1/2 a network set up, but clueless about debugging

[hereami]

Hi!
I don't know if it's presumptuous to ask you guys for this much help or not - let me know if it is and I won't post :). I work at a small relief and development agency in SE Asia. I'm a teacher by profession, but because I was the only staff member to know the difference between firewall and fire escape, I have somehow inherited the job of network administrator for the 6 computers at the office.

Some expert came in awhile back and set up a wireless router for us. He also told us to switch to ADSL, as the plan is better than the broadband satellite we were on before. Then he left. We had the ADSL guys come, but they don't know anything about networks (no one does in this country, that I've been able to find; Laos is new to all of this). So this is my current situation:

6 computers connected to each other by LAN via a large box with lots of ports (not sure what that one's called - see how clueless I am); a Linksys wireless router connected to the same box; a LAN ADSL router connected to the box as well; a laser printer not really connected to anything (it was connected to a small box that I think was the print server, but when the network was switched to ADSL everything went haywire - most computers couldn't find the internet, most couldn't print; I disconnected it and now everything connects to the Internet). Two of the computers had email set up through Outlook Express, but now they can only receive email - not send. They get a message saying there's an IP conflict.

I know nothing about networking (that should be clear from the notes above) or IP addresses. I don't even know what needs to be plugged into what. I'm trying hard to find someone here who knows what they're doing, but have had no luck at all so far. If there's any kind-hearted expert who could give me some pointers all of us at the office would be grateful!

[terbolee]

Greetings from a fellow teacher!

Can I assume that the broadband satellite is now no longer available?

Based on what you wrote, it seems that your laser printer is wireless via the small box to the Linksys wireless router. You wrote "a laser printer not really connected to anything"

While others here might help to clarify this, IP conflict seems to indicate that "two" DHCP servers may be on your network. Your Linksys wireless router and your LAN ADSL routers may be both offering DHCP services...this is where your computers get their IP addresses from.

Since you have 6 computers, your LAN ADSL router may not have enough ports. Therefore, you will still need your "large box with lots of ports"...called a switch.

You wrote "I disconnected it and now everything connects to the Internet"...can I assume that you disconnected the laser printer? I'm assuming that you did not disconnect the ADSL router since this cannot happen where you wrote "and now everything connects to the Internet"

[johnwill]

Please supply the following info, exact make and models of the equipment please.

The name of your ISP and country of residence.
Make/model of the broadband modem. If dial-up, please specify.
Make/model of the router (if any).
Connection type, wired, wireless.
If wireless, encryption used, (WEP, WPA, WPA2, etc.)
Make/model of network card or wireless adapter.
Make/model of your computer (motherboard if home-built).
Version and patch level of Windows on all affected machines, i.e. XP-Home (or XP-Pro), SP2, Vista, etc.

Also, please give an exact description of your problem symptoms, including the exact text of any error messages.

I need to know exactly how all this equipment is cabled together too. Identify what ports on each box are connected to what device. We need to try to develop some sort of network map so we can figure out how to get it all working.

[hereami]

Thanks for the replies. Hope the following information helps:
Country of residence: Laos
ISP: Lao Telecom
Internet connection: ADSL 2
Modem: none that I know of (I think the router functions as that?)
Switch: D-Link; model # DES-1024D
ADSL router: TP-Link; model # TD-8840
Wireless router: Linksys; model # WRT-54G; uses WPA encryption
Print server: D-Link; model # DP-303
Printer: HP Laserjet 1200 with a serial cable and a USB cable attached
Also, we have a Internet broadband router and a broadband modem we used to use to connect to satellite broadband, but those aren't connected.


There are six computers we need to connect by LAN, plus we need the wireless running so teachers can access the network (internet, file sharing, and printing) with their laptops.
Here are the specs on the computers:
1. Acer Veriton 1000; Win XP Pro; SP 2
Network adapters: Intel 82566DM Gigabit, Ralink Turbo Wireless LAN card
2. Same as #1
3. Same as #1
4. Weisfeng? (some Chinese name); AMD Athlon XP 1700+ 1.10 Ghz (don't know how to find the motherboard name); Win XP Pro; SP 2
Network card: Realtek RTL8139 Famiy PCI Fast Ethernet NIC
5. Acer Aspire SA85; Win XP Pro; SP 2
Network card: Realtek RTL8169/8110 Family Gigabit Ethernet NIC
6. Similar to 5

Here's what we're trying to get: a network that allows the 6 office computers and 2-5 laptops to see each other, access a shared ADSL2 internet connection, and print to a shared computer.

Currently, the six computers connect to the Internet, but none of them print via the network (I hooked the printer up to one computer so we have printing capabilities via local printer, but only on that computer.) The wireless is not working, and I finally disconnected it. In addition, two of the office computers no longer send email via Outlook (they still receive it), possibly related to the fact that the email addresses are from our previous ISP, satellite broadband (although our account is still active there) – it must just need some sort of reconfiguration, but I don't know how to do that either. At one point the printer was connected to the Internet broadband router and then on to the network, but half the computers wouldn't access the Internet and some of them wouldn't print. When I just disconnected the printer and broadband router, they all at least went online. The phone line downstairs has very poor quality as well, since connecting to ADSL – I've been trying to reach the technician all day but haven't been able to yet.

Here's the physical configuration at the moment:
All of the computers are connected to various ports on the D-Link switch. The TP-Link ADSL router is also connected to the switch (the cable is in port 3 on the router and connects to port 17 on the switch). The ADSL line connects to the router via the phone jack. The print server and wireless router are not connected at all, but they need to be.

I hope all that helps. Thanks for your help!

[ajvoegtl]

I'm more of a cable man myself.

Not fully understanding (although you drew a pretty good mental picture with all the details), I'd say connect your modem (or whatever your point of access to the web is) to the wireless router. Now, assuming it's a wireless ROUTER and not an ACCESS POINT it should have more than 1 port (If it's an access point, it will be connected like another host). You mentioned you had a rather large switch since you are hooked up on port 17 of it. Run a cable from the wireless router to the switch, then hook everything up to the switch. Be sure there are no DHCP or subnet mask issues on any of the machines. This should allow access for everyone.

*If* the situation is as I stated, it should look like this: Modem -> Wireless Router -> Switch -> Wired Hosts.

If it's a wireless access point it should look something like this Modem -> Router(Wireless access point/print server directly connected) -> Switch -> Wired Hosts.

If any of my assumptions are incorrect, please tell me so.

[hereami]

It is a wireless router, apparently, since that's what it says on top. :) I'm afraid I'm going to need a little more detailed info, though. I'm not sure what "DHCP or subnet mask" even refer to, much less if they have issues. Plus, I'm not sure what to hook the ADSL router up to. And what about the print server - where does that go? Do I need to turn all this stuff off before plugging / unplugging it?

[ajvoegtl]

Sorry about the late response, read the whole post before doing anything, as some of this may be unnecessary. As Terbolee said, there could be 2 DHCP servers. A DHCP server is responsible for assigning each computer a unique IP address. A DHCP server is used if you do not enter your settings manually. To collect more information, please go to start and select Run. In the box, type cmd, and when the window opens up, type ipconfig /all just like that, and please post the results. Also, I'd like to verify if you ADSL router is working as your modem. A modem usually has very few ethernet ports (1 or 2), and a router usually 4 to 5. The print server is treated like a host (computer), and you'll plug it into the switch.Also, all machines are currently able to connect to the internet, correct?

On each machine, go to start, My Computer, My Network Places, click on View Network Connections. Right click on the connection you're using (it will most likely say Local Area Connection), and go to Properties. It should show you a little table, and one of the entries should be Internet Protocol (TCP/IP). Select Internet Protocol, then hit the properties button. In both tabs, be sure everything is set to automatic.

If it's a simple matter of file/printer sharing, you should be able to remedy this real quickly. Do this first step on each computer while connected to the network. As stated above, go the the My Network Places folder. Click on Set up a Home or Small Office Network. Run through the Network Setup Wizard, when it asks for a connection method, select your second option (This computer connects to the Internet through a residential gateway or through another computer on my network.), take note of the workgroup name as they all need to be the same, and be sure to turn on file and printer sharing on each machine. At the last page it will ask you if you want to make a disk for your network settings, select Just finish.

I recommend, if you want to share files, leaving 1 computer on and using it as a file server. To do so, find one you think is appropriate (and has a big enough hard drive to hold all the files you'll put on it), and you can either share the whole hard drive (NOT RECOMMENDED), or you can make a folder anywhere, right click on it, go to properties, then the sharing tab. Click Share this folder, and Allow Network Users to change files... etc. To get to your new file server on another computer, you would just have to go the the My Network Places folder.

When the Printer is hooked up to a computer, or the printserver is hooked up the switch, you should simply just have to go to Start, Control Pannel, be sure you're in the classic mode (you can tell this if in the top left corner it says switch to category mode), go to printers and faxes, then click add a printer. Just hit browse for a printer, unless you know the location and name assigned to it. Often times though, this whole process is unnecessary as printer servers can be "plug and play."

If any of this doesn't make sense, please tell me so, and of coarse, if the problems persist.

[hereami]

Here's the results of running ipconf /all:

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : ArdaAcer03
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel(R) 82566DM Gigabit Network Con
nection
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-19-21-D9-6D-C0
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.13
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 202.137.129.1
202.137.129.3
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:26:
36 AM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Thursday, September 27, 2007 10:26:3
6 AM


Also, the ADSL router is functioning as the modem, apparently. It has four ports, only one of which is being used to connect to the switch.

All computers do access the internet.

For some reason, when I put the DNS address to automatic, it doesn't work. I have to input the specific DNS address given me by the ADSL guy who set this thing up. Seems to me that might be a problem for the laptops on our system if they ever want to access another network, right?

Also, I've run the Set up Home or Office Network wizard several times on the computers, and although it runs successfully I still can never "see" the other computers on my network, and can't "see" any printers attached to any of them.

Any ideas?

Also, where do I connect the wireless router - to the switch or to another port on the ADSL router/modem?

Thanks again for all your help!

[hereami]

small addition to my last post - the reason I couldn't see the other computers on my network appears to have been my Comodo firewall. I defined a trusted zone (their name for a network, apparently) and now can see the other computers. But I still can't see the computer which is attached to the print server (which is then attached to the switch).

[ajvoegtl]

Ah, those pesky little firewalls.

Due to the fact that you have 2 routers, you would need a special cable (a crossover cable) to directly connect them. You *should* be able to connect the wireless router to the switch, making it a wireless access point, but I believe that may require some subnetting (someone correct me please if I'm wrong). So go ahead and try to hook the wireless router up to the switch, or a free port in the ADSL router. Two routers on the same network with no subnetting doesn't seem too friendly to me though...

As far as the printer situation goes, if it's hooked up to an actual computer, you don't need the printserver (little box), but if you use the little box, just plug it into the switch like it was another computer. If you have it all hooked up properly already, check that machine for its own firewall settings (Windows Security can be found in the control panel, and look in the system tray for any icons for third party firewalls. I.E. Norton Internet Security). Also, if it's connected to a computer, be sure you have sharing enabled.

As far as the DNS, it is a little strange that the automatic settings don't work, but all the laptops would have to do to connect to another server would be switch it to the automatic settings, and back to reconnect to your network.

I can tell you more as soon as someone gets back to me about the ADSL router and wireless router situation. Sorry I couldn't be more help, and good luck.

[ajvoegtl]

Bump for info... the two routers on the same network would require subnetting correct? Anyone?

[terbolee]

Originally Posted by ajvoegtl

Bump for info... the two routers on the same network would require subnetting correct? Anyone?

I admire your effort to help Hereami! I've been away for a while. As you mentioned, two or more routers CAN be on the same network but that would make it more difficult for Hearami. Their small network simply does not warrant the complexities of HSRP, etc...associated with multiple routers on the same network.

Reason I'm posting to you is because you're now more familiar with Hearami's situation...so I'll try and back you up, okay?

Seems that Hearami is a lot more computer literate than what we read on the first post. We just need to ensure that we can optimize that knowledge to a good solution.

Having read the posts so far, I recommend the following:

1. Instead of having to struggle with two separate routers, wireless & wired, ask Hearami to contact their ISP and order an integrated router that provides BOTH wired & wireless ADSL router in the SAME box.
2. This ensures a single DHCP operation for all of their devices.

Hope this helps.

[ajvoegtl]

Thanks for responding, and putting in your two cents. I was starting to wonder there... That would be the simplest way to go about doing things, and would be a relatively cheap fix. Good luck with the network, and keep us updated please.

[hereami]

Hey guys, thanks for all the help.

After a quite a few hours and some help from a local computer office, we were able to get printer on the network using the print server. All computers can access the internet via LAN, and all of them print just fine. And, the IP and DNS settings are now automatic and seem to be working fine. ADSL2 router IP is 192.168.1.1 and print server IP is 192.168.1.25. I now even know what that means. :) So we're making progress.

One big problem left - wireless. Unfortunately I can't get my ISP to provide a wired / wireless combo router. They couldn't even provide the network router. This is Laos - computer technology is coming along, but knowledge and availability of parts is tough to come by. I had to by the original router myself at a computer shop, and I didn't see the combo one there.

In the past, the wireless router did work when on this same network along with a cable broadband ISP. Someone else set it up, then returned to Singapore and I can't get in touch with him. So I don't know what he did! :)

First question - do I plug the wireless into the switch or into a LAN port on the ADSL router?

Second question - does everything on the network needed to be shut down before I plug the wireless router in?

Third question - Do I need to re-run the setup CD from the wireless router, and if so should it be on a computer directly connected to the router or is via the switch okay?

Fourth question - What is DNS, anyway?

Thanks for all your help!

[ajvoegtl]

I'm glad to see everythings coming together and you're learning more about your network.

As far as both the routers go, unless you can find a router that will function as both wireless and your modem, you will need to subnet them. I'm going to encourage you to keep searching for the proper equipment if it's reasonable, as if you must subnet things are going to become a lot more complicated.

It doesn't really matter too much if things are plugged in or not, but if you find you have problems connecting, generally a restart of the router or modem (in this case, yours is both) will do the trick.

With wireless routers, you don't often *need* to use the setup CD, but it can make things simpler if you don't want to use the web browser setup (typing 192.168.1.1 into your browser). The most important thing is to be sure the proper hardware, software, and drivers are installed on the wireless computers.

For the long, drawn out explaination of a DNS, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_name_system. But quite simply, it's going to translate websites from their name (techsupportforum.com) to their IP (72.52.136.82) for your computer. This allows your computer to correctly connect to the site you're trying to.

When you decide what you want to do, get back to me. If you can find an ADSL router with wireless connectivity, I'd recommend you buy it. If you'd like to go on with the subnetting option tell me and we'll get started. If you're unable to find one anywhere around you, try the internet, and hopefully somewhere will deliver to you. Possible sources may be netgear.com, dlink.com, and linksys.com. And of coarse, there is always your good friend google. Good luck with all this, your colleagues should give you a pat on the back for all the work you're doing with this.

[hereami]

Hey, thanks for the opinion.
The other roadblock I'm facing is $$. The wireless router was donated or we wouldn't even have one now, and our director wouldn't be too keen on forking out more money (we've already bought the ADSL router and the print server, and I'm trying to get him to pay for some software we really need). We're a relief and development agency, so we're used to operating on a shoestring. :) But we've got it good compared to many, so I'm not complaining!

However, it's unlikely right now I can buy more equipment. The wireless used to work here, back when we were connected to a cable (or satellite?) broadband ISP's modem. Why would now be different?

Thanks again for your time!