Wirless distro system and access points-- how?

earthspace · 03-18-2007, 12:03 PM

Heya:

a friend acrosss the street has a wireless router sending out an internet connection unsecured, and i want to use a router at my place to capture that signal and send it on to my comp with wireless card installed. the loc of the comp prevents the card from getting a good signal, therefore i'd like to set up the wireless distribtion system/access point to send the sig on.

belkin says it's router can only be used with other belkin products to set up a WDS using one as router and the other router1000000000000000000000000(s) as access points, and the access point router must be matched with some kinda extension router....

can this be done with two regular routers, and of different brands?

thanks for the thots.

**TheMatt** · 03-18-2007, 04:52 PM

Hi,

We can only help you do this if you have your friends permission do use his connection. Do you?

Tumbleweed36 · 03-18-2007, 04:57 PM

Hi,

I only ask, but isn't that kind of like "stealing" a signal that you don't pay for?

earthspace · 03-18-2007, 10:35 PM

Yes, we agree to share the connection. There's no "theft"....

And since this house is large, and i have a cupple of machines and routers, it's something i want to learn how to do anyway....

**JamesO** · 03-19-2007, 05:03 AM

Although you may have permission to share this connection, it is probably against the TOS (Terms Of Service) if the ISP providing the service.

That being said, we here at TSF has no responsibility for what you do in the end.

As for your question regarding if redistribution of a wireless network technically feasible, the answer is yes.

As you mentioned WDS is one way, however, it is a bit more involve and will have some negative impact on wireless speed in the end. Same holds true for "wireless repeaters" that some vendors offer.

The cleanest approach is to add a wireless bridge. A wireless bridge captures the wireless network and converts it to a wired network. Some wireless routers (Belkin is one that comes to mind) do offer a bridged mode within the configuration. However, only the device on the distant end of the network would be configured to "bridge" not the primary router or WAP. Once the network is converted back to a wired connection, you an then distribute the wired connection as you would normally with CAT5 cable, switches, powerline Ethernet adapters, etc. This wired connection could then be connected back up to another router, WAP or wireless router. Just keep in mind if another router is used, all connections with be functioning with double NAT (Network Address Translation) which may have some negative effect on some connections and/or protocols. Also keep in mind in a network that is "bridged" without an additional router will see all traffic from both ends of the network as well certain activities on one end of the bridge may have a global impact on the full network. So one needs to use a lot of caution when dealing with bridged networks.

JamesO

johnwill · 03-21-2007, 11:50 AM

Actually, I prefer the direct approach and not adding a bridge. Since a bridge is a store and forward affair, it impacts the throughput and response time. However, a stronger signal, using any one or a multiple of the following products won't impact throughput or signal response time.

Hawking Tech has a number of products that will help you increase your wireless range. The root page is Hawking Hi-Gain™ WiFi Range Extending Products.

Some of the more interesting products are this Hawking [HSB2] Hi-Gain WiFi Signal Booster, which can be used on either end of a wireless connection to boost the signal power.

Another way to increase your signal strength is by the use of hi-gain antennas. You can choose from omni-directional or directional models, here are a couple of examples.

Hawking [HAI7SIP] Hi-Gain 7dBi Omni-Directional Antenna

Hawking [HAI15SC] Hi-Gain 15dBi Corner Antenna

earthspace · 03-22-2007, 12:53 PM

thanks for the equipment information..... interesting.

James.o, i get the bridge in concept, can yu provide specfics about hook-up? or some good instructional links?

thanks

**JamesO** · 03-22-2007, 01:27 PM

You still may need/want an antenna with a bridge?

The issue is if you have a bridge, then there is only 1 wireless connection to the Wireless Access Point, where if you have multiple machines on your proemise, then you would need multiple antennas and possibly have multiple issues trying to get all the hardware on your premise connected directly. Whereas if you have a router on your premise, all your equipment would connect to your switch or router, then to the bridge, then to the primary network.

You either need a wireless bridge, a router that has a bridge option (many Belkin routers have this option) or a router with 3rd party firmware that will function as a bridge.

Then you either bridge the network as a single network, or you connect the bridge Ethernet connection to an additional wired/wireless router with a different subnet. This causes traffic on your premises to be double NATed, however, this does "somewhat" protect the 2 networks from each other. You would configure the wired/wireless router on your premise with a static WAN address which is the default gateway of the other network (main router IP address).

I am sure you will get a number of comments, ideas, concerns on this configuration. It does work, and there may be drawbacks with this configuration. But I have successfully had to connect networks in this way and have had had no issues with VOIP, VPN's and other functions set up this way.

Maybe not the cleanest approach, but sometimes you have to work with what you have!

JamesO

**TheMatt** · 03-23-2007, 02:15 PM

A wireless repeater is also a good option:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833995002

earthspace · 04-13-2007, 10:15 AM

thanks for trying, jameso....

as a geneal explanation, i can kinda visualize it.

i'm stuck on the specifics: what are the various pieces and parts needed, and how fizically are they hooked up? when yu say that a bridge allows for only one wireless connection, are yu refering to one antenna and one signal?

my sceme: i have a machine upotairs, one dowstairs, and a third machine at which i,ve installed a wireless router beeming an internet connection. The other two machines do not recieve the signals with internal wireless cards. I have motarolla and a belkin wireless routers currently unused, and i was thinking that those routers cood be hooked up to the other two machines to function as exterior wireless cards, in effect. The bridge, yes? ow fizically is that done? Any good diagrams that mite help?

tanks.

03-18-2007, 12:03 PM	#1 (permalink)
earthspace Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 9 OS: xp and linux	Wirless distro system and access points-- how? Heya: a friend acrosss the street has a wireless router sending out an internet connection unsecured, and i want to use a router at my place to capture that signal and send it on to my comp with wireless card installed. the loc of the comp prevents the card from getting a good signal, therefore i'd like to set up the wireless distribtion system/access point to send the sig on. belkin says it's router can only be used with other belkin products to set up a WDS using one as router and the other router1000000000000000000000000(s) as access points, and the access point router must be matched with some kinda extension router.... can this be done with two regular routers, and of different brands? thanks for the thots.

03-18-2007, 04:52 PM	#2 (permalink)
TheMatt Moderator, Hardware Team Join Date: May 2006 Location: Boston Posts: 13,693 OS: Win 3.1, 98, NT 4.0, XP Debian 4.0, Kubuntu 6.06 My System Blog Entries: 3	Re: Wirless distro system and access points-- how? Hi, We can only help you do this if you have your friends permission do use his connection. Do you? __________________ - Matt M - KB1OSC - Folding@Home 85015 If TSF has helped you, please consider donating. If I have stopped responding to a thread, feel free to send me a PM with a link to the thread. It is advisable to subscribe to threads so you will receive updates when replies are posted. You can subscribe to threads from the "Thread Tools" Menu. »Memtest86 »Prime95 »UBCD »SpeedFan »NHC Personal »Everest »Sandra »PC Wizard »RivaTuner »ATi Tool Click here for Useful Articles and Guides

03-18-2007, 04:57 PM	#3 (permalink)
Tumbleweed36 Asst Manager Hardware Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA Posts: 14,879 OS: XP Professional	Re: Wirless distro system and access points-- how? Hi, I only ask, but isn't that kind of like "stealing" a signal that you don't pay for? __________________ ----------

03-18-2007, 10:35 PM	#4 (permalink)
earthspace Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 9 OS: xp and linux	Re: Wirless distro system and access points-- how? Yes, we agree to share the connection. There's no "theft".... And since this house is large, and i have a cupple of machines and routers, it's something i want to learn how to do anyway....

03-19-2007, 05:03 AM	#5 (permalink)
JamesO Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Fairfax, VA USA Posts: 2,289 OS: 98SE, W2k Pro, XP Pro	Re: Wirless distro system and access points-- how? Although you may have permission to share this connection, it is probably against the TOS (Terms Of Service) if the ISP providing the service. That being said, we here at TSF has no responsibility for what you do in the end. As for your question regarding if redistribution of a wireless network technically feasible, the answer is yes. As you mentioned WDS is one way, however, it is a bit more involve and will have some negative impact on wireless speed in the end. Same holds true for "wireless repeaters" that some vendors offer. The cleanest approach is to add a wireless bridge. A wireless bridge captures the wireless network and converts it to a wired network. Some wireless routers (Belkin is one that comes to mind) do offer a bridged mode within the configuration. However, only the device on the distant end of the network would be configured to "bridge" not the primary router or WAP. Once the network is converted back to a wired connection, you an then distribute the wired connection as you would normally with CAT5 cable, switches, powerline Ethernet adapters, etc. This wired connection could then be connected back up to another router, WAP or wireless router. Just keep in mind if another router is used, all connections with be functioning with double NAT (Network Address Translation) which may have some negative effect on some connections and/or protocols. Also keep in mind in a network that is "bridged" without an additional router will see all traffic from both ends of the network as well certain activities on one end of the bridge may have a global impact on the full network. So one needs to use a lot of caution when dealing with bridged networks. JamesO Last edited by JamesO : 03-19-2007 at 05:05 AM.

03-21-2007, 11:50 AM	#6 (permalink)
johnwill Manager, Networking Forums Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: S.E. Pennsylvania, US Posts: 32,581 OS: XP-Pro, Vista, Linux Blog Entries: 1	Re: Wirless distro system and access points-- how? Actually, I prefer the direct approach and not adding a bridge. Since a bridge is a store and forward affair, it impacts the throughput and response time. However, a stronger signal, using any one or a multiple of the following products won't impact throughput or signal response time. Hawking Tech has a number of products that will help you increase your wireless range. The root page is Hawking Hi-Gain™ WiFi Range Extending Products. Some of the more interesting products are this Hawking [HSB2] Hi-Gain WiFi Signal Booster, which can be used on either end of a wireless connection to boost the signal power. Another way to increase your signal strength is by the use of hi-gain antennas. You can choose from omni-directional or directional models, here are a couple of examples. Hawking [HAI7SIP] Hi-Gain 7dBi Omni-Directional Antenna Hawking [HAI15SC] Hi-Gain 15dBi Corner Antenna __________________ If TSF has helped you, Tell us about it! or Donate to help keep the site up! Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience

03-22-2007, 12:53 PM	#7 (permalink)
earthspace Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 9 OS: xp and linux	Re: Wirless distro system and access points-- how? thanks for the equipment information..... interesting. James.o, i get the bridge in concept, can yu provide specfics about hook-up? or some good instructional links? thanks

03-22-2007, 01:27 PM	#8 (permalink)
JamesO Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Fairfax, VA USA Posts: 2,289 OS: 98SE, W2k Pro, XP Pro	Re: Wirless distro system and access points-- how? You still may need/want an antenna with a bridge? The issue is if you have a bridge, then there is only 1 wireless connection to the Wireless Access Point, where if you have multiple machines on your proemise, then you would need multiple antennas and possibly have multiple issues trying to get all the hardware on your premise connected directly. Whereas if you have a router on your premise, all your equipment would connect to your switch or router, then to the bridge, then to the primary network. You either need a wireless bridge, a router that has a bridge option (many Belkin routers have this option) or a router with 3rd party firmware that will function as a bridge. Then you either bridge the network as a single network, or you connect the bridge Ethernet connection to an additional wired/wireless router with a different subnet. This causes traffic on your premises to be double NATed, however, this does "somewhat" protect the 2 networks from each other. You would configure the wired/wireless router on your premise with a static WAN address which is the default gateway of the other network (main router IP address). I am sure you will get a number of comments, ideas, concerns on this configuration. It does work, and there may be drawbacks with this configuration. But I have successfully had to connect networks in this way and have had had no issues with VOIP, VPN's and other functions set up this way. Maybe not the cleanest approach, but sometimes you have to work with what you have! JamesO

03-23-2007, 02:15 PM	#9 (permalink)
TheMatt Moderator, Hardware Team Join Date: May 2006 Location: Boston Posts: 13,693 OS: Win 3.1, 98, NT 4.0, XP Debian 4.0, Kubuntu 6.06 My System Blog Entries: 3	Re: Wirless distro system and access points-- how? A wireless repeater is also a good option: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833995002 __________________ - Matt M - KB1OSC - Folding@Home 85015 If TSF has helped you, please consider donating. If I have stopped responding to a thread, feel free to send me a PM with a link to the thread. It is advisable to subscribe to threads so you will receive updates when replies are posted. You can subscribe to threads from the "Thread Tools" Menu. »Memtest86 »Prime95 »UBCD »SpeedFan »NHC Personal »Everest »Sandra »PC Wizard »RivaTuner »ATi Tool Click here for Useful Articles and Guides

04-13-2007, 10:15 AM	#10 (permalink)
earthspace Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 9 OS: xp and linux	Re: Wirless distro system and access points-- how? thanks for trying, jameso.... as a geneal explanation, i can kinda visualize it. i'm stuck on the specifics: what are the various pieces and parts needed, and how fizically are they hooked up? when yu say that a bridge allows for only one wireless connection, are yu refering to one antenna and one signal? my sceme: i have a machine upotairs, one dowstairs, and a third machine at which i,ve installed a wireless router beeming an internet connection. The other two machines do not recieve the signals with internal wireless cards. I have motarolla and a belkin wireless routers currently unused, and i was thinking that those routers cood be hooked up to the other two machines to function as exterior wireless cards, in effect. The bridge, yes? ow fizically is that done? Any good diagrams that mite help? tanks.