spec_r

Hi all, anyone can share some advice on servers? Currently using NT V4 but there are some limitations where NT can't communicate/access with Windows small business server 2003. So intend to upgrade OS but don't know which is a better choices.
I've look through microsoft web there are currently:
Windows Server 2003
Windows Small Business 2003 R2
Windows Server 2008
Windows Small Business Server 2008

johnhook

spec_r,

So you're currently running NT4 and wish to upgrade to a newer MS Windows Server product, correct?

How many users and PCs will be connected to this network/server? Are you running any MS internet services such as IIS, Exchange, Proxy Server, etc? What if any enterprise or mission critical applications are you running? Do any of your applications require a back-end SQL database server? If so, what is the DB Server/Version?

What kind of hardware (make/model) of server do you have? How much/what kind of storage and memory is this server configured with?

I hate to answer a simple question with 20 MORE questions, but an informed suggestion about which MS Server OS to purchase really depends on your user-load, networking and application environment. I currently use SBS 2003 in a small office environment (7-10 PCs, 10-15 users, website, email, SQL-based enterprise application) and it works well for me running on a Dell PowerEdge Xeon server with 3-GB RAM and a 3-drive hardware RAID array. More demanding environments with more PCs, users, applications, etc. will require a different version of MS Server and higher-end hardware, storage, networking, etc.

- John

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spec_r

Hi John,

Currently we're using:
NT on IBM Server Xseries200 Storage: 100GB Memory: 1GB
&
SBS 2003 on IBM Xseries206 Storage: 36GB Memory: 1GB

For NT It's mainly for user's storage & share printer with less than 80 users & as for SBS 2003 it's for Microsoft Exchange Server. The reasons for an upgrade it's bcoz we want a main control to have full access on LAN but NT & SBS 2003 doesn't seems to communicate well.

We're not using IIS but critical applications are Oracle E-Business suite but it's in another server. We do have a backup server for Oracle too.

johnhook

spec_r,

While Windows NT is the kernel on which Windows 200, Windows XP Windows Server 2003 and even Vista have been designed around, I consider NT v4.0 to be a legacy OS. Windows SBS 2003 is designed for small business environments. Given the description of your hardware, applications and user-load, I'm not sure if SBS 2003 is the way to go. MS Server 2008 is fairly new - and I'd avoid ANY MS OS that doesn't have a LEAST 2 Service Packs released.

All of that said - I would migrate BOTH of your servers to MS Sever 2003 Enterprise Edition - making sure you purchase the approriate licenses (CALS) for the users and/or workstations using each server.

SBS 2003 probably doesn't communicate well with NT because so much has been implemented on Server 2003 and SBS 2003 since your version of NT was released. The entire domain handling has been replaced with Active Directory Services.

Before you make any final decisions - make sure your Oracle and other 3rd party applications are certified to run on MS Server 2003 Enterprise. If all of your apps are compatible with MS Server 2003 Enterprise - this is the way to go on BOTH of your servers. SBS is good - but can cause problems due to the bundled SharePoint services and imbedded version of MS SQL Server 2000.

Upgrading to such an environment might involve establishing a new Domain structure in the MS Server 2003 environment. The time involved will be worth it as both server will be able to share common domain attributes (user, computer, application security and policies).

I'm not bashing Server 2008 - but based on 18+ years of experience, I don't implement new MS Windows OSs until they've been around for at least 2 years or there are at least 2 Service Pack updates.

Hope this helps.

- John

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spec_r

Hi John,

Thanks for the information. Currently using SBS2003 it working fine.
If let's not include Server2008 does that means my options are left with Enterprise Edition or SBS2003R2?
Actually still quite confuse on the verisons? Can i say that SBS2003 & SBS2003R2 are the update verisons of W2k3Server that have additional features for Small biz?
And Enterprise edition is to support larger scale?

johnhook

spec_r,

MS SBS 2003 and MS Server 2003 are completely interoperable in terms of Active Directory and Domain features. SBS 2003 is basically a small business targeted verion of Server 2003 that's got some nice add-ons bundled into it like SharePoint services.

To compare Versions of SBS 2003:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserv...s/compare.mspx

Note on this page that a Microsoft recommends Server 2003 rather than SBS 2003 for "size of business = 75 or more".

To compare Versions of MS Server 2003:

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/win...s/compare.mspx

There is a rather complex matrix of features/capacity issues with all the versions of MS Server 2003. You may not need enterprise - Standard R2 might do. If you can get SBS 2003 R2 for less than MS Server 2003, it might be worth the cost savings and extra features as your basically on the cusp of recommended capacity for your company size.

Both of these product comparison link should clearly spell out all the differences between the various versions of ALL these 2003 products.

Be careful about SBS2003 in terms of any current or future apps you might need to run. Because SBS2003 comes bundled with MS SQL Server 2000 (used for the built-in SharePoint Services), there are some 3rd party APPS which DO NOT work on SBS 2003. I'm personally in such a bind now with the small medical practice where I manage IT. The medical software vendor pre-bundles their package with a limited licensed copy of MS SQL Server 2000 - which conflicts with the built-in SBS version of SQL 2000. That said, I'm going to have to dump SBS2003 and migrate to MS Sever 2003 (probably R2 Standard as Enterprise is probably overkill for my environment).

Again, SBS 2003 and MS Server 2003 are completely interoperable in terms of Active Directory and domain services so it really doesn't matter which one you purchase.

Hope this helps.

- John

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spec_r

Hi John,

Just to check if i migrate NTV4 to a new W2k3 or NTV4 to SBS2003, can W2k3 trust/communicate with SBS2003 & if i'm not wrong there can't be 2 SBS2003 Server running together right? What are some limitations we have to take note?
Thanks

johnhook

spec_r,

There ARE migration options from NT v4.0 to Server 2003 or SBS 2003 - but there are limitations due to the major changes between NT v4.X's domain structure and Server 2003's Active Directory environment. I know that the basic stuff like user accounts, permissions, profiles, etc should migrate over with no problem:

Check out:

http://support.microsoft.com/search/...8&mode=r&lsc=0

I stand corrected in my previous advice - you really SHOULD NOT use TWO SBS 2003 servers on the same network. SBS 2003 is a single, self-contained solution that's not meant to be scalable beyond it's limitations. You CAN put two SBS 2003 servers on the same network - but they can't be part of the same domain. It is, however, possible to integrate a single SBS 2003 server with other MS Server 2003 servers. The SBS 2003 becomes the domain controller by default.

Check out:

http://www.sbsrules.com/SBS3Rules.htm

- John

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spec_r

Hi John,

Earlier post you mention W2K3 & SBS2003 are interoperable? Does that means that they are able trust each other's domain? Sorry for the ignorance really new into all this ... thks

johnhook

spec_r,

Yes, you can have a single SBS 2003 server as your domain controller and other MS Server 2003 servers can be a part of that domain. What doesn't seem to work is having two SBS 2003 servers on the SAME domain. This is because SBS 2003 is designed to be a self-contained, turnkey domain server bundled with all the apps a small business should need.

Again, the SBS 2003 server MUST be the domain controller.

- John

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spec_r

I see, do you mind giving me some suggestion on below's few options:

Currently having 2 Servers WinNT & W2k3 SBS & needed to upgrade NT because of their limitations:

Currently using WinNT for:
- domain server
- streamserve application
- printer server
- file server

Currently using W2K3 SBS for:
- Veritas
- Microsoft Exchange
- XmediusFax
- DHCP
- MSOffice

Options considering:
1) Migrate Current NT into Current SBS W2k3 (Using just one server)
2) Purchase a new W2K3 & use it together with current SBS W2k3 (Because only PC in a domain can be running W2k3 SBS)
3) Purchase a new W2k3 or SBSW2k3 & migrate Current NT & Current SBS W2k3 into the new one (Using just one server)

Which one you think would be a better options in terms of price & solutions? Thanks for the help & advice

johnhook

spec_r,

I'm not sure what kind of hardware you're currently running (make/model/RAM/processor/storage space, etc). Knowing this would help me provide more sound advice. While I DO believe that you could potentially roll both of your server's functions, apps, etc. onto a single SBS or S2K3 server - I'm thinking you be looking at a larger, faster server to handle all of that. I'm thinking a Quad Core Xeon server with 4-8GB RAM and a hardware RAID 5 disk array. In this case, I would also recommend that you go with S2K3 Enterprise and forget about SBS 2003. I say this because SBS2003 really limits you in terms of future expansion.

If you aren't able to invest in a high-end single-server solution and wish to keep your existing hardware (not sure what that is), I would break the environment up onto two servers - the SBS 2003 as the domain controller running Exchange, DHCP, Print & File Server - and put the remaining APPS on the second server running S2K3 - making it a member of the SBS2003 domain established from migrating over your old NTv4 domain environment.

- John

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johnhook

spec_r,

One more thing - what are you currently running on SBS 2003? Is there some reason you picked SBS2003 instead of S2k3? Not sure if your ERP and Veritas apps use the SQL-Server database that's bundled into SBS2003. Are you using Sharepoint on SBS2003? Obviously you're using Exchange. What about MS Office? Is that installed on each client desktop or is it installed/shared from a fileserver?

Based on my personal application issues with SBS 2003 - I'm thinking that you should consider replacing it with S2K3 in either a single large server configuration as well as a 2-server configuration. I'm having concerns about the lack of expandability with SBS2003 and potential conflicts we may not know about down the road. Your environment/company size is right on the edge of being too large for SBS2003 anyways. If you expand or add employees, PCs, etc. You might be forced to replace SBS2003 anyways. It might make more sense in you're going through the science fair project of a complete domain/server migration - to eliminate SBS2003 now rather than be forced to do this later.

I personally LIKE SBS2003 and would keep it in my small office environment if it were not for the ridiculous S2K3 requirements of our medical software. In YOUR environment - I can easily see you outgrowing SBS2003's capacity and being force to migrate to an ALL S2K3 environment anyways.

- John

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spec_r

Hi John,

Hardware currently using:

WinNT on IBM Server Xseries200 P3, 1.13GHZ 512MB RAM Storage:100GB
SBS2003 on IBM Server Xseries206 P4, 2.8GHZ 1GB RAM Storage: 36GB

Actually we don't really need a fast server bcoz the actual server usuage are not so high & we need it to provide administration & MS Exchange + the list below:

Currently using WinNT for:
- domain server
- streamserve application
- printer server
- file server

Currently using W2K3 SBS for:
- Veritas
- Microsoft Exchange
- XmediusFax
- DHCP

The main purpose is to allow communication & share domain between 2 compatiable OS like SBS2003 & W2K3 to trust each other' bcoz of NT limitations.

spec_r

Hi John,

SBS2003 was already here when i join. I think reasons we are using SBS2003 bcoz there's a built in Exchange Mail server. The MS office are not shared among users. As for our Oracle ERP they are in another server manage by IBM AIX OS so i guess it was not bundle with SBS2003 SQL-Server Database?

You are right having to consider the growing size of the company, we don't mind getting W2K3 and adding an additional Exchange server too. Our size is about around 80 users +/- currently.

Thanks