marcella

I want to try the 64bit version of Vista before committing to a permanent change from 32. I don't want to dual boot. Rather than asking you how, I'm hoping you can instead just react to what I think might work. I would appreciate any insights. I'm using Vista Business 32bit (upgrade, retail) using 26gb hd space, w/apps.

I have downloads of all 64bit drivers ready on CD and floppy for nVidia 590 chipset, 7600GT /oc, etc. I also purchased 64bit option DVD from MS for $10 that relies on the same installation key as current install.

This is my planned approach:

1. Physically disconnect my Vista 32bit HD
2. Remove 2gb RAM to avoid 4gb 64 install issues.
3. Boot the 64bit DVD and point setup to a separate drive (I have an older Raptor 36gb) reformatted with NTFS.
4. Say "no" to entering the key during setup, and uncheck Auto Activation box.
5. Complete basic install, including all 64 bit drivers, but without adding programs.
6. Reinstall 2gb and check for stability w/4gb total. Remove 2gb again, just in case.
7. Reboot Vista 64 DVD, and "upgrade" with key, but without Auto Activate box checked.
8 . Reinstall 2gb RAM and test out all critical applications during unactivated "trial period".
9. If satisfied, Activate 64 by phone, as replacement of 32. if not-step 12.
10. Disconnect 64 drive, connect 32 drive, boot into Bootit NG, and delete 32 version. .
11. Reconnect 64 drive, boot into 64, re-use old 32 bit drive for data, etc.
12. If not satisfied, delete 64 and reconnect 32.

Will this work? I'm assuming the "double install" that works to get a clean install of 32bit with an upgrade version DVD will work as well with 64 bit.

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Windows Vista Experience CPU 5.4 Mem 5.9 Graphics 5.9 Game Graphics 5.4 Disk 5.7

marcella

I went ahead with this this morning. Booting from the dvd offered only a clean install so I did not have to do the repeat install trick. All went well with a glitch free install. When I added back the extra 2gb though I got a BSOD on all bootups (I thought the issue with V64 and 4gb was with installing, not running!).

Updating the Crosshair BIOS to 904 solved that completely. Now running fine with all 4gb seen. Windows Experience Index dropped from 5.5 to 5.4 on the processor, with no change in BIOS settings - don't know why or really care - just curious.

The only problem I've encountered is that PCTools Spy Doctor will not install on Vista 64. Displays message that it is incompatible. Too bad, it is one o the best anti-spy apps. I'll live with it. All other 32 bit apps are automatically installed into an separate x86 Programs folder.

I have a 30 trial period in which to experiment. If all OK, I'll delete 32 bit and activate 64 with same key.

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Windows Vista Experience CPU 5.4 Mem 5.9 Graphics 5.9 Game Graphics 5.4 Disk 5.7

Monty Python

Not sure, but I've read that the 4 Gbyte issue can be fixed by m/b BIOS update. Have you looked into this ?

Does the command shell offer to "Run As" 32-bit on the spyware programs ?

I used to run Ad-Aware and Spybot both on my and my customer's computers, but lately I've been running Windows Defender for AS and Kaspersky for AV. My point is that WinDefender is surprisingly effective and is very well integrated.

marcella

Yes, I did update my BIOs to 904 and that resolved that 4gb issue (see my second post). I'm running NIS2008 without problems under 64 or 32 bit, with Defender also running (they get along fine). Of course, Windows Firewall is disabled. The "Run as" option has nothing to work with as Spy Doctor will not install under V64. PCTools says it will consider making a V64 version only if demand warrants. For now, I use it in 32 bit mode on my XP Pro notebook. One other glitch that has come to light is Terabyte's Image for Windows which I use a lot. It now locks up when Phyllock kicks in. Cannot get any tech. support until after the holidays. Image for DOS works of course.

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Windows Vista Experience CPU 5.4 Mem 5.9 Graphics 5.9 Game Graphics 5.4 Disk 5.7

marcella

Here is an update that may be useful to others making this switch:

1) One big lesson learned - before doing any of the steps in my original post, go into vista 32 bit Computer properties, and write down the Product ID listed for the activation. If you have this in hand, then you will have less hassles in transferring your license from 32 bit to 64 bit. I now keep a notebook file on another HD with my Product Key and my Product ID.
2) Vista 64 bit DVD cannot be run as an upgrade from within Vista 32 bit. I knew that but did not realize the consequences. Disconnecting my 32 bit system HD protected it from boot manager complications as intended.
3) Vista 64 will only install as a clean install, initially.
4) Vista 64 clean installs will not activate using the original 32bit Product Key, which is usable only for upgrade versions.
5) Therefore, I did have to follow through as originally planned by installing V64 a second time, but from within V64 to force it to be an upgrade. Reinstalling via bootup of the v64 DVD would have wiped out the existing clean install, with all the activated apps, etc.
6) My first attempt failed with a BSOD because I FORGOT TO DROP BACK TO 2GB RAM again. Isn't it perverse that in order to obtain V64's benefit of maximum RAM, you have to uninstall that RAM it first?
7) Removing the extra 2gb allowed the upgrade installation to go to the "preparing to start up for the first time" final step. It failed, forcing a rollback. The culprit? - NIS 2008 which quite naturally sees wholesale system file changes as a giant virus. Turning off active protection does not survive the reboots, so one must uninstall NIS2008 and use the Norton Removal Tool to get rid of all traces. MS also advised me to make a list of Windows Features that were turned on in the existing install (Control Panel|Programs), and to restore them after the upgrade.
8) Finally, my third upgrade install completed. It was not perfect - I had to re-tweak my desktop, reset a few folder options, etc.
9) I've made so many hardware changes since last January that I had to activate by telephone to get around the demand for buying another license. See point 1. Sheesh!

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Windows Vista Experience CPU 5.4 Mem 5.9 Graphics 5.9 Game Graphics 5.4 Disk 5.7

Monty Python

From what I gather (above) it appears your problem(s) are solved ?

Very nice documentation.

The idea/fact that you need to install 64-bit Vista with only 2 Gbytes, and add the other 2 Gbytes is important, as is the interferance of Norton (NIS2008).

All of this sounds like very good information, and it seems a constructive next step might be to publish an article. Perhaps a "How to" or a "Vista 64-bit Installation FAQ" or similar.

DoubleTap

on a side note Windows defender use to be "Giant Anti Spy" before Billy Gates purchased them. I use to run Giant Anti Spy and hands down the best anti-spyware software money could buy! something tells me Billy Boy figured that out which totaly shocks me! LOL. Win Defend is the same program. MS changed the GUI to fit the look and feel of windows. It still offers the best spyware protection available.

Just my 2cents

marcella

Thanks, and yes, this can be considered resolved. I don’t know about getting to an article, but here is a summary with adjusted steps.

The following approach assumes you have a licensed, activated version of Vista 32 bit installed and that it was created with an Upgrade, not Full version Vista DVD. If you have a Full version, you will not have to do the second install listed below in Step 15. If not, you cannot activate a clean install of V64 with an upgrade only product key transfer from v32. And, you cannot perform an upgrade to V64 from within V32 either since the setup files are all 64 bit and will not run under V32. There is no one step upgrade path between the two versions using an Upgrade DVD.

1. Unless you have Ultimate, obtain an optional Vista 64 DVD from MS for about $10.00 shipping.
2. Download any critical V64 drivers needed for installation of the new OS. In my case, I needed nVidia’s Vista 64 certified sataraid driver, nothing else. I found that video, sataide, flashcard readers and other drivers were not needed for the install, as Vista 64 has what it needs on the DVD. Save any drivers to a CD or USB thumbdrive. The old F6 floppy driver install method is obsolete with Vista.
3. You may need to get the latest BIOS too. In my case, my Asus Crosshair needed v904 to work with V64.
4. Right click on Computer, select Properties, and look at the bottom of the screen. Write down your Product ID obtained through activation (I’m assuming you have a valid, activated license!).
5. Back up your Vista 32bit OS partition, preferably via imaging software like Image for DOS or Acronix. I suggest labeling it V32___ to avoid future confusion. Plain file copying does not produce a restorable OS.
6. Set up a new partition, preferably on a different HD, of about 60gb or more, depending on your application requirements. Preferably, make it the first partition. I had two 36gb Raptors that I set up as RAID 0 to produce one 69gb partition just for the OS, not data. TIP: I should have re-ordered my Sata cables to make sure the RAID array would be Sata 0 and 1. It ended up being 3 and 4, and once set up, does not survive recabling. It doesn’t really matter – just one of those picky details for the obsessive, orderly mind.
7. Power down and disconnect your current V32 HD to keep your present OS from being altered in any way during V64 installation. I hate it when Vista’s boot management files get split between two hard drives or partitions. You likely cannot commit to V64 without personal testing on your machine, so you may need an undisturbed V32 to fall back on.
8. Also remove any RAM in excess of 2gb, temporarily. V64 will use more, of course, but it throws out BSOD’s during installs when more than 2gb is present.
9. Boot up your V64 DVD. Now, steps 10-12 may not be in the proper order, as I did not write down Vista’s actual sequence, and I don’t want to recheck by faking an install. Adjust as you encounter them.
10. Choose Clean Install (upgrade will be grayed out), but do not enter your V32 product key. Uncheck the automatically activate checkbox before continuing.
11. Watch for a small blue text line for the option of loading drivers, if you need to install RAID, etc. Point to your CD or USB path. Any compatible drivers will be listed in the setup window for your selection.
12. Point the setup to your new partition, allowing setup to format it.
13. Complete the installation, including the usual reboots along the way. Experiment with the new 64 bit install if you are unsure of whether to commit to it. Don’t bother to add back your extra RAM yet, because you will have to remove it again to do a successful reinstall. Do not install your anti-virus software. Stick with Windows firewall and Defender for the time being. I installed NIS2008 which is V64 compatible, but then found that it blocked my reinstall (step 15). Disabling it did not work as it kicked in during the installation reboots. I had to get rid of every trace using the free Norton Removal Tool to keep the next install from being seen as a giant virus.
14. Assuming you want to keep V64, do one more thing to ensure a successful upgrade. Go into Control Panel|Programs and look at “Turn Windows Features on or off”. Write down what is checked (running), then uncheck them. MS says some features can interfere with reinstalls.
15. Do the second install from within windows, to allow an actual “upgrade” to result. Be sure to select Upgrade, not another Clean install.
16. This time enter your old V32 upgrade Product key and allow or disallow automatic activation as you wish. You will have a trial period in the latter case. No drivers will be necessary this time since they are already present.
17. When finished, add back your extra RAM. After bootup, you should see V64 using all of it. Nice.
18. Turn your prior windows Features back on, and allow Windows update to occur, but not blindly via automatic update. There were 47 options presented to me, and I went with about 30 of them in small batches with multiple restore points, mostly involving security patches.
19. Install and activate all your applications. I had trouble with Spy doctor, which is currently V32 only. NIS2008 works well with V64 (it installs in the 64 bit Program Files, not the 32 bit folder. It also gets along fine with Defender. Be sure to disable the Windows Firewall if you use Norton’s or another firewall.
20. This is a good time to make another image, with all programs installed and activated. I called mine V64NoAct, meaning Vista not yet activated. Image for DOS takes about 12 minutes to backup and validate.
21. Activate when you need to. There are ways to extend the trial period that I won’t go into here. If you have any activation hassles, as I did given my history of reinstalls with news HD’s and a replacement motherboard, the previous Product ID that you wrote down will come in handy. I had not done that, and MS said I needed to buy a new license, and even claimed that my DVD part number was wrong. I called back in, got someone else who actually listened to me rather than cutting me off every other word, and was able to activate.
22. Make another image. I called mine V64Activ.

Note: The “double install” approach is how I and many others installed V32 a year ago with an Upgrade DVD. We did not want any leftover WXP clutter. MS tech support also recommended that I do that during a troubleshooting session to first get a clean install and then an “activatable” upgrade install over the clean. It is not cheating if MS says you can do it, and writes the code that makes it possible. As they said, people who lose their installed OS through HD failures, etc. have to have a route back to an upgrade-based reactivation.

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Windows Vista Experience CPU 5.4 Mem 5.9 Graphics 5.9 Game Graphics 5.4 Disk 5.7