chaosphoenix

I have spent quite a while searching for ways to kill processes in Vista. Probably the first things I'm going to be told to do is uninstall/reinstall, run virus scans, etc, but that is not the issue at hand here for me. It looks like I'm not the only one with this issue, as many other users have posted on forums across the net, but most of the responses I've read involve troubleshooting the process/program at hand, instead of locating a way to kill the process. My issue is not just one program, but several. (I am running Vista Ult 32bit)

It is mainly uTorrent hanging, and then end task just closes and hides the windows of it, while leaving the process still running. End Process does nothing and I have tried googling online for ways, using kill.exe, pskill, etc to try to terminate the process to no avail.
I've also had this problem with other software, such as certain games that crashed, etc.

What I am not looking for is troubleshooting, etc.
What I am looking for is a surefire way to kill a process, any process in general, not just the ones I have run into problems with.

I have tried using Task Manager, end task and end process. No Luck.
Command line utilities; taskkill, kill.exe, pskill. No luck here either.

Does anyone have any ideas/suggestions?

PS: I miss XP and how those processes ended when you killed them via Task Manager. >.>

bhahar84

Hi chaosphoenix!!

Ok, so you want a way to kill the process that hang? you can try using the kill command from command line. open up your command prompt, run it as a administrator. try type in like the one below:

taskkill /im taskmgr.exe

where the taskmgr.exe is the name of processes you want to end. and yes, you can type in tasklist to see the list of processes that running on your computer as well




hope this helps

Monty Python

Okay, first it depends on the process. Some processes are setup to run "automatically" and will restart after you kill them. Some processes are dependant on others, and if you kill a process that is depended on by a running process, that process will start it again, whether it is set to run "auto" or not.

Also, a process that restarts itself is frequently a clear symptom of malware. That plus the P2P filesharing program indicates your primary problem (whatever that may be) may be caused by malware.

Forum Rules prohibit giving any support to P2P filesharing, based on the idea that it is used for "illegal" purposes. Which if wrong, obviously as there are legal ways in which to do P2P, but them are the rules, and they really do mean it. So it would be good to not mention that aspect of your situation again.

Finally, killing process is useful for troubleshooting purposes. I have met others that kill processes as a regular routine, and it has always struck me as an inefficient, half-aXXed way to do things. Why is killing processes so important, when there are so many other, more-effective ways to manage them ?

chaosphoenix

ok to answer you. yes i understand the generalizations behind P2P filesharing, but my problem isnt with the P2P program specifically. I am bringing it up because, it is one example that has a problem I can replicate, and experiment on, but this pretty much applies to my general computing.
I am pretty sure that I dont have any malware on my system due to P2P, because I know what I'm doing. What happens with me though, is because my P2P client serves files off of an external HDD, which occasionally gets unplugged (on accident.. eek), when that happens, the entire uTorrent program/process totally locks up, whether it be because of the suddenly missing files, or unfinished IO operations, not sure what. I just brought that up as an example, I've had other things hang on me, such as Firefox, when some Flash applet goes awry. Most of these programs recognize instances of themselves, and when you try to start it again, it usually gives you a "The Firefox process is already running, please end the process or reboot your computer." sort of thing. This happens with my bittorrent client uTorrent, i get a "uTorrent is already running, please close the process...." and same with Trillian "Only one instance of Trillian may be running per machine..."

I aim to kill the process, because short of restarting, that is the only way to approach the problem. Alot of programs nowadays detect themselves, and if theyre already running, they try to hook onto that process (and in firefox's case, launch a new browser window, etc), but the problem with that is, if the process itself is stalled, then nothing works, forcing reboot.

to Bhahar84: yes I've tried using taskkill, but it hasnt worked. thanks for your help though.

ps. and monty python, thanks for informing me of the forum rules. I haven't been on here in a while, and I dont recall anything against P2P, I'll keep that in mind in the future.

chaosphoenix

and to follow up, if there are more effective ways to manage them, please share. I am resorting to end process, because to my knowledge, this used to be a surefire way of making sure broken things stopped acting broken (at least in XP) and started working again.

(You do know what I'm talking about right? The whole single instance deal.. etc? and im not just mumbling on like an idiot?)

//edit

and to clarify, you mentioned that some processes are set to restart automatically. I've encountered these before when troubleshooting/cleaning other peoples PCs. The process dissapears from the task manager list, only to pop back up a second later. Unless my computer is soo fast, that this switch isnt even noticeable.. I really doubt the process is restarting, because it stays there, maintaining its position in the list, not closing and restarting itself.

Monty Python

Yes to a certain extent there is a rambling nature. First I meant what I said about the "forbidden topic". Mention it again and that will be the end of my participation in this thread, plus I will flag it for consideration for closure.

Frequently people have just enough knowledge to be "dangerous" which is the euphemism. In real life what this looks like is that Users get so wrapped up in what they DO (or think they) know, that they close themselves off to what they don't.

As I said (and I don't just type these words for the typing practice) it completely depends upon the process. If you have a specific problem with a specific process it would do well to describe that situation in specific detail rather than generalizing, because (as I mentioned) generally speaking, problems that require the User to terminate a process via Task Manager are almost always the result of malware.

Please tattoo that one in reverse on your forehead, and then spend about 20 minutes staring at it in the mirror.

Or, less often, the problem is caused by corrupted system files, which can be corrupted through MALWARE, overclocking, overheating, a failing HD, bad memory and other reasons I can't think of right now.

If a process will not stop, it will tell you so. If it is stops, then appears "instantly" as if it were never stopped, that is because it restarted very fast.

Itty Bitty Process Manager is an alternative to Task Manager, and you can use it to see if the problem is that TM is not stopping the process, or if it is just restarting.

If you are inclined to explore & learn about processes, I suggest that you play with Administrative Tools>Services and get a sense of what processes there are, which ones are Auto, Auto (Delayed), Manual and Disabled.

Please note that this is an excellent way to completely cripple your machine; almost as good as fooling with the Registry.

But again, in general, until you can describe specific situations with specific processes, my general opinion on whatever general causes of your problems is malware.

In many cases, malware infestation is like a diagnosis of cancer. The first stage is Denial. Then Anger. Then "Negotiating" and finally Acceptance. Please skip the first two stages and describe your AV solution.

PalmDesert

Monty Python summed it up well - be cautious! And certainly think 3x prior to hacking the registry. Many a client, and myself, have commited irreversible errors requiring an HDD reformat and OS reinstall.

However, you are going to do what it is you are going to do; hence you should have, at least what I believe to be, the right tools.

For the process "kill" - start with SysInternals Process Explorer v11.04 (PE), part of the MS SysInternals Utility Suite, written by Mark Russinovich. PE will show you every running program on your system whether an application or a service. Simply find the executable file "procexp.exe" and run it under windows. Some of the programs found within the Suite must be executed at the command prompt.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/s.../bb896653.aspx

As MP mentioned, You may need to change the execution status of some from automatic, manual, delayed to disabled. One way to do this from within Vista is to use Windows Defender's Software Explorer. From Windows Defender, select "Tools" then "Software Explorer".

Good Luck.

chaosphoenix

First off, I believe I know enough about my system to know that this is not caused by malware, as hard as that is to believe.

Secondly, I know the process did not stop, because all the windows remained open in their grey "I'm-Frozen State", if the process closed and restarted "instantly" the windows would have closed.

Thirdly, I did describe specific situations with specific processes, you just chose to ignore my examples and blamed everything on malware.
I will post an example again:

Occasionally, Firefox runs upon some flash applet that is coded poorly or whatnot, and decides to become completely unfunctional (as in, you can CTRL-Tab to navigate through the tabs, but everything else is unclickable). Further clicking on the window results in it greying out and displaying an "End Task" window. Sometimes, this end task takes care of the problem and closes the program, other times, this end task does nothing short of just closing the end task window and act as if it performed the action. When that happens, I bring up task manager and go to the firefox process, and right click it to end the process. Sometimes this works, other times, the same thing happens with the end task window; It says, "Are you sure you want to end this process?" and I click Yes, and then the prompt disappears and task manager acts like it closed the process, I don't get a "The process could not be terminated." message box like when I try to terminate a critical windows service, nothing. The firefox window remains open in the background, greyed out and frozen.

Like I said in my original post, I'm not looking for troubleshooting, I am merely posting and asking about if anybody knows a surefire way to kill a process. Can we please stop focusing on malware or other random issues and stick to the question I had originally posted? The reason I posted these examples and scenarios is so that people could better understand some instances in which this happened.

READ: I AM NOT ASKING YOU TO TROUBLESHOOT FIREFOX OR ANY OTHER PROGRAM.

Monty Python

Well, I still think it is malware. And I don't know if this qualifies as "troubleshooting Firefox", but have your reinstalled Firefox ?

The failure of the firefox process to kill could be the fault of firefox just as easily as Task Manager. I suppose Ittybitty PM would be a good way to check it.

But okay, I get your question and will try real hard to stay on topic. Lemme do some research & get back....

chaosphoenix

Yes, I have reinstalled firefox, heck I have even gone as far as a complete reimage from the OEM backup disk.

chaosphoenix

What strikes me odd in all of these problems is, when the process is running fine and everything, killing the process does exactly as it should, the process ends, all the windows close, etc. The moment anything crashes, whether it be firefox, trillian, or anything. End Task and End Process do next to nothing.

meez

Got exactly the same problem....Firefox and Flash, or rather Flash that uses my webcam, hangs and can't be killed anymore.
I think it has something to do with a handle the cam driver still holds. Whatever it is though I want Vista to kill the process regardless of open handles or things that could happen (event though the system crashes afterwards)...that's one of the basic functions an OS should provide..(Not some new images and fancy new window frames)
I thought the servicepack 1 (beta) might help but it didn't.

jcgriff2

I have found that the "kill" command will work only when the 3 levels of the executable's "recovery status" are set to "Take No Action". The 3 levels are First Failure, Second Failure, and Subsequent Failures. If any of these are set to "restart" - that is what will happen.

bhahar84

Hi chaosphoenix!!



Can you try to right click on the processes that you can't kill, and choose the options "End Process Tree". Then try to End Process again, perhaps this would help. You might want to give it a try

nickster_uk

Have you tried running the taskkill command with switches?

/f is used to forcibly close the process.
/t closes any child processes as well.

At your command prompt, type taskkill /? for more info/examples.

In all honesty though, it does seem like its not a problem with Vista itself as the commands work without a problem on my system and others. Malware could be an issue but you're sure it's not so that leaves a damaged registry or profile, permissions issue or a third party program confliction.

Are you able to successfully kill the processes using the default admin account?

chaosphoenix

Like I said, I find it odd. I have tried trying to kill it with the switches. As far as I'm concerned, there is nothing wrong with Vista's kill commands. It just seems like to me, the process is locked up in an I/O operation or something, or something of that sort, and it wont terminate, because if the process is running without a problem, and I want to kill it, it closes perfectly fine. It hasn't always not worked.. sometimes, when firefox crashes, I can kill the process just fine. Other times, it won't kill. I'm just.. a little puzzled. There must be something that's latched on, thats not letting windows kill the process, although I would have expected the force switch to take care of that.. apparently not.

chaosphoenix

Ok, I just tried it. I had uTorrent running fine, and i just randomly decided to kill the process. Its CPU usage dropped to 0, and its memory allocation dropped a few hundred kb, the system tray icon dissapeared, but the process stayed there. I tried to take it out with taskkill in administrative command prompt with the /f switch and this is what I got "The process 'uTorrent.exe' with PID 5448 could not be terminated. Reason: There is no running instance of the task." It still appears in task manager, I can't start uTorrent again because it tells me "It seems uTorrent is already running, please close all processes and try again." I'm just going to leave my computer as is, not shutting down, and lets just try everything we can to kill this process. Anyone got ideas?

Ive tried:
Taskmanager: end process and end process tree
CMD: taskkill

//edit
I apologize for the P2P reference, but this is literally the only scenario I can replicate, the firefox crashes and etc happen randomly, and I don't know how to go about recreating them.

chaosphoenix

Not sure if this is relevant to me terminating uTorrent, but all of my IO operations are happening.. really weirdly and laggy. I'm installing a game right now, and the installer was stuck on one file.. for the longest time.. at 27%, and all of a sudden, it goes all the way to 95%. When I try to open word documents, word just completely locks up for a while.. and then loads as if nothing was wrong. None of this happened before I tried to terminate the uTorrent process.

JohnthePilot

If this problem is happening because of uTorrent then I'm afarid we can't help you. I'm going to close this thead but if you feel that uTorrent is not the problem send me a PM and I'll reopen it.