Senko

Hey there,

1st off, sorry if this seems a bit 'not very WinXP' involved but this kinda influences a lot of topics as I'm going to attempt to explain;

Right, I'm using AVG 7.5 Anti Virus scanner ( free edition ) to keep my computer Virus free, unfortunetly, I've had a problem with my computer freezing up when it starts scanning certain files, I've already noted down the majority of files and they mainly consist of DLL's.

The freeze will will be a momentary 3-5 second freeze to where everything, even the mouse cursor will freeze in place, followed by unfreezing for about 5-10 seconds. This will happen over and over again, about 5-10 times before getting a BSOD stating nothing else except a 0x000000F4 error, followed by a few more numbers. I did a quick google for the mentioned error and it seems to go on about corrupt diskspace something or rather or simply bad RAM.

However, I find it weird that it's just a few files that seem to trigger this error, also note that if I were to click on the file in explorer, the same freeze will occur, but I'm mainly suspecting that it's AVG's fault, because it's probably auto-scanning it as soon as I click it.

I succesfully removed some of the files causing this freeze-up via CMD, and deleting them manually, as right clicking on these files would just cause a freeze up and I wouldn't be able to delete them.

The following files have caused this so far :

'surf_untildeath.cache' in my cstrike\maps\soundcache, a rather seemingly harmless file, which is produced when I launched the map surf_untildeath in Counter-Strike: Source, I removed this file as I had no need for playing the map anyway.

'client.dll', located in my Mods folder in my Steam directory, again, this was involved in some 3rd party mod I no longer played so I deleted it.

I've had problems with sound and Steam, gotten the error datacache.dll with certain mods but was able to bypass it by playing the games with -nosound enabled, but yeah, that's sort of off-topic.

now, for the one that I can't really delete;

'Windows\I386\ntdll.dll'

I already know that ntdll.dll can cause serious problems if removed, and that it's a part of Windows itself, but I've experianced multiple problems and crashes because of this file.

An example is Winamp, this will happen at any given totally random moment, that I would attempt to start Winamp, and it would fail on load giving an error and blaming ntdll.dll, if I were to attempt to start Winamp again, it would state the same, the only work-around I found that didn't involve touching ntdll.dll, would be to uninstall Winamp, and reinstall it. Now you might jump to conclusions about me having corrupt plugins for Winamp but I can assure you I have no such things.

As for other examples of ntdll.dll causing crashes, I can't quite remember what because this is an error that has plagued me for well over 3 months now, but it doesn't occur very often.

As for the other DLL's that caused my computer to freeze up, they were mainly associated with games and mods, but due to common sense I can safely say that 99% of them were not infected by anything that can be considered a virus, or anything that a virus scanner should pick up.

So yeah, what I'm trying to find out ultimately is,

Why is my AVG causing my computer to freeze up giving an 0X000000F4 error when scanning these .DLL's/Files ?, Also note that I've scanned about 80% of my harddrive so far so there might be another file going to cause this freeze up but I am yet to reach that far in my scans.

And, is there a 110% legit/working/safe ntdll.dll replacement for me out there on the internet ?

On a sidenote - has anyone seen a fix for the cursed datacache.dll error with HL2 ? - I'm forced to run Smod: Tactical with -nosound as everytime I load a map it crashes. It seems sound involved, as it crashes on next event sound, but I've already tried all DiaxSoundAccel's and Reinstalling / Using different sound cards.

On a sidesidenote - I recently uninstalled AVG in order to install a program, which AVG INSISTED on was a Trojan of sorts, but I knew it was safe, so I uninstalled AVG which well, led to a day of restoring my computer. Following the reboot after AVG was uninstalled, I would reach my login screen and hit enter and see a black screen followed by my harddrive going crazy and then a BSOD, this happened a few times and I remember doing something in Safe Mode, I had to delete some system boot file and it worked again. Which all leads me to believe that mabey AVG isn't the right program for me ?... Well, incase anyones wondering the above mentioned freezes happened prior this uninstall.

Well, if I can provide you with any further information required to investigate the matter, kindly request so, looking forward to a reply, even if it won't be of any help ! =D.

Thanx in advance,
Senko

chauffeur2

G'Day Senko,

Firstly, I commend you for your detailed explantion.

Now to your issue...my research has found that this could be caused by a number of different things (and I don't think that AVG™ is one of these causes); so let's eliminate them one at a time. (Including AVG™)

My first Pick...is your Winamp installation..if it is version 2.7.7.0; then, we have found the problem first pop!..
The only suggestion that Microsoft® give is, to contact the Nullsoft Corporation Inc. (the winamp makers) direct and enquire about a 'fix' being available.

Ok that's number one, so if you can the version of your winamp.exe we can either do something about it, or eliminate it and move to the next scenario.

Post back with the information please.

Kind Regards,

Senko

Thank you for your prompt reply, Dave

I do however have the latest version of Winamp, 5.3.4.1278.

And for the record this ntdll.dll error popping up when starting winamp has occured in various Winamp versions, probably back since 5.0, about 5+ months ago now.

chauffeur2

Hi again Senko,

Ok...that's one problem out of the way (for the moment at least ).

The next one to eliminate will need a bit more information from you; so I would like you to go here; read the Guide; download and install this Freeware program called "Everest™Home Edition"; then once its installed...go to the "Computer Section"..under 'Summary' and post the screenshots (it will probably need two) of the information displayed.

While you are in the mode for giving information, could you also give the details about your Power Supply Unit (PSU) too please.
One we get this information, we can then assess the next course of action.

In the meantime, a couple of questions...

Over these last 5+ months, have you done regular defragmentations of your Drive/s?

How 'old' is this machine of yours?

With persistence and patience, we will eventually make this cantankerous contraption 'behave', so, please bear with us.

Post back with the information and we shall continue.

Regards,

Senko

Dear Dave,

I have attached a SS of the requested page, I am however on a Laptop, namely, a Fujitsu Siemens AMILO M3438G, so finding out what my power supply is might become a bit of a pickle.

As for defragmenting, I use(d) Executive Software Diskeeper, however, I've been extremely lazy performing this, it was only a few weeks ago where I did my 1st Defragment for probably a whole year, and as you can see my HDD's are stuffed, and my computer has a lot random stuff on it. But funny that you ask, altho I've been succesful in defragmenting my D:\ drive, my C:\ drive always finished defragmenting but still displayed a lot of bad sectors, I will attach a screenshot of the Performance Map, and I will start defragmenting right away after I've finished this post.

My Laptop is about 1.5 years in constant use now. I use it for everything from Games, Entertainment to Work.

Thanx again !
I'm heading over to Mc'Ds to get me some grub, so I'll be back in about an hour.

Best Regards,
Senko

Attached Images

	EverestSS1.JPG (294.3 KB, 10 views)
	Defrag status.JPG (227.7 KB, 13 views)

chauffeur2

Hi Senko,

It looks as though we have found one of the culprits...your HDD's are 'chocking' under the strain of being 'bloated' with too much on them!

I recommend that you take "Mr Executive Software Diskeeper's" advice, and copy some of the excess onto CD's.

While you are 'clogged' up so much, the HDD cannot find the files when it needs them; hence, these 'error messages'.

You mentioned that you "UNINSTALLED AVG"...so what AV do you have on your machine at this moment?

If you have not got any I'd suggest that you disconnect from the Internet IMMEDIATELY until you can reinstall, say, AVG...as I am betting that its NOT the issue here.

Once you have freed up some space to allow the defragmentation to be done properly, report back with how the performance is, and if these errors are still occurring.

Kind Regards,

Senko

Hey again Dave,

I did reinstall AVG after uninstalling it.

So, I've been kinda struggling with a defrag as I had a huge lack of space, and even tho I cleared up 20% availability, it didn't seem sufficient. I've been running diskeeper over and over now and it seems to get similar symptoms as AVG, as when Diskeeper gets to certain files (such as ntdll.dll ), I'll experiance these freeze ups for 4-5 seconds a few times, but the computer actually recovers from this when it goes on to defrag the next file.

At 1st, I thought these slow downs were caused by high reso textures that I had installed for Half Life 2, as everytime Diskeeper got to there, it started slowing down, a LOT, so I thought 'ah screw it' and deleted my entire Valve folder which was about 30 gigs and counting.

So, that's when I noticed that Diskeeper was actually slowing down(freezing) to a lot similar files as AVG was getting frozen on too

Well, in any case, I'll keep the defrags running, even tho ntdll.dll has been moved all over the place it still seems to cause system instability, I'm at 45% free C:/ space, but half my disc still shows up as 'Low performance' files and folders, will have to work on that !

I'll report back here when my Performance map shows me in the green.

Regards,
Senko

EDIT :

After having such a strong feeling that AVG was somewhat to blame for these freeze-ups, I uninstalled it to perform a quick test, but, you were right, AVG holds no blame, after uninstalling, if I were to click onto Ntdll.dll, I would have this endless loop of freezes for 4-5 seconds, even tho the computer unfreezes for 10 seconds after that, I'm totally unable to do anything, no taskmanager, no nothing.

I was trying to speed up things by hopefully removing these freeze-ups during the defrag as they severly affect the ammount of time it takes, guess I'll just have to be more patient at keep at it, will report back soon.

chauffeur2

Hi Senko,

Perhaps once you have regained some space on both the HDD's, and have completed a successful defragmentation of both Drives, try this...

Go into My Computer; Right Click the C: Drive Icon > Properties > Disk Cleanup > follow the on-screen prompts (it is not advisable to alter any of the settings); this will clean the redundant Temporary Files and Cookies; when finished, click OK to clear out of the Disk Cleanup.

Please repeat this procedure for the D: Drive as well.

When that's done...

Please perform this workaround also (you will need your Windows® XP SP2 CD).

Insert the Windows® XP CD in your CD Drive. (Hold down the Shift Key to prevent it from starting.)

Go Start > Run...in the box type in sfc /scannow...please take note of the space between the sfc and the /.

This is the System File Checker...it will scan all the Windows® core system files to ensure that they are in their respective correct places, and if not replace them from the CD.

During the scan you may be asked to Insert the CD, if this happens just go retry and let it do its thing.

One important point: While sfc it running, it is not advisable to do any other work on the computer until the scan is complete. (The process will generally take around 45-75 minutes to complete.)

Once finished, remove the CD and reboot your machine...all should be "Normal" (hopefully).

Post back with the results; then, we shall decide what the next course of action will be (if necessary).

Regards,

Senko

Hey Dave,

I'm still working on the defragment, am currently at work so kinda busy with other things. I'll follow the above instructions step by step, but I'll have to wait til I hit home for my Windows XP SP2 CD, a question tho, does it matter if it's Professional or Home Edition ? As I have Home Edition installed, but I think the one I have at my apartment is Professional.

Oh and for the record, I took a friends advice and Downloaded 'Windows Live One Care', and kept AVG off my system. I did a full virus scan in One Care just for fun and it had the same problems, it got stuck at a file in windows\installer\5b8349s.msi <- this is a made up name, but it went something along those lines. However, even tho the computer was pretty much frozen, it did not get a BSOD, and it did display the little icon in the corner saying 'Delayed Write Error', but as soon as I tried to click it after letting it run by itself for an odd 2 hours, it gave me the good old BSOD.

Anyways, It's pretty much the same thing that's been happening since the start hehe, again, I'll work on defragging this darned thing and following the rest of your instructions, I'll post on later tonight.

chauffeur2

Hi Senko,

Perseverience does pay-off in the long run!

Stick with it!

Regarding which CD to use; sorry but it must be of the same 'flavour', meaning if Windows® XP Home Edition is installed then it has to be a Windows® XP Home CD...as there are some subtle differences in the core files.

Post back whenever you can.

Kind Regards,

Senko

Hey again Dave,

Well, I'm getting used to being a bringer of bad news now...

Okay, Defragmenting, I've stared at this thing doing over 10 Defrags in a row, basically, the only thing it tries to do is move the 4 files that get the system locked up, these files are now :

'ntdll.dll',
'(a lot of numbers and letters).msi', located under 'windows\installer',
'restore_(a lot of numbers).dll' located under 'System Volume Information'
'restore_(a lot of different numbers).dll located under 'System Volume Information'

Basically, this is what happens when I start my Defragging;

It'll succesfully move a few random files around, it's usually the same ones that it defragged the last time I ran it, it will then get onto the files under System Volume Information and try and move them, they aren't big, one is 2mb and the other is 18mb, but it will get stuck for about 5 minutes trying to defrag these 2 files and will eventually carry on.

It will then carry on with some other random yet 'seen before' files, until it reaches ntdll.dll, and 'a lot of numbers and letters.msi', same behaviour, ntdll.dll is half a mb and the .msi file is about 5 mb, but it'll get stuck on these for ages.

After these have been initially checked, my defragger will be at around 6% complete, but, however, it will keep defragging the same files over and over, it keeps trying to defrag those .dll's, and the .msi and it won't give up, but the % goes up and up all the time. After about 50+ minutes it'll usually be complete and it'll tell me how many fragments it cured, the last report was a decrease of 1% in fragments, which still leaves lots and lots to be done.

As for your guidelines, I thought I'd try and use the sfc/ scannow, even tho I hadn't completely defragged everything, I was succesful in aquireing a home edition SP2 CD and able to do this but with no luck as to it fixing anything, as soon as the bar hit full, I restarted my computer. When I hit the startup screen I already noticed my resolution had gone down the drain, and somehow that System File Checker had uninstalled my Graphics Card, well, altho it was still displaying in the Hardware Overview, it wasn't active with my Profile or something, anyways, so I reinstalled it quickly seeing as I had the latest drivers already unzipped on my C: Drive. But as for the ntdll.dll functioning, well, I browsed towards the i386 folder and then clicked ntdll.dll, no lock up, but then I attempted to open it's Properties via a right-click and the same problem would occur.

I remember having troubles with my ntdll.dll a long time ago, or back when Winamp started acting up and blaming ntdll, I went online to see if my ntdll was authentic and it was fine, the file size, modified dates and file versions were all correct. Could it be possible that the file is just simply broken to bits ?... I mean, this seems to have occured in mostly .dll's in totally random parts on my computer. Mabey I bumped my laptop into something the other day haha...

I'm pretty close to just attacking CMD and manually removing all these files that are causing me these lock-ups, but I'm not quite sure if it's going to be that easy for me to get a new ntdll and that weird .msi installer file back, as I understand they are quite critical, or atleast ntdll...

Defragging was fun and all but I've had my share of it for now, I have 47% volume space free, but every time the sucker ends up scanning/defragging the mentioned files everything just goes wrong.

Well, if there's something else you have in mind Dave now is the time, haha, otherwise I'll just throw on a fresh copy of windows after backing up all my stuff, I have a 400gb external HDD that I bought not long ago, perfect for the occasion

Thanx again and Best Regards,
Senko

chauffeur2

Hi Senko,

Give me 10 minutes to see if I can round up 'The Cavalry'..

(I'll get one of my collegues here to have a look and see what we can come up with.)

Regards,

chauffeur2

Senko,

In the meantime, I suggest that you start backing up your files to this 'Gem' of an external HDD, and once that's done we might try something else, but I would like a second opinion on it first.

So bear with us.

Regards,

chauffeur2

Ok Senko,

Rather than put you through more 'pain and suffering' ...It's now my turn for the bad news

You have two choices here...

1: Go to the Hard Disc Drive's Manufacturer's website and download their HDD Diagnostic tools and run that on your computer...this will determine if the HDD's are actually 'damaged' as a result of being 'bloated' for so long.
If the "Tools" say that the HDD is OK then, you are extremely lucky...if they say that they are 'damaged'; it's this...

2: Get what ever files you want to 'save' to that external HDD; then go here, and download "Boot N' Nuke", a program that will completely wipe your HDD; then, it's a 'fresh' Installation of Windows® XP Home for you.

One Important Point: If the Diagnostic Tools do show "Bad Sectors", "Boot N' Nuke" might or might not help ...if not....then it's a trip to your friendly computer parts store and buy some 'new' HDD's.

Sorry for the bad tidings.

Kind Regards,

Senko

Hey Dave,

I'm currently going trough the process of getting a diagnostic tool for my HDD, it insists I install some ASPI drivers of sorts, so gonna work on that. Well, if I do end up having unrepairable bad sectors, I couldn't have thought of a better country to be staying in than the current one, namely, China, haha, well, either way, it's Friday night and it's time to hit the bars, I'll work on this some more later. Will keep you posted on progress !

Best Regards,
Senko

chauffeur2

Ok Senko,

Enjoy your night out in Kowloon, or on "The Island" !

Please post back with what transpires.



Kind Regards,

Senko

Dear Dave,

The night didn't last as long as usual so I've found myself back in my apartment tackling the problems at hand, and I must say I'm no pro when it comes to doing what I've been trying the past few minutes !

First off, I went to the website http://www.fujitsu.com/us/services/c...utilities.html and downloaded the Diagnostic Tool Ver. 6.3, for SCSI Hard Drives, as jpg 'SCSI.jpg' shows, seeing as my HDD's have exactly those 4 letters in their description names, I thought I'd hit the right spot, anywho, as you can see via that link it *Requires Adaptec's ASPI32 driver, which, I downloaded via the nearest google link, no problems there.

But, as I actually got this SCSI Diagnostic tool working, it would display nothing more than what's displayed in the 'SCSI DIAG.jpg', or in other words, it would not display any hard drives, just empty slots.

Well, that's when I started looking at EVEREST again and spotted what's displayed in the 'ATA.jpg', perhaps my HDD's were ATA after all ?, well, I went trough a lot of trouble on learning how to create a Boot CD, followed by how to execute a bloody program in Boot DOS, I kept trying exec, run, etc etc and it turned out I only had to write the 'FJDT.EXE' in order to execute it.

But, with no luck, as displayed in 'ATA DIAG.jpg', it would not detect my HDD's either... I googled for my HDD's name followed by 'Diagnostic Tool' and found this site http://193.128.183.41/home/v3__produ...&inf=swr&wg=30 which offered me a newer version of the boot diag tool, and actually has my HDD's name right above the DL link, but, I had the same fate, I created another boot CD and even tho the initial 'Scanning for HDD' took about 5 times longer in the newer version, it found nothing.

Incase I did something wrong with the ASPI driver installation I attached a screenshot of what EVEREST thought of it. I'm kinda new with the program and again, we're venturing into unexplored territory on my end.

So yeah, a bummer I must say, I think I'll give it a rest for tonight, maybe back up some more of my files whilst I watch some TV. But I'm skeptical as to having actual bad sectors on my HDD's, even tho it's a laptop and I travel with it a lot I've got a super near-bullet proof bag for it, followed by taking extra good care of it, physically. But still makes me ponder as to why these files have started behaving like they do and causing all this commotion.

In any case, I'll look into this some more when I am bit more sober and awake.

Best Regards,
Senko

Attached Images

	SCSI.JPG (117.8 KB, 3 views)
	ATA.JPG (127.1 KB, 2 views)
	ASPI.JPG (101.3 KB, 2 views)
	SCSI DIAG.JPG (51.9 KB, 4 views)
	ATA DIAG.JPG (63.4 KB, 4 views)

chauffeur2

Greetings Senko,

This is computer of yours is becoming more and more cantankerous by the minute.

No problem, as we are both more intelligent than this piece of electronic junk!

Firstly, let us presume that the Drives are ATA/IDE; the reason that I'm saying this as "Lord Everest" is telling me that they are! (In fact there is an ATA/IDE Controller listed.)

So, download the Diagnostic Tool from here....with the download there is a .pdf file there as well, with some extra info incase the test displays some weird 'Code' at the end; so I would recommend downloading it for reference too.

Create a DOS Boot Disc (if you haven't already) and let the Diagnostic Tool run, as per the instructions in the 'Help File' contained within the .zip download.

Being the eternal optimist (), I don't think that there is going to be much of a problem...either the HDD's are either "Healthy" or they are not.

Let's give these Drives (for the moment) the benefit of doubt and say that they are "Healthy"...you then need to re-visit my suggested Option 2: in my previous post, and carry out the instructions. (Saving all your files; wiping the Drives; then, proceed with a 'clean' installation of Windows®, etc.)

The more I think about this situation (and the trouble you have had with the Diagnostic Tools from Fujitsu™), more I am inclined to say is go straight to my Option 2:. (In the long run it will save you further frustration and anguish.)

After you read this, please post back with your thoughts.

Kind Regards,

Senko

Dear Dave,

Yesterday, in my, somewhat 'under the influence' state, I seem to have decided to just delete all the files that caused me these lock ups.

I started with ntdll.dll, thinking I could probably just get a new one from my windows CD, but that's when I noticed that I already made a back-up of ntdll.dll and named it 'ntdll.dl1', I had totally forgotten that I did this, it was about 5 months ago, back when Winamp started acting up the 1st time, I had backed up ntdll.dll manually incase I was going to replace it with some dodgy ntdll that I'd download, but I never did, or atleast I don't think I did.

So yeah, I proceeded and deleted ntdll.dll and used the one I had for backup instead. I then went on to delete this certain .msi file, it seemed to be a part of installer but I thought mehh, if all does indeed go wrong I'll just do 'option 2' as you adviced.

I then went to my system volume information folder and investigated the 2 .dlls and a .msi there. It was a weird folder, as everything I performed on my computer would actually somehow get into that folder, it seems to be some kind of temporary folder for recent actions or loaded things. Well, I've attached a screenshot of what got deleted in that folder. I rebooted right away after deleting all the troublesome beasts and did 2x defrags without a problem and a virus scan without it getting stuck anywhere.

Perhaps that was it ?... I seem to be able to do a full virus scan now and there are no files I can't click on that will get me locked up, so, yeah, according to my 1st post those were my troubles, haha.

As for defragging, I really want to get my drive into a healthy status, and as you can see via 'defrag status 2.jpg', it's still kinda messed up, but, that defrag only took about 3-4 minutes to perform, instead of the usual 1 hour due to nasty files. So I guess a 3% improvement isn't that bad considering the time it takes.

However, I think my laptop could use a clean format one day. So I'll keep the link to that 'Boot n Nuke'. Unfortunetly, all my CD's for important things including my original WinXP Home Edition SP2 are back at home, but I'll be heading there withint 3 weeks time.

In any case, I'd like to thank you for all the assistance for the past couple of nights, you've been of great help and I've learned a great deal more about troubleshooting. I guess I owe you a beer, Dave !

Kind Regards,
Senko

Attached Images

	VOLUME INFO.JPG (151.5 KB, 3 views)
	Defrag Status 2.JPG (248.0 KB, 4 views)

chauffeur2

Senko!

As I said earlier..."Persistence and perseverance does pay off in the long run"!

All you need to do now is repeat the 'backing up' on that other drive; give it a good clean, and a good defragment, and you should be on the "Road to Recovery".

It has been my pleasure to assist you.

(I'd prefer a Cabernet Sauvignon to a Beer! )

Kind Regards,