[SOLVED] Router Access

[freeload]

Hello guys! I again have a problem for us to solve.

I have an imaginary network setup. There are two routers and a PC.

say each router has 1 LAN port and 1 WAN port. Router A has the following configuration:

Router A

WAN Interface
WAN IP: 222.127.65.135
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.255
Default Gateway: 222.127.65.1

LAN Interface
LAN IP: 192.168.1.1
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway: 222.127.65.1

Router B has the following configuration

Router B

WAN Interface
WAN IP: 192.168.1.2
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway: 192.168.1.1

LAN Interface
LAN IP: 192.168.2.1
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway: 192.168.1.1

PC A has the following configuration

PC A

LAN Interface
LAN IP: 192.168.2.2
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway: 192.168.2.1

Router B is connected to router A and PC A is connected to router B. Router A's route table is configured to enable routing signals to from router A to PC A.

My question is: is it possible to access router A's access page using

PC A?

[Suncoast]

That depends on whether NAT is enabled on Router B, if a Dynamic routing protocol is in use on both routers, or a static route to the Router B LAN exists on Router A. Otherwise Router A will not be aware of the Router B LAN and will default route traffic for 192.168.2.0 out WAN A. And I don't like the WAN A Netmask.

[freeload]

Originally Posted by Suncoast

Otherwise Router A will not be aware of the Router B LAN and will default route traffic for 192.168.2.0 out WAN A. And I don't like the WAN A Netmask.

I think so too.

Originally Posted by Suncoast

That depends on whether NAT is enabled on Router B, if a Dynamic routing protocol is in use on both routers, or a static route to the Router B LAN exists on Router A.

Yes NAT is enabled on router B and there is also a static route from router A to router B LAN. But what I don't understand is this phrase, "if a Dynamic routing protocol is in use on both routers." Can you give an example of a dynamic routing protocol please?

[Suncoast]

A Dynamic Routing Protocol is a general summary of all smart routing protocols like RIP, OSPF, EIGRP, and so on. (Divided into Link State and Distance Vector Protocols.) These protocols are designed to automatically change the data paths through a network as conditions change based on mathematical calculations and conversations with other routers speaking the same language.

This is in contrast to Static Routing, where the routes are manually decided by we Humans. Static Routes do not employ a routing protocol, the routers do not talk to each other, and they will not try to automatically find a new route if say an Ethernet cable is disconnected on an active data path.

Yes NAT is enabled on router B and there is also a static route from router A to router B LAN.

If you're using NAT on A and B, you don't need a static route. LAN B hosts will get a new Global IP identity through Router B's NAT on WAN B/LAN A. So packets will automatically get routed, because they will appear to Router A as a local LAN A host. But hosts on LAN B will get hit with NAT twice, which is an unnecessary second delay. Also, hosts on LAN A will not be able to talk to LAN B hosts by there LAN B IP Address. There are a couple of ways to make it work without the second NAT.

[MusicMan374]

If router B is on the same network, shouldn't IP address/default gateway be 192.168.1.2 and router A's IP be 192.168.1.1? Then you set router B to router mode instead of gateway. Turn DHCP off on router B and all works like a charm.

This is how I did my setup:

Router A:
WAN:
24.16.20.---
DNS servers are automatic
LAN/WLAN:
Mode: gateway
IP address: 192.168.1.1
Subnet mask 255.255.255.0
DHCP on
MTU automatic
Default gateway auto acquired from ISP as well as Internet IP address

ROUTER B:
WAN: disabled (ethernet cable from router A to router B's 1st ethernet port)
Mode: router
LAN:
Router IP: 192.168.1.2
DHCP off

Both routers have WPA-PSK enabled, and this setup works great for my WRT160N and WRT54G combo.

PC1 connected to router 1 via ethernet

PC2 connected to router 1 via 802.11g

Xbox 360 connected to router 2 via 802.11g

Correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't that setup work?

[Suncoast]

Well, in his case they aren't on the same network.

And Yep! That will work perfectly. You're extending your wireless range with the second wireless router as a wireless access point and getting additional remote switch ports. Normally a switch to switch connection requires a cross-over Ethernet cable, so yours must do this automatically. However I believe the original poster is referring to more traditional routers.

[MusicMan374]

But from what it looks like he's trying to do is hook up router A with router B with an ethernet cable, but he would be plugging it into router B with the WAN port, because he's saying the default gateway would be that of router A..? Technically shouldn't he just plug the router A into router B via a normal ethernet port, putting the router on the network like any other computer, internet access and all?

[Suncoast]

He didn't provide that information, so I don't know. What if Router A is a Cisco 7301 Edge router, and Router B is a 2811 router setup in a remote building, and they were connected by fiber optics? By eliminating extra information, the person asking the question gets a hyper focus on what they are really trying to figure out.

[MusicMan374]

Yes, he does need to give more information about this imaginary setup, router models, specific locations/connections, etc.

[MusicMan374]

Okay I know this is kinda rude to do but no one will answer my thread could you take a look? Internet speeds slow over WLAN..?

[MusicMan374]

give us more details if you ever check back onthis thread

[freeload]

Originally Posted by MusicMan374

But from what it looks like he's trying to do is hook up router A with router B with an ethernet cable, but he would be plugging it into router B with the WAN port, because he's saying the default gateway would be that of router A..?

Sorry for getting back to you in this topic quite late. The reason for the lateness is that I still need to clarify things up with the Network Address Translation. Because I was thinking of making routers A and B to be Prolink Hurricane 5200. And there seems to be no page on the said router to configure the NAT table. But thanks to Suncoast's raising up about NAT on routers A and B, I had found a pretty decent explanation about it. Although I still doesn't have a reply about configuring NAT on the said router on a different forum.

Anyway just for clarification I was trying to connect router B's WAN port to one of router A's LAN port.

[freeload]

Originally Posted by MusicMan374

If router B is on the same network, shouldn't IP address/default gateway be 192.168.1.2 and router A's IP be 192.168.1.1?

Yes MusicMan374 you're right that routers A and B are on the same network. As a matter of fact router A's LAN IP is 192.168.1.1, and router B's LAN IP is 192.168.1.2. These are correct chain of thought. But please be reminded that router B is acting as a DHCP/NAT server. That means it acts as a router. And a router has two IP addresses on it namely WAN IP (192.168.1.2) and LAN IP (192.168.2.1).

[Suncoast]

I'm not sure why you want two of these? The ADSL port is not compatible with Ethernet, so you can't daisy chain them using the WAN/ADSL port on Router B.

This appears to be a highly configurable modem/router. Definitely a techy unit.

[freeload]

Originally Posted by Suncoast

I'm not sure why you want two of these? The ADSL port is not compatible with Ethernet, so you can't daisy chain them using the WAN/ADSL port on Router B.

Yes that's true. So I guess I need another router with a WAN port that is compatible with a RJ 45 connector as my router B.

I have already understood about the NAT, and putting static routes on router A Suncoast. And I believe these would clear things up in my mind.

I've been thinking also about changing the LAN IP of PC A behind router B from 192.168.2.2 to 192.168.3.1. I'm thinking that the effect of this change is that router B would not know the route to use to send an echo reply to PC A since router B and PC A are not on the same network if the said PC send a ping request even if NAT is enabled on router B right?

[Suncoast]

If you're using NAT on Router B, then LAN B can use any private network ID you like.* Because when Router B uses NAT, it's changing the IP address. Assuming PC 1 gets an IP address assigned with DHCP of 192.168.2.10, and Router B WAN B is assigned IP address 192.168.1.2.

Ping 192.168.1.1

[PC 192.168.2.10] --packet-->[192.168.2.10 >Router B, LAN B]
NAT now translates the IP address to it's WAN Port IP as
[Router B WAN B > 192.168.1.2]--packet--> [Router A LAN A]

Ping packet received, response sent

[Router B WAN B < 192.168.1.2]<--packet-- [Router A LAN A]
NAT now translates the IP address Back to a LAN B Address
[PC 192.168.2.10] <--packet--[192.168.2.10 <Router B, LAN B]

Response received

If you want to use routing, switching to a network ID of 192.168.2.0/255.255.254.0, (which is the same as saying both network 192.168.2.0 and 192.168.3.0) you get more options. If your Router A permits static routing, like the Linksys WAG54GS or the WRT54GS, you can do this:

--------------------------------
Router A

WAN Interface
WAN IP: 222.127.65.135
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway: 222.127.65.1
NAT Outside

LAN Interface
LAN IP: 192.168.2.1
Subnet Mask: 255.255.254.0 **
Default Gateway: 192.168.2.1
-ADD STATIC ROUTE network 192.168.3.0/24 TO 192.168.2.2
NAT Inside

Router B has the following configuration

Router B

WAN Interface
WAN IP: 192.168.2.2
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway: 192.168.2.1
(NO NAT)

LAN Interface
LAN IP: 192.168.3.1
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway: 192.168.3.1
DHCP Enabled

PC A has the following configuration

PC A

LAN Interface
LAN IP: 192.168.3.10
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway: 192.168.3.1
-----------------------------

Now you've put all your NAT stuff in one place. This will make time sensitive protocols like VOIP and gaming faster, and you've actually implemented routing on your Network. However this is a more complex setup, which really needs either an interest in networking, or some specific need. I've probably gone too far off track with this, so I'll wait to hear from you.


Steve

(* To make your addressing schema less confusing, you should avoid using the same network ID on both sides of the NAT, but there is nothing preventing it.)
(**This is a work-around due the basic nature of these routers. Use this netmask on LAN A Interface ONLY. All other interfaces use the standard 255.255.255.0 mask. A standard mask should be attempted first, as it may work on some home routers I am not familiar with.)

Edit: I just noticed an error in your original post. Since you're using NAT on Router A, your default Gateway would the be the IP address of LAN A.

[freeload]

Originally Posted by Suncoast

Since you're using NAT on Router A, your default Gateway would the be the IP address of LAN A.

You're right.

And you're example about the subnet mask: 254 helped clear things up. I thank you for bringing up such a comprehensive example.

Since I don't have any other questions, I guess this topic is closed. Once again thanks to MusicMan374, and Suncoast for helping me clear things up.

[Suncoast]

My pleasure, I enjoyed the exercise. If you like, you can click on thread tools and mark this solved.

[arunpushkar]

i have a cisco 2514 router .while booting it stops at perticular position i am not able to get any help from any where .can you help me out as i have three 2514 cisco router with same problem. i requires your urgent help thanking you in advance. My router gives following output in hyperterminal: and stops



System Bootstrap, Version 11.0(10c)XB2, PLATFORM SPECIFIC RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)

Copyright (c) 1986-1998 by cisco Systems
2500 processor with 14336 Kbytes of main memory

F3: 4255252+56448+236908 at 0x3000060

Restricted Rights Legend

Use, duplication, or disclosure by the Government is
subject to restrictions as set forth in subparagraph
(c) of the Commercial Computer Software - Restricted
Rights clause at FAR sec. 52.227-19 and subparagraph
(c) (1) (ii) of the Rights in Technical Data and Computer
Software clause at DFARS sec. 252.227-7013.

cisco Systems, Inc.
170 West Tasman Drive
San Jose, California 95134-1706



Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software
IOS (tm) 2500 Software (C2500-I-L), Version 11.2(23), RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
Copyright (c) 1986-2000 by cisco Systems, Inc.
Compiled Thu 06-Jul-00 14:24 by torowe
Image text-base: 0x03023248, data-base: 0x00001000

cisco 2500 (68030) processor (revision L) with 14336K/2048K bytes of memory.
Processor board ID 22656816, with hardware revision 00000000
Bridging software.
X.25 software, Version 2.0, NET2, BFE and GOSIP compliant.
2 Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 interface(s)
2 Serial network interface(s)
32K bytes of non-volatile configuration memory.
8192K bytes of processor board System flash (Read ONLY)
--- System Configuration Dialog ---

At any point you may enter a question mark '?' for help.
Use ctrl-c to abort configuration dialog at any prompt.
Default settings are in square brackets '[]'.
Would you like to enter the initial configuration dialog? [yes]:


Press RETURN to get started!


%LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Ethernet0, changed state to up
%LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Ethernet1, changed state to up
%LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Serial0, changed state to down
%LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Serial1, changed state to down
%LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Ethernet0, changed state to down

%LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Ethernet1, changed state to down

%LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Serial0, changed state to down
%LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Serial1, changed state to down
%SYS-5-RESTART: System restarted --
Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software
IOS (tm) 2500 Software (C2500-I-L), Version 11.2(23), RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
Copyright (c) 1986-2000 by cisco Systems, Inc.
Compiled Thu 06-Jul-00 14:24 by torowe
%LINK-5-CHANGED: Interface Ethernet0, changed state to administratively down
%LINK-5-CHANGED: Interface Ethernet1, changed state to administratively down
%LINK-5-CHANGED: Interface Serial0, changed state to administratively down
%LINK-5-CHANGED: Interface Serial1, changed state to administratively down

[MusicMan374]

make your own thread ;)