extending network outdors to ajacent building

kielu84 · 02-26-2009, 12:34 AM

hi, I am a student and i am designing a network for a small business. I have to extend the network from the main building to another building approx 750' from the main building. The building I have to extend the network to has poured concrete walls.

What kind of device should I use to do so? Also, do they make outdoor wireless adapters. I think that the concrete would definitely attenuate the signal through the walls.

**johnwill** · 02-27-2009, 08:53 AM

I'd use something like these [HAO14SD] Outdoor Hi-Gain 14dBi Directional Antenna Kit on each end connected to a wireless bridge. You're right, the concrete walls would be a real issue.

Note that you'll still need line of sight between the two antennas, if there are obstructions you will probably still have issues.

Ptroy · 02-28-2009, 11:45 AM

You could run Fiber optics cabling, but it would be more expensive. It would probably be the way to go though. If setup right it would be more secure and you would probably have a stronger signal. Or like what was said in the previous post.

**johnwill** · 03-01-2009, 08:07 AM

Well, I agree that fiber is the best way to solve this, I kinda' figured that the cost would put him off. The fiber isn't that expensive, but the trench would be.

kielu84 · 03-02-2009, 08:12 PM

The fact that there is only one computer in the building I'm extending the network to. Also, the budget is $30k. That includes labor, wiring the main building, server, software, security, extending the network to that adjacent building.

ThePistonDoctor · 03-02-2009, 10:20 PM

For only 750' you should be able to get away with fiber with that kinda budget.

I wish I had a budget of 30K lol

**johnwill** · 03-03-2009, 06:46 AM

Well, the solution I presented should weigh in at less than $1000 for everything, and if you have line-of-sight, it should work just fine.

kielu84 · 03-03-2009, 08:09 AM

I like your idea johnwill. I think its the cheapest and most inexpensive way to go about this. If I run fiber I also have to buy the equipment for it too, not to mention the labor to tear up the parking lot, ect.

ThePistonDoctor · 03-03-2009, 06:17 PM

Very true. Also consider security. You are putting everything on your network out into the space between the two buildings, so make sure that it is protected.

Soulblazer91 · 03-03-2009, 06:56 PM

another very simple solution is to create a vpn for the outside client. A very simple program called "Hamachi" would solve this perfectly if the user has internet connection. You could create an account on a computer already inside the network and another on the outside computer. When you add the outside computer to the new "Hamachi" network you can remotely connect to the computer inside the network and have access to everything in the business. this is very secure as the connection is encrypted with an md5 hash. it is also freeware and is quite amazing in my opinion. with the money you would be saving you could even buy another computer to act as a terminal server to run hamachi on. good luck on the project buddy.

Soulblazer91 · 03-03-2009, 06:58 PM

is it important you use all the money? does it carry over to the yearly budget? otherwise look into an actual vpn hardware device such as Juniper Network's SA700 SSL VPN. This method allows you to integrate all other devices in your network. Juniper also offers amazing customer support so it's a great deal.

**johnwill** · 03-04-2009, 05:24 PM

You guys are all assuming that there is Internet access in the remote building, but I didn't see that stated anywhere.

kielu84 · 03-04-2009, 08:53 PM

Yes there is internet access, we have T1.

All 30k does not need to be used.

prestons · 03-04-2009, 09:25 PM

I have to agree with johnwill, the wireless would be the most cost effective, reliable solution to the issue. The VPN solution again would work well, but there is not much bandwidth connecting the two buildings that way. The fiber solution would have virtually all the bandwidth you could ever want, but the cost of implementing something like that can get pretty expensive. However, just to throw out one more option into the pool...
Since there is a T1 at the remote building i'm going to assume that there is also a T1 at the main building. Which means there is an ISP making a pretty penny off of the company. Why not inquire with this ISP about getting a Point-to-Point (P2P) connection to interconnect the buildings? Many times ISP's will cut companies a break on price when you have multiple lines at multiple locations etc.
Advantages include: guaranteed uptime, full T1 1.544Mb/s connecting the two buildings, usually cheaper than having a full T1 at two locations (T1 lines start around $600/month here), upkeep, equipment, & maintenance is taken care of by the ISP.
Disadvantages include: cost - p2p connections in the areas i work start at $750/month, only T1 1.544Mb/s bandwidth (unlike fiber or wireless THIS would be much less bandwidth), you still need to have an internet connection somewhere to pipe over the p2p connection.
Just another option for you to consider. Hope this helps!

**johnwill** · 03-05-2009, 02:09 PM

I'd think he'd be happier with wireless than a 1.5mbit connection.

There's also no monthly charge at all...

02-26-2009, 12:34 AM	#1 (permalink)
kielu84 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 4 OS: xp	extending network outdors to ajacent building hi, I am a student and i am designing a network for a small business. I have to extend the network from the main building to another building approx 750' from the main building. The building I have to extend the network to has poured concrete walls. What kind of device should I use to do so? Also, do they make outdoor wireless adapters. I think that the concrete would definitely attenuate the signal through the walls.

02-27-2009, 08:53 AM	#2 (permalink)
johnwill Manager, Networking Forums Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: S.E. Pennsylvania, US Posts: 41,921 OS: Windows 7, XP-Pro, Vista, Linux Blog Entries: 1	Re: extending network outdors to ajacent building I'd use something like these [HAO14SD] Outdoor Hi-Gain 14dBi Directional Antenna Kit on each end connected to a wireless bridge. You're right, the concrete walls would be a real issue. Note that you'll still need line of sight between the two antennas, if there are obstructions you will probably still have issues. __________________ If TSF has helped you, Tell us about it! or Donate to help keep the site up! Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience

02-28-2009, 11:45 AM	#3 (permalink)
Ptroy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 62 OS: Vista Biz(x86), Server 2003 Enterprise(x86), XP Pro(x86), XP Home(x86)	Re: extending network outdors to ajacent building You could run Fiber optics cabling, but it would be more expensive. It would probably be the way to go though. If setup right it would be more secure and you would probably have a stronger signal. Or like what was said in the previous post.

03-01-2009, 08:07 AM	#4 (permalink)
johnwill Manager, Networking Forums Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: S.E. Pennsylvania, US Posts: 41,921 OS: Windows 7, XP-Pro, Vista, Linux Blog Entries: 1	Re: extending network outdors to ajacent building Well, I agree that fiber is the best way to solve this, I kinda' figured that the cost would put him off. The fiber isn't that expensive, but the trench would be. __________________ If TSF has helped you, Tell us about it! or Donate to help keep the site up! Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience

03-02-2009, 08:12 PM	#5 (permalink)
kielu84 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 4 OS: xp	Re: extending network outdors to ajacent building The fact that there is only one computer in the building I'm extending the network to. Also, the budget is $30k. That includes labor, wiring the main building, server, software, security, extending the network to that adjacent building.

03-02-2009, 10:20 PM	#6 (permalink)
ThePistonDoctor Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 58 OS: XP	Re: extending network outdors to ajacent building For only 750' you should be able to get away with fiber with that kinda budget. I wish I had a budget of 30K lol

03-03-2009, 06:46 AM	#7 (permalink)
johnwill Manager, Networking Forums Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: S.E. Pennsylvania, US Posts: 41,921 OS: Windows 7, XP-Pro, Vista, Linux Blog Entries: 1	Re: extending network outdors to ajacent building Well, the solution I presented should weigh in at less than $1000 for everything, and if you have line-of-sight, it should work just fine. __________________ If TSF has helped you, Tell us about it! or Donate to help keep the site up! Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience

03-03-2009, 08:09 AM	#8 (permalink)
kielu84 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 4 OS: xp	Re: extending network outdors to ajacent building I like your idea johnwill. I think its the cheapest and most inexpensive way to go about this. If I run fiber I also have to buy the equipment for it too, not to mention the labor to tear up the parking lot, ect.

03-03-2009, 06:17 PM	#9 (permalink)
ThePistonDoctor Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 58 OS: XP	Re: extending network outdors to ajacent building Very true. Also consider security. You are putting everything on your network out into the space between the two buildings, so make sure that it is protected.

03-03-2009, 06:56 PM	#10 (permalink)
Soulblazer91 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Washington Posts: 60 OS: xp	Re: extending network outdors to ajacent building another very simple solution is to create a vpn for the outside client. A very simple program called "Hamachi" would solve this perfectly if the user has internet connection. You could create an account on a computer already inside the network and another on the outside computer. When you add the outside computer to the new "Hamachi" network you can remotely connect to the computer inside the network and have access to everything in the business. this is very secure as the connection is encrypted with an md5 hash. it is also freeware and is quite amazing in my opinion. with the money you would be saving you could even buy another computer to act as a terminal server to run hamachi on. good luck on the project buddy.

03-03-2009, 06:58 PM	#11 (permalink)
Soulblazer91 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Washington Posts: 60 OS: xp	Re: extending network outdors to ajacent building is it important you use all the money? does it carry over to the yearly budget? otherwise look into an actual vpn hardware device such as Juniper Network's SA700 SSL VPN. This method allows you to integrate all other devices in your network. Juniper also offers amazing customer support so it's a great deal.

03-04-2009, 05:24 PM	#12 (permalink)
johnwill Manager, Networking Forums Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: S.E. Pennsylvania, US Posts: 41,921 OS: Windows 7, XP-Pro, Vista, Linux Blog Entries: 1	Re: extending network outdors to ajacent building You guys are all assuming that there is Internet access in the remote building, but I didn't see that stated anywhere. __________________ If TSF has helped you, Tell us about it! or Donate to help keep the site up! Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience

03-04-2009, 08:53 PM	#13 (permalink)
kielu84 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 4 OS: xp	Re: extending network outdors to ajacent building Yes there is internet access, we have T1. All 30k does not need to be used.

03-04-2009, 09:25 PM	#14 (permalink)
prestons Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: West Virginia Posts: 79 OS: Xp Pro Sp2 & MacOS X My System	Re: extending network outdors to ajacent building I have to agree with johnwill, the wireless would be the most cost effective, reliable solution to the issue. The VPN solution again would work well, but there is not much bandwidth connecting the two buildings that way. The fiber solution would have virtually all the bandwidth you could ever want, but the cost of implementing something like that can get pretty expensive. However, just to throw out one more option into the pool... Since there is a T1 at the remote building i'm going to assume that there is also a T1 at the main building. Which means there is an ISP making a pretty penny off of the company. Why not inquire with this ISP about getting a Point-to-Point (P2P) connection to interconnect the buildings? Many times ISP's will cut companies a break on price when you have multiple lines at multiple locations etc. Advantages include: guaranteed uptime, full T1 1.544Mb/s connecting the two buildings, usually cheaper than having a full T1 at two locations (T1 lines start around $600/month here), upkeep, equipment, & maintenance is taken care of by the ISP. Disadvantages include: cost - p2p connections in the areas i work start at $750/month, only T1 1.544Mb/s bandwidth (unlike fiber or wireless THIS would be much less bandwidth), you still need to have an internet connection somewhere to pipe over the p2p connection. Just another option for you to consider. Hope this helps! __________________ "The failure rate of hard drives is 100% — so it's not if your hard drive will fail, but when..."

03-05-2009, 02:09 PM	#15 (permalink)
johnwill Manager, Networking Forums Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: S.E. Pennsylvania, US Posts: 41,921 OS: Windows 7, XP-Pro, Vista, Linux Blog Entries: 1	Re: extending network outdors to ajacent building I'd think he'd be happier with wireless than a 1.5mbit connection. There's also no monthly charge at all... __________________ If TSF has helped you, Tell us about it! or Donate to help keep the site up! Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience