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06-02-2009, 06:00 AM
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#1 (permalink) |
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 20
OS: Windows XP
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Taking ownership of files on remote computer
Hallo everyone!
I am running a network on two computers using Windows XP and basically everything works fine. In order to be able to access my backup data on computer B from computer A, I created a limited user account with identical user names and passwords on both machines. I set the permissions in such a way that I can theoretically take ownership of files on computer B from computer A, but when I try to do so, I get the following error message: "This security ID may not be assigned as the owner of this object." What can I do about it? I can take ownership on the remote computer when I am logged in as administrator, but from my limited user account, it only works if I log in locally on computer B. Does it have to do with the SID of my limited user account not being identical on both machines? Best regards, Matthias |
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06-02-2009, 06:35 AM
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#2 (permalink) |
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Manager, Networking Forums
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: S.E. Pennsylvania, US
Posts: 41,580
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Re: Taking ownership of files on remote computer
You can't change file permissions with a limited account.
__________________
If TSF has helped you, Tell us about it! or Donate to help keep the site up! Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience |
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06-02-2009, 06:44 PM
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#3 (permalink) |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 240
OS: LAN Herder
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Re: Taking ownership of files on remote computer
On an XP Pro box, a limited account can change permissions of a file that is owned by that limited account user. Just tried that on a file, and it took that change.
However, SID's are another matter entirely. The SID is the numeric equivalent of the user name (the S-1-stuff-morestuff-yetmorestuff). SIDs are generated by the operating system and are intended to be universally unique. Deleting a user, and then recreating the account with the same user name will produce a different SID, and the recreated account is not able to access the old account. Only in a domain login can you guarantee the same SID across machines, as there is only one SID in the domain and the login authenticates the SID. In short, in a workgroup environment, you can't get there from here. |
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06-03-2009, 05:21 AM
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#4 (permalink) |
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 20
OS: Windows XP
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Re: Taking ownership of files on remote computer
I understand that SIDs may vary from one machine to the other, even if the user name ist the same. For example, on my primary computer, the SID for my account is
S-1-5-21-1547161642-2111687655-725345543-1003 while on my secondary computer, the SID is S-1-5-21-1202660629-117609710-682003330-1005 As you can see, the SIDs differ greatly, so having identical SIDs on both machines for my account is next to impossible. If taking over file ownership requires identical SIDs, then it cannot be done. But I doubt that this is the case, because taking over file ownership works when I am logged in as administrator. And the administrator's SID on my primary computer is S-1-5-21-1547161642-2111687655-725345543-500 while on my secondary computer it is S-1-5-21-1202660629-117609710-682003330-500 If taking over file ownership required identical SIDs on both machines, then it wouldn't work for the administrator either. But it does work for the administrator, so it cannot have to do with the SIDs not being identical. It must be some access rights problem, or maybe it has to do with some strange policy setting. Otherwise, why should I not be able to take over file ownership on a remote computer, while it does work locally? 
Last edited by Eisenbart; 06-03-2009 at 05:25 AM. |
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06-04-2009, 07:32 PM
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#5 (permalink) |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 240
OS: LAN Herder
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Re: Taking ownership of files on remote computer
Someone who knows more than me had to walk be thru this. I'm translating my understanding back into this posting, so I may not quite have it right.
 What you're describing is an autheniticated logon. In the general case, it goes like this: A user on machine A (userA), logs into machine B as userB. UserB owns and can manipulate files. UserA is impersonating userB thru the login, but userA does not own the files. They're owned by userB. In this instance, that userA is an administrator provides a different level of authentication for impersonating userB, who also happens to be an adminstrator. But it is still an impersonation. The files are still owned by userB, and not by userA. As it was explained to me. |
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06-05-2009, 06:32 AM
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#6 (permalink) |
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 20
OS: Windows XP
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Re: Taking ownership of files on remote computer
I see, thank you for that information!
 So the files on machine B are owned by userB, and if he and userA happen to be administrators, userA can transfer file ownership to userB, who he is impersonating.But what is the difference between an authenticated logon through a limited user account and an authenticated logon through an administrator's account? How can I make the taking over of file ownership work not only for administrators, but also for limited user accounts? After all, userA is impersonating userB, and userB does have the rights to take over file ownership! Last edited by Eisenbart; 06-05-2009 at 06:37 AM. |
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06-08-2009, 10:35 AM
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#7 (permalink) | |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 240
OS: LAN Herder
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Re: Taking ownership of files on remote computer
Quote:
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06-08-2009, 12:49 PM
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#8 (permalink) |
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 20
OS: Windows XP
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Re: Taking ownership of files on remote computer
Thank you, but I already know these permissions, and I have already set them accordingly. That's just the problem, everything is set the way it should, but it still does not work!
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06-08-2009, 01:19 PM
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#9 (permalink) |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 240
OS: LAN Herder
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Re: Taking ownership of files on remote computer
Hmm... Should be a two step process. First the admin grants the chosen user (userB, in the posting so far) or a group the permission to take ownership. Then, second, that user or group member has to go and explicitly take ownership.
And your second step isn't working. The thing to check next is the effective permissions. To check a file or folder, get down to the permissions list, then click the effective permissions tab, and put in userB and see what comes back. If the "take ownership" isn't checked, it won't work. Alternatively, click the Owner tab, and see if userB is listed as one of the alternatives, while logged in as userB. If the "take ownership" isn't checked in the effective permissions, then it's something that either needs to be set explicitly for that file or folder, or it's something that is inherited from a parent folder and needs to be overridden with an explicit setting. At worst, just to check how things are working, create a test file as an admin, and then set the permissions for userB to have "full control". If that doesn't work, then something is off somewhere, and it's going to be time to walk thru some screenshots of the test file permissions, or xcacls output. |
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06-09-2009, 08:06 AM
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#10 (permalink) |
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 20
OS: Windows XP
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Re: Taking ownership of files on remote computer
That effective permissions thing is an interesting idea... I just logged into my secondary computer locally and checked the effective permissions for my limited user account. The result was just as expected, my limited user account does have the "Take Ownership" access right.
Then I remotely logged into my secondary computer to do the same check. I clicked the effective permissions tab, clicked on "Choose" to select a user or group, followed by "Extended" and finally "Search now". Then I was prompted to enter the user name and password of an account on the remote computer, and when I did so, Windows kept searching and searching without ever coming to an end. (I closed the dialog after a while). Now what does this tell us? Last edited by Eisenbart; 06-09-2009 at 08:07 AM. |
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06-09-2009, 11:08 AM
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#11 (permalink) |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 240
OS: LAN Herder
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Re: Taking ownership of files on remote computer
In a workgroup environment, remote logins have to authenticate against local users and passwords. Which should happen in an eyeblink. What you've described sounds like it's trying to do a network authentication, which is a domain logon. Without a domain, that will have to go thru a very long timeout (something like 20+ minutes, I think).
One way to check that, is to run a network monitor like Wireshark (wireshark.org), on the machine the machine that you are trying to log into, to see if it is trying to do a network authentication. |
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06-10-2009, 04:39 AM
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#12 (permalink) | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 20
OS: Windows XP
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Re: Taking ownership of files on remote computer
Ok, I just installed and ran Wireshark, but as my understanding about networking is rather limited, I can only post an extract of the log file it created:
Quote:
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06-10-2009, 10:05 AM
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#13 (permalink) |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 240
OS: LAN Herder
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Re: Taking ownership of files on remote computer
Thank you. Taking that extract, and putting it into a wide screen so the lines are more readable, fairly early on there is this sequence:
Code:
220 46.034241 192.168.0.1 192.168.0.2 SMB Tree Connect AndX Request, Path: \\HAMMER\IPC$ 223 46.036847 192.168.0.1 192.168.0.2 SMB NT Create AndX Request, FID: 0x8001, Path: \srvsvc 224 46.036896 192.168.0.1 192.168.0.2 SMB Session Setup AndX Request, NTLMSSP_NEGOTIATE 227 46.039109 192.168.0.2 192.168.0.1 SMB Session Setup AndX Response, NTLMSSP_CHALLENGE, Error: STATUS_MORE_PROCESSING_REQUIRED 228 46.040155 192.168.0.1 192.168.0.2 DCERPC Bind: call_id: 1 SRVSVC V3.0 229 46.040221 192.168.0.1 192.168.0.2 SMB Session Setup AndX Request, NTLMSSP_AUTH, User: \ 237 46.042167 192.168.0.1 192.168.0.2 SMB Tree Connect AndX Request, Path: \\HAMMER\IPC The remainder of the extract looks to be some kind of tree walk or file enumeration thru a backup directory. In Wireshark, you would need to View -> Packet Details to get an look at the NTLM packets and what the contents are to see what kind of authentication is taking place, and for what user. |
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06-11-2009, 06:34 AM
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#14 (permalink) |
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 20
OS: Windows XP
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Re: Taking ownership of files on remote computer
Ok, I did the whole thing again, but this time I got a somewhat different sequence:
 The packet details are as follows: Code:
No. Time Source Destination Protocol Info
135 23.097274 192.168.0.2 192.168.0.1 TCP mxxrlogin > icslap [ACK] Seq=17761 Ack=28105 Win=64364 Len=0
Frame 135 (54 bytes on wire, 54 bytes captured)
Ethernet II, Src: Intel_1b:93:56 (00:04:23:1b:93:56), Dst: Mototech_91:23:c1 (00:50:bf:91:23:c1)
Internet Protocol, Src: 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2), Dst: 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1)
Transmission Control Protocol, Src Port: mxxrlogin (1035), Dst Port: icslap (2869), Seq: 17761, Ack: 28105, Len: 0
No. Time Source Destination Protocol Info
136 23.411193 192.168.0.1 192.168.0.2 SMB Tree Connect AndX Request, Path: \\HAMMER\IPC$
Frame 136 (136 bytes on wire, 136 bytes captured)
Ethernet II, Src: Mototech_91:23:c1 (00:50:bf:91:23:c1), Dst: Intel_1b:93:56 (00:04:23:1b:93:56)
Internet Protocol, Src: 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1), Dst: 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2)
Transmission Control Protocol, Src Port: uaiact (1470), Dst Port: microsoft-ds (445), Seq: 40, Ack: 40, Len: 82
NetBIOS Session Service
SMB (Server Message Block Protocol)
No. Time Source Destination Protocol Info
137 23.411395 192.168.0.2 192.168.0.1 SMB Tree Connect AndX Response
Frame 137 (114 bytes on wire, 114 bytes captured)
Ethernet II, Src: Intel_1b:93:56 (00:04:23:1b:93:56), Dst: Mototech_91:23:c1 (00:50:bf:91:23:c1)
Internet Protocol, Src: 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2), Dst: 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1)
Transmission Control Protocol, Src Port: microsoft-ds (445), Dst Port: uaiact (1470), Seq: 40, Ack: 122, Len: 60
NetBIOS Session Service
SMB (Server Message Block Protocol)
No. Time Source Destination Protocol Info
138 23.411533 192.168.0.1 192.168.0.2 SMB NT Create AndX Request, FID: 0x8000, Path: \wkssvc
Frame 138 (158 bytes on wire, 158 bytes captured)
Ethernet II, Src: Mototech_91:23:c1 (00:50:bf:91:23:c1), Dst: Intel_1b:93:56 (00:04:23:1b:93:56)
Internet Protocol, Src: 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1), Dst: 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2)
Transmission Control Protocol, Src Port: uaiact (1470), Dst Port: microsoft-ds (445), Seq: 122, Ack: 100, Len: 104
NetBIOS Session Service
SMB (Server Message Block Protocol)
No. Time Source Destination Protocol Info
139 23.411818 192.168.0.2 192.168.0.1 SMB NT Create AndX Response, FID: 0x8000
Frame 139 (193 bytes on wire, 193 bytes captured)
Ethernet II, Src: Intel_1b:93:56 (00:04:23:1b:93:56), Dst: Mototech_91:23:c1 (00:50:bf:91:23:c1)
Internet Protocol, Src: 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2), Dst: 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1)
Transmission Control Protocol, Src Port: microsoft-ds (445), Dst Port: uaiact (1470), Seq: 100, Ack: 226, Len: 139
NetBIOS Session Service
SMB (Server Message Block Protocol)
No. Time Source Destination Protocol Info
140 23.413062 192.168.0.1 192.168.0.2 DCERPC Bind: call_id: 1 WKSSVC V1.0
Frame 140 (194 bytes on wire, 194 bytes captured)
Ethernet II, Src: Mototech_91:23:c1 (00:50:bf:91:23:c1), Dst: Intel_1b:93:56 (00:04:23:1b:93:56)
Internet Protocol, Src: 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1), Dst: 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2)
Transmission Control Protocol, Src Port: uaiact (1470), Dst Port: microsoft-ds (445), Seq: 226, Ack: 239, Len: 140
NetBIOS Session Service
SMB (Server Message Block Protocol)
DCE RPC Bind, Fragment: Single, FragLen: 72, Call: 1
No. Time Source Destination Protocol Info
141 23.413149 192.168.0.2 192.168.0.1 SMB Write AndX Response, FID: 0x8000, 72 bytes
Frame 141 (105 bytes on wire, 105 bytes captured)
Ethernet II, Src: Intel_1b:93:56 (00:04:23:1b:93:56), Dst: Mototech_91:23:c1 (00:50:bf:91:23:c1)
Internet Protocol, Src: 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2), Dst: 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1)
Transmission Control Protocol, Src Port: microsoft-ds (445), Dst Port: uaiact (1470), Seq: 239, Ack: 366, Len: 51
NetBIOS Session Service
SMB (Server Message Block Protocol)
No. Time Source Destination Protocol Info
142 23.413287 192.168.0.1 192.168.0.2 SMB Read AndX Request, FID: 0x8000, 1024 bytes at offset 0
Frame 142 (117 bytes on wire, 117 bytes captured)
Ethernet II, Src: Mototech_91:23:c1 (00:50:bf:91:23:c1), Dst: Intel_1b:93:56 (00:04:23:1b:93:56)
Internet Protocol, Src: 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1), Dst: 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2)
Transmission Control Protocol, Src Port: uaiact (1470), Dst Port: microsoft-ds (445), Seq: 366, Ack: 290, Len: 63
NetBIOS Session Service
SMB (Server Message Block Protocol)
No. Time Source Destination Protocol Info
143 23.413358 192.168.0.2 192.168.0.1 DCERPC Bind_ack: call_id: 1 accept max_xmit: 4280 max_recv: 4280
Frame 143 (186 bytes on wire, 186 bytes captured)
Ethernet II, Src: Intel_1b:93:56 (00:04:23:1b:93:56), Dst: Mototech_91:23:c1 (00:50:bf:91:23:c1)
Internet Protocol, Src: 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2), Dst: 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1)
Transmission Control Protocol, Src Port: microsoft-ds (445), Dst Port: uaiact (1470), Seq: 290, Ack: 429, Len: 132
NetBIOS Session Service
SMB (Server Message Block Protocol)
DCE RPC Bind_ack, Fragment: Single, FragLen: 68, Call: 1
No. Time Source Destination Protocol Info
144 23.414611 192.168.0.1 192.168.0.2 WKSSVC NetWkstaGetInfo request Level:100
Frame 144 (202 bytes on wire, 202 bytes captured)
Ethernet II, Src: Mototech_91:23:c1 (00:50:bf:91:23:c1), Dst: Intel_1b:93:56 (00:04:23:1b:93:56)
Internet Protocol, Src: 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1), Dst: 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2)
Transmission Control Protocol, Src Port: uaiact (1470), Dst Port: microsoft-ds (445), Seq: 429, Ack: 422, Len: 148
NetBIOS Session Service
SMB (Server Message Block Protocol)
SMB Pipe Protocol
DCE RPC Request, Fragment: Single, FragLen: 60, Call: 1 Ctx: 0, [Resp: #145]
Workstation Service, NetWkstaGetInfo
No. Time Source Destination Protocol Info
145 23.414894 192.168.0.2 192.168.0.1 WKSSVC NetWkstaGetInfo response
Frame 145 (242 bytes on wire, 242 bytes captured)
Ethernet II, Src: Intel_1b:93:56 (00:04:23:1b:93:56), Dst: Mototech_91:23:c1 (00:50:bf:91:23:c1)
Internet Protocol, Src: 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2), Dst: 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1)
Transmission Control Protocol, Src Port: microsoft-ds (445), Dst Port: uaiact (1470), Seq: 422, Ack: 577, Len: 188
NetBIOS Session Service
SMB (Server Message Block Protocol)
SMB Pipe Protocol
DCE RPC Response, Fragment: Single, FragLen: 128, Call: 1 Ctx: 0, [Req: #144]
Workstation Service, NetWkstaGetInfo
No. Time Source Destination Protocol Info
146 23.415071 192.168.0.1 192.168.0.2 SMB Close Request, FID: 0x8000
Frame 146 (99 bytes on wire, 99 bytes captured)
Ethernet II, Src: Mototech_91:23:c1 (00:50:bf:91:23:c1), Dst: Intel_1b:93:56 (00:04:23:1b:93:56)
Internet Protocol, Src: 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1), Dst: 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2)
Transmission Control Protocol, Src Port: uaiact (1470), Dst Port: microsoft-ds (445), Seq: 577, Ack: 610, Len: 45
NetBIOS Session Service
SMB (Server Message Block Protocol)
No. Time Source Destination Protocol Info
147 23.415164 192.168.0.2 192.168.0.1 SMB Close Response, FID: 0x8000
Frame 147 (93 bytes on wire, 93 bytes captured)
Ethernet II, Src: Intel_1b:93:56 (00:04:23:1b:93:56), Dst: Mototech_91:23:c1 (00:50:bf:91:23:c1)
Internet Protocol, Src: 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2), Dst: 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1)
Transmission Control Protocol, Src Port: microsoft-ds (445), Dst Port: uaiact (1470), Seq: 610, Ack: 622, Len: 39
NetBIOS Session Service
SMB (Server Message Block Protocol)
No. Time Source Destination Protocol Info
148 23.434293 192.168.0.1 192.168.0.2 SMB Tree Disconnect Request
Frame 148 (93 bytes on wire, 93 bytes captured)
Ethernet II, Src: Mototech_91:23:c1 (00:50:bf:91:23:c1), Dst: Intel_1b:93:56 (00:04:23:1b:93:56)
Internet Protocol, Src: 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1), Dst: 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2)
Transmission Control Protocol, Src Port: uaiact (1470), Dst Port: microsoft-ds (445), Seq: 622, Ack: 649, Len: 39
NetBIOS Session Service
SMB (Server Message Block Protocol)
No. Time Source Destination Protocol Info
149 23.434396 192.168.0.2 192.168.0.1 SMB Tree Disconnect Response
Frame 149 (93 bytes on wire, 93 bytes captured)
Ethernet II, Src: Intel_1b:93:56 (00:04:23:1b:93:56), Dst: Mototech_91:23:c1 (00:50:bf:91:23:c1)
Internet Protocol, Src: 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2), Dst: 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1)
Transmission Control Protocol, Src Port: microsoft-ds (445), Dst Port: uaiact (1470), Seq: 649, Ack: 661, Len: 39
NetBIOS Session Service
SMB (Server Message Block Protocol)
No. Time Source Destination Protocol Info
150 23.435431 192.168.0.1 192.168.0.2 TCP clvm-cfg > http [SYN] Seq=0 Win=65535 Len=0 MSS=1460
Frame 150 (62 bytes on wire, 62 bytes captured)
Ethernet II, Src: Mototech_91:23:c1 (00:50:bf:91:23:c1), Dst: Intel_1b:93:56 (00:04:23:1b:93:56)
Internet Protocol, Src: 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1), Dst: 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2)
Transmission Control Protocol, Src Port: clvm-cfg (1476), Dst Port: http (80), Seq: 0, Len: 0
No. Time Source Destination Protocol Info
151 23.722121 192.168.0.1 192.168.0.2 TCP uaiact > microsoft-ds [ACK] Seq=661 Ack=688 Win=65086 Len=0
Frame 151 (60 bytes on wire, 60 bytes captured)
Ethernet II, Src: Mototech_91:23:c1 (00:50:bf:91:23:c1), Dst: Intel_1b:93:56 (00:04:23:1b:93:56)
Internet Protocol, Src: 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1), Dst: 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2)
Transmission Control Protocol, Src Port: uaiact (1470), Dst Port: microsoft-ds (445), Seq: 661, Ack: 688, Len: 0
No. Time Source Destination Protocol Info
152 23.999944 192.168.0.2 192.168.0.1 TCP mxxrlogin > icslap [PSH, ACK] Seq=17761 Ack=28105 Win=64364 Len=740
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06-11-2009, 10:49 AM
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#15 (permalink) |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 240
OS: LAN Herder
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Re: Taking ownership of files on remote computer
That is something different, but it seems incomplete. Details of what is in the SMB portion of the packet can be seen by clicking on the boxed-plus icon in the packet details window. You'd need to look at the NTLM challenge and auth packets to see what kind of login is being attempted.
It's possible to save the packet capture as a file. In Wireshark, on the toolbar at the top, click File -> SaveAs, give it some file name, and save in the default .pcap format. This saves all the packet data in the capture, so it can be examined later. The forum here won't allow pcap file attachment, but you can zip the capture file, and post a zip file. Then I can got thru the capture to see if I can make sense of what's going on. |
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06-12-2009, 07:21 AM
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#16 (permalink) |
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 20
OS: Windows XP
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Re: Taking ownership of files on remote computer
Great, thank you so much for your help!
I did another capture with Wireshark, and it contains that NTLM challenge and authentication stuff. Please have a look at the attached log file!
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06-16-2009, 11:29 AM
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#20 (permalink) |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 240
OS: LAN Herder
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Re: Taking ownership of files on remote computer
A little bit. There is a null login at frame 196 which I'm trying to make sense of. Null login usually translates into the Guest account, or some other minimum privilege account. I'm having to research things a bit as I go, which is proving a bit more time consuming that I had expected. It's educational
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