Novocaine

Start of rant
I recently installed vista, i originally intended to partition my HDD, but through the process somewhere that went tits up and decided to delete all of my files, so i had to do a clean install, so i decided i might aswell completely convert to Vista, after all it cant be THAT bad, can it?

so far im pleasently surprised with its general performance, although i havent tried running any games yet as they are all on my external HDD in backed up files :(
End of rant

I'm using windows vista ultimate, and the programme i used to do that backing up is Nero 7 ultimate, or more specifically within Nero its programme called 'Nero BackItUp'

When trying to restore the files using 'File View' and only selecting some of the folders then clicking 'Restore' and choosing a single folder to restore them all too, rather than selecting where to install them seperately, and then starting the restore process, Nero comes up with a warning saying;

Some of the folders/files cannot be restored because they will have long folder/file paths on the target location
Possible Cause:
- The folder selected as restore target has long path
- Backup was created on different operating system that had long filename support.


So im looking really to just, i dunno enable long name support or something, because ive tried making the restore folder literally only 1 folder deep within the C:\ drive. im not ready to loose all my files some things like games are not too bad, but 20GB of music is something id end up crying over! and of course a few important documents for Uni too that i spent hours on.

thanks for any help

Novocaine

bump...

plz any help with this?

can vista support long file/path names and if it does how do i enable it, it seems stupid to me that vista wouldn't be able to do this... and this appears to be my only problem

jcgriff2

Hi Novocaine. . .

Welcome to the Tech Support Forum - Vista Support!

I believe that I can help you with your backup/restore issue; however, I need some additional information from you... OK?

1. Where did the backup originate (i.e., an XP system, Vista system)?
2. Please specify the EXACT path where the backups are located.
3. Does your backup software allow you to view the folders/files prior to restore (i.e., can you actually select subfolders and view the file contents)?
4. Are you using a version or updated version that is known to be compatible with Vista?
5. Are you running a 32-bit (x-86) or 64-bit (x-64) system?
6. Have you taken ownership of any folders or files?
7. Have you changed file permissions on any folders or files?
8. What is the path that you are trying to restore the folders/file to?
9. Have you made any changes to the Vista NT Registry?
10. Can you view the backup files via Window Explorer?
11. Are you familiar with the "net user" command?

I ask these questions as I can think of several explanations as to why this situation could occur. Rather than listing all, I would rather be specific and address that which I consider to be paramount to your particular situation.

Regards. . .

jcgriff2

Novocaine

Ok, ill go through the questions as best i can;
1. i made the backup on Windows XP Media centre Version 2005

2 & 3. The files are located on the External HDD starting D:\Full System Backup then within that folder there are the multiple files that Nero 7 created called '20080313_230500_Felix_Disk_1_1_1' running down to 20080313_230500_Felix_Disk_1_1_161 sequentially. (dunno if it matters but each of these files is 1,945,600Kb in size)

when i open there files with nero 7 I am able to view them as seperate files and go into each as if it was a regular windows folder, and so when looking at the folders/files they are all setup how XP or myself setup.
e.g. programme files folders within the C:\ drive My documents etc..

4. Im using Nero 7 ultimate edition for the backup/restore process which i had installed on XP before this happened, and before installing vista i downloaded a programme by microsoft to check my computer for vista compatibility and only 1 piece of software came up saying it might not be compatible, so as far as i know i believe Nero 7 is fully compatible.

5. im running vista 32 bit

6. im not quite sure what your asking there.

7. file permissions as in whether certain user accounts can access the file/folders? im not entirely sure, i think i did at some point but that may have been on a different computer as i am now the sole user account and have been since i bought the current computer.

8. i have tried 2 different paths to restore to. the first was;
C:\Users\Felix\Desktop\Restored files
and the second
C:\Restored files

both had the exact same result.

9. No

10. No, only through using Nero 7

11. No, im not


Hopefully this is enough info for you?

Thanks

jcgriff2

Did all of the back-up files in question - the ones that you are trying to restore - originate in the "My Documents" folder?

Regards. . .

jcgriff2

Novocaine

No, only some of them, but the most important files are/were in the MyDocuments folder

jcgriff2

1. Is there any chance that the restore program is trying to restore the files to the same folder "c:\Documents and Settings\%username%\My Documents" - at least that you know of?
2. When viewing the files using Nero7, does it take you through the various sub-directories making it seem as if you were still under XP?
3. Was anything in the folders that you tried to restore the files to on your Vista drive c:?
4. Is there a log file created by the software?

Regards. . .

jcgriff2

Novocaine

1. I dont think so, i manually selected myself the folder i created to hold all the restored files so that i could pick and choose more easily which i wanted to keep.

2. Well, once ive loaded the 'File View' in Nero7 i am able to look through the files as if i had the window on the left with the + signs nect to them to open that particular folder, and then in the main screen the files/folders within that appear. it is an identical folder setup to what its like in XP, just obviously it uses its own window.

3. Yes the direct root drive name is C:
but i am able to tick/untick each seperate folder or file to restore or not

4. yes it does create a log file, however it creates a log entry for each file that could not be restored, which is.....all of them and consequently is just thousands of lines saying, 'cannot create destination files at C:\**restore file path that i chose**

jcgriff2

Hi. . .

Please get that log file and upload it and attach to you next post so that I may have a look at it. It may be necessary for you to rename the file extension so that it ends in ".txt".

I do have several theories on this - assuming it is Vista related - and not Nero 7 - but I would like to see the log first.... OK?

Regards. . .

jcgriff2

p.s. If it is too big for an attachment here, then edit it, deleting out portions in the middle of the log - KEEP the BEGINNING and ENDING entries in tact.

Novocaine

Ok after finaly compiling a new log which turned out to be just over 100Mb in size ive edited out the repeated parts and added comments to show which parts were repeating.

p.s. when trying the restore again to get the log file, a few files were restored, but not properly, a few folders that had all the files in them, but those files were all incomplete. The slightly worrying thing is that they restored themselves in the 'My Documents' folder, not in the directory i told Nero to restore them to, but it seems it was only a few from my documents nowhere else

Attached Files

logfile edit.txt (7.9 KB, 2 views)

jcgriff2

Hello again. . .

Thanks for answering my questions and providing the log.

I was hoping the log would be more specific as to the "FROM" and "TO" of the files involved in the restore. That's OK though, as I was able to create some screen shots to hopefully better explain this to you. Basically what has happened is that your software product has been caught by the numerous "Junctions" within Vista.

The files coming from the Documents and Settings folder in XP appear to be trying to go to the same location in Vista. The problem is that there is no such folder in Vista. To accommodate the legacy programs and those that have not fully complied with Vista compatibility, Vista has "Junctions". Think of them as shortcuts for now. The question now becomes exactly where do these "Junctions" lead to. If an application attempts to access the Documents and Settings folder in Vista, the Junction will re-direct or point it to the appropriate folder within Vista. Documents and Settings in XP is now Users in Vista. However, there are Junctions within Junctions within Junctions, etc... and utility back-up programs are prime candidates in the victims category that seems to fall victim to this "endless loop". Here is a screen shot of the Junctions within the \users folder: (click on the thumbnail below, then click again once it comes up on screen to enlarge it even more):






I use a 3rd party utility program in lieu of Windows Explorer. With this software, I am able to view any folder or file within the system including Junctions. However, if I double-left-click on a Junction, and it leads to a folder containing that same Junction and I click on that and that leads to a folder containing that same Junction... well - you get the idea - it's an endless loop. As an example, I went into c:\users\PalmDesert\AppData\Local and then began my selection of the Junction "Application Data" - which to a program looks like just another folder. My software program will allow me to get about 18 sub-directories deep, before it gives me a "directory too long" error message. The path I chose to show you an example of a Junction inside a Junction, etc... leads to the same data - is as follows:

.

Code:

C:\Users\PalmDesert\AppData\Local\Application Data\Application Data\Application Data\Application Data\Application Data\Application Data\Application Data\Application Data\Application Data\Application Data\Application Data\VirtualStore\Windows\System32\DispDiag-20080316-225738-5812-4808.dat

         This code, 18 sub-directories deep, is the same as the following which is only 7 sub-directories deep:

C:\Users\PalmDesert\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Windows\System32\DispDiag-20080316-225738-5812-4808.dat

See for yourself in the following screen shot:





To show you the "damage" that can be done by improper use of these Junctions, take a look at the screen shot below. What you are about to see is from a fresh install of Vista. Using Windows Explorer, which does not recognize the Junctions as legitimate folders, it calculates the total hard drive (HDD) space being utilized by the \users\ folder as 531MB, or about ½GB. Now look to the left side in the screen shot where my private "Windows Explorer" has performed the same calculation - it came up with 7.9GB for the same \users\ folder! Granted there are some discrepancies because of hidden or system files/folders contained therein - but a difference of ± 7.4GB cannot be simply attributable to hidden files. Therefore a large part of this difference in HDD space can and must be attributable to the Vista Junctions.





Now I hope that you see what most like occurred in your case. The application, Nero 7, is apparently calling for a specific path and because it is executing a at a high permission setting, possibly event NT AUTHORITY/SYSTEM, it can easily contravene the Vista Junctions. This is unfortunate as using this software for backup purposes will undoubtedly result in backing up the same data numerous times. I can attest to this personally, as my 120GB HDD used over 300GB of storage on an external HDD not to long ago. Furthermore, the use of these Junctions by a program or by a user can and usually does result in the type of error that you encountered or worse - a system hang culminating with a system crash and the infamous Blue Screen of Death (or the new Red Screen of Death in Vista).

Please note that the \users\ folder is not the only location of these Junctions. System Junctions are numerous and are found elsewhere within Vista - not only within the files and the Vista NT Registry, but also in Virtualization.

I know all of the above is fascinating; however, it does not provide a solution for you. I felt compelled to explain this not only for your benefit, but for myself and others viewing this thread as well. For your situation, I would suggest reading any "help me" type files or literature provided by the software itself. I would hope that there is a method in which you can either restore the folders/files selectively within the user profile(s) or restore them to another location on the HDD such as a new directory acting as if it was the c: root itself. Does it mention exactly how many directories is "too many" for it to deal with? Is there a way that you could bring two Window Explorer windows together and "cut and paste" to the new location? One way that I subverted some of Vista's Junctions was to use the "DOS" SUBST command thereby substituting a drive letter for the intended destination path. This kept Vista from looking for, finding and using the pre-existing Junctions. For example: (assumes that "h" is the backup drive designation):

Code:

                           
From an ELEVATED command prompt:

         
c:
cd\
md RestoredFiles          (no spaces here)
md RestoredFiles\users
md RestoredFiles\users\Documents
md RestoredFiles\users\Documents\jcgriff2
subst r: c:\RestoredFiles
h:
cd\
cd Documents and Settings
cd My Documents
cd jcgriff2
copy *.* r:\users\Documents\jcgriff2
dir c:\RestoredFiles\users\Documents\jcgriff2 (provides a list of the files copied)

This will place the files copied from the backup drive h:\Documents and Settings\My Documents\jcgriff2 into c:RestoredFiles\users\Documents\jcgriff2. Junctions are not an issue here as they are treated as folders which are not copied - only the actual files within the jcgriff2 folder are copied.

Another way may be to rename all folders on the backup drive prior to restoration commencement.

I hope that this will assist you in the restoration of your files. Should you have any questions, please POST again.

Please let me know how you make out as this is a subject of importance and curiosity to me. Thanks.

Regards. . .

JC

Novocaine

Thanks for the reply to this frankly, very stupid problem. after looking at your suggestions, i got a little lost, but i think i understand why Vista is causing problems with this. So i decided to just plug in my external HDD into my old computer that runs XP, (to think i was just about to throw it away!) and use nero to restore the files that way, then place the files back on the HDD but without using any software just windows so i can access it as a regular folder, which thank god worked. only problem is that its taking forever to do this process. to restore 23Gb from the archives that nero created it took 3 hours. im sure ill be spending at least the whole of tomorrow restoring the remaning 210Gb if not the day after that...

sorry i cudnt help with providing a proper solution using Vista, but if it works, i dont really want to go through the hassel of finding a method that is alien to me.

Thank you very much for your time.

jcgriff2

Hello again. . .

Apologies if I made things more confusing for you. I was simply trying to list the problem and the options open to you that I have used in the past. Finding a way to accomplish every task within the bounds of the Vista Operating System (OS) utilizing its screens is something that I myself rarely do. Many times I use my experience and knowledge gained from OS' prior to Vista to work through such issues - that is until bitten back by Vista itself!

Keep in mind that once you transfer all of your data to Vista, any backup that you make from Vista may actually cause additional problems for you because of the Junctions. You may not be able to tell which folder is the original, which is a copy or which is Vitualized. The worst case scenario would be that you end up restoring or copying the same folder 15x or more - if ever at all. It happened to me.

One way to curb the duplication of folders is not to mess (too much!) with file ownership rights, file permission settings and certainly not the User Access Control (UAC). Of course, you could just copy individual files within folders out or watch out for folders containing Junctions.

Also, be wary of trying to add any folders/files to the Program Files or ProgramData folders as they are read-only. Only the TrustedInstaller can install programs into the Program Files folder.

Lastly, are you using Windows Explorer to copy/move your files around? Would you like to try a different software product - like the one in my screen-shots?

The important thing here to note is that you now have a solution - and whether or not is is considered "conventional" under the terms of the Vista OS is irrelevant.

Regards and Good Luck to you. . .

JC

Novocaine

I havent changed any permissions, or ownership rights. but i did turn off the UAC popup thing, in general, as all it seemed to do was add an extra mouse click to opening files like with the .exe extension.

oh really... that might be a problem then, as i was planning to add quite a few folders into programme files so that i didnt have to re-download, or re-apply any changes or updates i have made whilst using the programmes. most of which i forgot what i did to them. :S

Yes im still using windows explorer to copy/move files around, but as far as im concerned im not bothered about using anything else to do it thanks.


Thanks once again for the help

jcgriff2

Hi again. . .

You would definitely want to re-install any programs that you were using under XP for at least two reasons - (1) Copying them into the Program Files folder, while not impossible, would not address the changes necessary to the Vista NT Registry; (2) there may be Vista compatibility issues that would be (should be) discovered during a program install under Vista.

Finally, I would boot into SAFEMODE and then copy the files from the external hard drive (HDD) to the local HDD. Under SAFEMODE, only critical system services would run thus providing you with greater system resources for the task at hand.

Also noteworthy is that Vista SP1 should be arriving any day now in the form of a Windows Update - if in has not already done so.

Good Luck to you and enjoy Vista.

Regards. . .

JC