actually had a job in IT.

I would give more advice but the titile of this thread is misleading. IT pro needing work? With all due respect, you're not a pro, your a former college student. Hell I've been in IT 3 years and i'm not even a pro..yet!

If you want a job in networking, start from ground up, it may involve climbing through roofs pulling CAT5 through fiber glass stuffed attics (stuff itches like hell!!).

Good luck to you

**bilbus** · 04-03-2009, 05:55 AM

Good point silver, he is entry level yet thinks he should just be given a great job. You need to learn and work hard to get a higher level job.

Tumbleweed36 · 04-03-2009, 06:04 AM

Have you tried at local school corporations, I know it is entry level, but that is how you get your foot in the door for experience?

Commander Data · 04-03-2009, 07:45 PM

I know this catch 22. Been there done that.

However, if you r e a l l y wanted to get CBT stuff, ebooks, pretty much anything you want, there's nothing stopping you. It's like getting candy from a baby. You can set up virtualization on your PC and deploy OS, Install SQL, IIS, Sharepoint, you name it. You can go step by step with training materials at your leasure. So then you can list that you have some knowledge of this on a resume. It's not real world, but most phone screens ask you about 5 questions such as how to troubleshoot, find log files, etc.

Now let's put that aside.

When I was in college, I never played by the rules, I was a lazy sob and crafty. I registered the week before classes started, got my financial aid never stood in lines etc. So who are you? Are you the person that gets in line #4236 person and hope you win your lottery one day or are you aggressive and willing to get in there and prove yourself, and pay your dues?

I think an A+ cert is a bit of a joke, but if that's what it takes for you to get a job in a dusty old comp shop and to do some side work, then so be it.

I worked in the Data Centers as a tech \ cable monkey in order to get my foot in the door in the industry here for $18hr. Two of the guys I worked with came from a failing PC store and they both used the cable monkey positions to propel themselves with real world work while continuing their studies. They are both quite successful now.

I don't see many IT jobs posted for Melbourne, but rest assured anything that can be outsourced to India or China will be. So you need to work on a skill set that's in demand. The thing about certs is, that they constantly need to be upgraded. You can get an MCSE or MCITP, but it will need to be updated in a few years. A college degree doesnt expire. A specialization in networking CCNA, CCNP at the least means that you will always be a guru in networking, and not try to defend 18 other architectures as a generalist.

So, what do you think you want to do? Set your eyes on a course and go for it.

03-05-2009, 01:03 AM	#1 (permalink)
Iced_Flames Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5 OS: Windows Xp professional service pack 3	It pro needing work. Ok, I know that this is probably not the forum to ask, but I'll ask anyway. I have recently (by recent, I mean the end of last year) finshed a TAFE course relating to networking. In the states, that's roughly equivalent to your "Colleges". I have obtained a dual diploma, which, in the computer industry is like a kindergarden qualification. Anyway, I am in need of work and I don't know where to look. It seems that everyone I have looked at wants "This" degree or "That" many years of experience. I do not have "real" experience, in terms of I don't know how to program, I don't know how to use any of these "fancy" software packages such as siebel (I have never even heard of it before), and I don't have any industry certifications such as CCNA or MCP. All I have is a diploma saying I know how to set up a basic network, and what I learned in the classroom. Does anyone know where I can go to get entry level work in IT? Keep in mind, I live in melbourne Australia. Thank you for your time.

03-09-2009, 04:04 AM	#2 (permalink)
bilbus TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 949 OS: OS2 Warp	Re: It pro needing work. TAFE = 1-2 years right? A BS degree in the US is 4 years. Depends on what you want to do with IT. If you want to program getting cisco / ms certs is going to be usless. If you want to do system / network administration it would be a good place to start. Look online / local papers? Go get a ccna, its 2 tests. Get mcsa, its 4 tests. If you have no experince or certs why should somone hire you?

03-15-2009, 06:53 AM	#3 (permalink)
Iced_Flames Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5 OS: Windows Xp professional service pack 3	Re: It pro needing work. Ok, its a two year course that I studied for, so I don't know if that means anything. I know that it's desirable to have a certification and all, but at this time, I can't afford the cost of the courses to study for. I appreciate the advice and all, but what you said sounds pretty grim - "If you have no experince or certs why should somone hire you? " First of all, it's impossible to get experience if no-one hires you. How do you get the expereience if every job out there wants previous experience? Does that mean that I wasted two years of my life? So basically, anyone who takes this course and does not pursue a degree or a certification can't find any job anywhere? Well now I'm feeling a LOT better about my prospects in the IT field.

03-16-2009, 03:23 AM	#4 (permalink)
bilbus TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 949 OS: OS2 Warp	Re: It pro needing work. No, you can have experince without work experince. Have you installed some stuff at home, perhaps built a mock network using virtual machines to learn? Studied for some certs to show you are learning. Did you expect to finish school and never have to learn anything new? If so IT is the wrong field. You may be able to get a very entry level job without experince. Hell i got my first job because i knew more then the guy i was replacing. Usualy somone entry level needed alot of supervision and hand holding ... i needed neither. My boss had never met a collage grad that knew how use exchange before, i even showed him a few things. I was able to do this because i learned everything i could.

03-20-2009, 11:24 PM	#5 (permalink)
Iced_Flames Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5 OS: Windows Xp professional service pack 3	Re: It pro needing work. I am in full agreement with that I mean that what life is: live and learn right? I knew that I have to keep learning, thats education. I don't mean to sound rude or sarcatic or anything like that, it just that I STILL don't have money to go for these certs or anything. Hell, I don't even have money to go and buy a new PC (which I am in desperate need of by the way.) It's a good idea about the VM's and stuff (All the things I learned in TAFE was done on VMWare and ESX server), but I don't have the hardware to run this stuff. I only have one PC, and it has trouble running it's OWN OS, let alone two or three VMWare ones. Lack of Finances really sucks the life outta ya if you know what I mean. Thanks for the help by the way. Maybe I should look for work elsewhere? Maybe a good sales and marketing role would be more me. Without certs and stuff, I'll get nowhere in IT.

03-21-2009, 02:33 AM	#6 (permalink)
bilbus TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 949 OS: OS2 Warp	Re: It pro needing work. Microsoft technet has free virtual labs also So you spend money on tht training, but dont want to spend another few $100 more for some basic certs? You think someone is going to hire you for sales knowing you have never sold anything. If you want to stick with IT, go apply at a local computer store .. something like repairing. Last edited by bilbus; 03-21-2009 at 02:35 AM.

04-02-2009, 11:44 PM	#7 (permalink)
Iced_Flames Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5 OS: Windows Xp professional service pack 3	Re: It pro needing work. For the record, the course I enrolled in cost less then 100$ (60$ exactly) for the whole duration because I am on welfare payments and have a health care card. By the way, how do you know that I've never sold anything? I don't think I ever told anyone what I did before I took the course...I only put the idea there, I'm not sure where to go now. What is is your trying to tell me here? That I am stuck in working in some dusty old PC shop, that unless I have a few grand to go for certs and degrees that I am worthless? To me $100 is like striking oil or something. I do not have that much money, I get about $350 every fortnight. So after I pay rent and bills and whatever, I usually have less then $100 to spend. How do I pay a couple of hundred dollars to go for a cert when I can't afford it? Look, I don't want to debate. All I am going to say is that I have given up on IT for now. Maybe later on, I can go for SOME cert, but until then...who the hell knows?

04-03-2009, 04:34 AM	#8 (permalink)
SilverDwn Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 30 OS: XP SP2	Re: It pro needing work. I know how your feeling. I had top work in warehouses and factiries for 2 years before I got a job in IT. I all had was a college diploma. Had no certs. Now i've been working in IT (networking) for 3 years. I have a CCNA, semi CCNP, but I didint take my certs until I actually had a job in IT. I would give more advice but the titile of this thread is misleading. IT pro needing work? With all due respect, you're not a pro, your a former college student. Hell I've been in IT 3 years and i'm not even a pro..yet! If you want a job in networking, start from ground up, it may involve climbing through roofs pulling CAT5 through fiber glass stuffed attics (stuff itches like hell!!). Good luck to you

04-03-2009, 05:55 AM	#9 (permalink)
bilbus TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 949 OS: OS2 Warp	Re: It pro needing work. Good point silver, he is entry level yet thinks he should just be given a great job. You need to learn and work hard to get a higher level job.

04-03-2009, 06:04 AM	#10 (permalink)
Tumbleweed36 Asst Manager Hardware Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA Posts: 19,488 OS: XP Professional	Re: It pro needing work. Have you tried at local school corporations, I know it is entry level, but that is how you get your foot in the door for experience? __________________ ---------- I don't receive email notifications of replies to subscribed threads. (Internet provider policy) Therefore, if I don't respond to your post within 24 hours, please send me a reminder PM and include the link to your thread.

04-03-2009, 07:45 PM	#11 (permalink)
Commander Data Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 226 OS: Win 7 My System	Re: It pro needing work. I know this catch 22. Been there done that. However, if you r e a l l y wanted to get CBT stuff, ebooks, pretty much anything you want, there's nothing stopping you. It's like getting candy from a baby. You can set up virtualization on your PC and deploy OS, Install SQL, IIS, Sharepoint, you name it. You can go step by step with training materials at your leasure. So then you can list that you have some knowledge of this on a resume. It's not real world, but most phone screens ask you about 5 questions such as how to troubleshoot, find log files, etc. Now let's put that aside. When I was in college, I never played by the rules, I was a lazy sob and crafty. I registered the week before classes started, got my financial aid never stood in lines etc. So who are you? Are you the person that gets in line #4236 person and hope you win your lottery one day or are you aggressive and willing to get in there and prove yourself, and pay your dues? I think an A+ cert is a bit of a joke, but if that's what it takes for you to get a job in a dusty old comp shop and to do some side work, then so be it. I worked in the Data Centers as a tech \ cable monkey in order to get my foot in the door in the industry here for $18hr. Two of the guys I worked with came from a failing PC store and they both used the cable monkey positions to propel themselves with real world work while continuing their studies. They are both quite successful now. I don't see many IT jobs posted for Melbourne, but rest assured anything that can be outsourced to India or China will be. So you need to work on a skill set that's in demand. The thing about certs is, that they constantly need to be upgraded. You can get an MCSE or MCITP, but it will need to be updated in a few years. A college degree doesnt expire. A specialization in networking CCNA, CCNP at the least means that you will always be a guru in networking, and not try to defend 18 other architectures as a generalist. So, what do you think you want to do? Set your eyes on a course and go for it.