[resolved] Low memory problems, KRC Forum sent me

LeicaM13 · 07-11-2005, 03:21 PM

Thanks for your help. I started out in the KRC forum with low memory problems. I've sent HJT log files and have been told it is clean. I have done a RAM check to see if my RAM is good. It said it was good. I've performed Spybot, AdAware and Pest Patrol. I even uninstalled Norton SystemWorks and antivirus while installing AVG free to maintain virus protection. Getting rid of the Norton improved speed and I was able to open QuickBooks and Photoshop which I couldn't do before and was the reason I seeked help at KRC forum. I am still getting low memory messages however not as often since I've uninstalled Norton.

Please advise,

Thanks

LeicaM13

Geekgirl · 07-11-2005, 09:38 PM

Hello LeicaM13

How much memory is installed on your system?
What is the Make/model of your computer ?

Adding more memory is the best way to speed up your system

Stu_computer · 07-12-2005, 05:17 AM

Okay, I went to KRC and looked at your post there and see the problem. (sticks out like a sore thumb

)

You have 256Meg of ram which is plenty for Win9x to work with.

Here's the clue to your problem....

However I continue to have low memory problems. I get repeated low memory messages with QuickBooks Pro. Also my attempt to run Adobe Photoshop resulted in an error message stating the Virtual Memory allocation is too low. A while back I changed the Virtual Memory to 15 megs. That worked at the time just fine. My HD is a 16 gig'er.

and here ...

The disc it said was full was my d drive which is my swap file. Like I said above, it only has 15 megs of Ram attributed to it. Does this mean my programs are opening to the d drive? Explorer indicates my Win386.swp at 14,336KB. I have no idea what this file is or if its important.

Setting it to a value less than your installed Ram? yikes!

I don't see anything saying why you chose D drive (Do you have 2 physical hd's in your computer, or is this a partition?). anyway...

Okay, here it is...

Cause: Setting virtual memory too low results in "out of memory" errors (or worse) when demand exceeds the set limit.

Answer: Let win98 manage virtual memory. For normal use it does this quite okay.

But if you feel you really have to tweak it this is how...

For optimum performance set the minimum as 2.5 times your RAM and DON'T set a maximum value.
By setting only minimum size you'll get all of the benefits but none of the risks.

In your case, you have 256Meg of ram so 2.5 x 256 = 640 Minimum
This will allocate 640 Meg of your hard drive for swap file. (Use C drive)

So defrag first, make the change and reboot. (so you have one nice block of swap file instead of fragmented)

fyi, virtual memory is a method used to augment the system memory (ram) by temporarily putting data from ram onto the hd (swapping) so it can use that part of ram to perform some other task, then it swaps the data back into ram.

--------------------------------------
virtual memory settings:
1. Right-click the My Computer icon on your desktop, click Properties.
2. Click the Performance tab.
3. Click Virtual Memory, and then click Let me specify my own virtual memory settings.
4. Click the hard disk you want for virtual memory, then select the minimum and maximum amounts of virtual memory.
5. Click OK, click OK, and then restart your computer.

To restore original settings:
1. same as above.
2. same as above.
3. click Let Windows manage my virtual memory settings
4. same as above.

LeicaM13 · 07-12-2005, 09:35 AM

Thanks Stu,

Why do I have my HD partitioned then? Rather do I need a d drive if I'm using the C drive to house my swap file? I'm not too concerned over 15 megs so I'd just leave it alone. Should maximum setting be 'no maximum' or the largest number it defaults to matching the HD size?

LeicaM13

**ReeKorl** · 07-12-2005, 10:23 AM

Are you storing ANYTHING else on the D drive? If you are using this purely as a swap drive, and it's on the same physical drive as the C (ie they are just two partitions on the sam drive) then I don't think you're going to see and performance boost by doing this.

If you're using the D drive as storage for other things, then you'll need to make sure you have enough space on there to house the swap file. Ideally at least 1.5x your available RAM, but going for larger can't really harm things.

15MB is WAY too small for a swap file. If you have a swap file available for use, then Windows will use it even if it doesn't need to. 15MB would be too small for almost all programs these days. Either turn off the swap file (not recommended considering the amount of RAM you have, but even so you might actually see a performance boost if you do) or set it to larger. Much larger than what it is already.

To expand on what Stu said, here's what the swap file (or 'page' file) does. Your computer can ONLY run programs which are stored in RAM at that second. If you already have 250MB of your RAM used up and you need to run a 25MB program, there isn't enough space, so Windows temporarily moves something currently in RAM but not being used much out, and into the swap file. To do this, it would need to move at least 19MB out of RAM and into the swap file - with your current settings it wouldn't be able to run that program at all unless you closed something else, as you don't have 19MB to spare in your swap file, only 15MB. With such a small page file, you will be experiencing horrific slowdowns - to be honest, I'm surprised the system is running at all. Make sure you have enough space for that swap file on the drive you select, and increase it quick!

Stu_computer · 07-12-2005, 11:54 AM

ReeKorl summed it up nicely, if you just have the one physical hard drive there's no gain in putting the swap on a seperate partition-just making windows and the drive work harder.

Nothing wrong with having another partition avaiable, handy for storing your personal files actually-much easier to sort thru that than the C drive looking for stuff.

Now, if you had a 2nd hd and put the swap file in the first partition by itself then their may be some improvement-if it's a fast drive.

As ReeKorl pointed out, 1.5 times is considered the lowest reasonable value for a minimun setting.
Now, if you were to let windows manage it, (it uses a 1.5 default value) when it approaches it's default it 'anticipates a need for more space' and starts to add more space to the file.
Whereas if you manage it youself with 1.5 times then it will use the whole minimum size before growing. Either way, it has to find that extra space and ends up fragmenting.

That's why 2.5 is a good optimum setting, applications seldom put that kind of demand on the swap file.

As for maximum at 'the largest number it defaults to matching the HD size?' yep.

Tell us in a few days about the difference your experiencing.

LeicaM13 · 07-12-2005, 01:25 PM

Bear with me as I slowly make changes. Because Windows does a great job of scaring the hell out of you when you attempt to do something, threatening to blame me if my computer never works again if I specify my own settings.

So that said this is what it reads.

Control panel/system/performance/virtual memory/Let me specify my own virtual memory settings.

Hard disk: C:\ 10680MB Free Minimum: 0 Maximum: 10680
Hard disk D:\ 14MB Free Minimum: 0 Maximum 14

Should I change my D drive, for that matter can I change my D drive size? Or should I allocate 640 minimum virtual memory on my C drive? and leave the Maximum at 10680?

Thanks

Stu_computer · 07-12-2005, 10:43 PM

Sure, ask all the questions you like.

According to what you have here, your C drive has over 10gig of free space right now.

The D drive only has 14 Meg of free space available, thats it-nothing more.
The actual d drive could be a 60 gigger for all I know, but only 14Meg of it is available to use right now.

To put this in perspective you could fit 2, maybe 3, mp3 music files on your d drive and it will be full.

----------------------------------
Select C drive, click in minimum box, type 640, click Okay

It will look like this...

Let me specify my own virtual memory settings.

Hard disk: C:\ 10680MB Free
Minimum: 640
Maximum: 10680

Reboot, when you check it again it will look like this...

Let me specify my own virtual memory settings.

Hard disk: C:\ 10680MB Free
Minimum: 640
Maximum: No maximum

----------------------------------

Any use of chicken bones or prayer beads is optional and at your discretion.

.

LeicaM13 · 07-15-2005, 09:40 AM

A big thanks to all who contributed to this thread. Assigned virtual memory as suggested. No problems for the last few days. I also think removing Norton Systemworks and antivirus went a long way to helping the memory problems.

We can close this thread.

LeicaM13

**ReeKorl** · 07-15-2005, 09:41 AM

Glad you got the problems sorted!

07-11-2005, 03:21 PM	#1 (permalink)
LeicaM13 Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 26 OS: Win98SE	Low memory problems, KRC Forum sent me Thanks for your help. I started out in the KRC forum with low memory problems. I've sent HJT log files and have been told it is clean. I have done a RAM check to see if my RAM is good. It said it was good. I've performed Spybot, AdAware and Pest Patrol. I even uninstalled Norton SystemWorks and antivirus while installing AVG free to maintain virus protection. Getting rid of the Norton improved speed and I was able to open QuickBooks and Photoshop which I couldn't do before and was the reason I seeked help at KRC forum. I am still getting low memory messages however not as often since I've uninstalled Norton. Please advise, Thanks LeicaM13

07-11-2005, 09:38 PM	#2 (permalink)
Geekgirl Assistant Manager, Microsoft Support Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Six-burgh, Pennsylvania Posts: 14,164 OS: XP Home SP3/XP Pro SP3/Vista Ultimate SP2/Windows 7 Professional	Hello LeicaM13 How much memory is installed on your system? What is the Make/model of your computer ? Adding more memory is the best way to speed up your system __________________ Compare NOD32 to your current antivirus and anti-spyware solution, HERE How to back up and restore the registry in Windows XP and Windows Vista Or Windows 7 How to back up and restore the registry in Windows 98/ ME / NT 4.0 / 2000 I DO NOT ACCEPT EMAILS AND WILL NOT REPLY TO THEM !!!!! TSF DOES NOT SUPPORT ASSISTANCE THROUGH EMAIL OR PRIVATE MESSAGES, PLEASE KEEP ALL QUESTIONS IN THE OPEN FORUM *The Pittsburgh Steelers - 6 X Superbowl Champions !!!!!!!* *The Pittsburgh Penguins - 2009 Stanley Cup Champions !!!!!!!*

07-12-2005, 09:35 AM	#4 (permalink)
LeicaM13 Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 26 OS: Win98SE	One more question Thanks Stu, Why do I have my HD partitioned then? Rather do I need a d drive if I'm using the C drive to house my swap file? I'm not too concerned over 15 megs so I'd just leave it alone. Should maximum setting be 'no maximum' or the largest number it defaults to matching the HD size? LeicaM13

07-12-2005, 10:23 AM	#5 (permalink)
ReeKorl Superhuman Computer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: 6th Circle, The City of Dis, Hell Posts: 1,610 OS: WinXP Pro SP2 My System	Are you storing ANYTHING else on the D drive? If you are using this purely as a swap drive, and it's on the same physical drive as the C (ie they are just two partitions on the sam drive) then I don't think you're going to see and performance boost by doing this. If you're using the D drive as storage for other things, then you'll need to make sure you have enough space on there to house the swap file. Ideally at least 1.5x your available RAM, but going for larger can't really harm things. 15MB is WAY too small for a swap file. If you have a swap file available for use, then Windows will use it even if it doesn't need to. 15MB would be too small for almost all programs these days. Either turn off the swap file (not recommended considering the amount of RAM you have, but even so you might actually see a performance boost if you do) or set it to larger. Much larger than what it is already. To expand on what Stu said, here's what the swap file (or 'page' file) does. Your computer can ONLY run programs which are stored in RAM at that second. If you already have 250MB of your RAM used up and you need to run a 25MB program, there isn't enough space, so Windows temporarily moves something currently in RAM but not being used much out, and into the swap file. To do this, it would need to move at least 19MB out of RAM and into the swap file - with your current settings it wouldn't be able to run that program at all unless you closed something else, as you don't have 19MB to spare in your swap file, only 15MB. With such a small page file, you will be experiencing horrific slowdowns - to be honest, I'm surprised the system is running at all. Make sure you have enough space for that swap file on the drive you select, and increase it quick! __________________ "Sorry, the number you have dialled is imaginary. Please rotate dial by 90 degrees and try again."

07-12-2005, 01:25 PM	#7 (permalink)
LeicaM13 Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 26 OS: Win98SE	Just making sure here Bear with me as I slowly make changes. Because Windows does a great job of scaring the hell out of you when you attempt to do something, threatening to blame me if my computer never works again if I specify my own settings. So that said this is what it reads. Control panel/system/performance/virtual memory/Let me specify my own virtual memory settings. Hard disk: C:\ 10680MB Free Minimum: 0 Maximum: 10680 Hard disk D:\ 14MB Free Minimum: 0 Maximum 14 Should I change my D drive, for that matter can I change my D drive size? Or should I allocate 640 minimum virtual memory on my C drive? and leave the Maximum at 10680? Thanks

07-12-2005, 05:17 AM	#3 (permalink)
Stu_computer Tech Hardware Team Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,459 OS: Windows	Okay, I went to KRC and looked at your post there and see the problem. (sticks out like a sore thumb ) You have 256Meg of ram which is plenty for Win9x to work with. Here's the clue to your problem.... However I continue to have low memory problems. I get repeated low memory messages with QuickBooks Pro. Also my attempt to run Adobe Photoshop resulted in an error message stating the Virtual Memory allocation is too low. A while back I changed the Virtual Memory to 15 megs. That worked at the time just fine. My HD is a 16 gig'er. and here ... The disc it said was full was my d drive which is my swap file. Like I said above, it only has 15 megs of Ram attributed to it. Does this mean my programs are opening to the d drive? Explorer indicates my Win386.swp at 14,336KB. I have no idea what this file is or if its important. Setting it to a value less than your installed Ram? yikes! I don't see anything saying why you chose D drive (Do you have 2 physical hd's in your computer, or is this a partition?). anyway... Okay, here it is... Cause: Setting virtual memory too low results in "out of memory" errors (or worse) when demand exceeds the set limit. Answer: Let win98 manage virtual memory. For normal use it does this quite okay. But if you feel you really have to tweak it this is how... For optimum performance set the minimum as 2.5 times your RAM and DON'T set a maximum value. By setting only minimum size you'll get all of the benefits but none of the risks. In your case, you have 256Meg of ram so 2.5 x 256 = 640 Minimum This will allocate 640 Meg of your hard drive for swap file. (Use C drive) So defrag first, make the change and reboot. (so you have one nice block of swap file instead of fragmented) fyi, virtual memory is a method used to augment the system memory (ram) by temporarily putting data from ram onto the hd (swapping) so it can use that part of ram to perform some other task, then it swaps the data back into ram. -------------------------------------- virtual memory settings: 1. Right-click the My Computer icon on your desktop, click Properties. 2. Click the Performance tab. 3. Click Virtual Memory, and then click Let me specify my own virtual memory settings. 4. Click the hard disk you want for virtual memory, then select the minimum and maximum amounts of virtual memory. 5. Click OK, click OK, and then restart your computer. To restore original settings: 1. same as above. 2. same as above. 3. click Let Windows manage my virtual memory settings 4. same as above.

07-12-2005, 11:54 AM	#6 (permalink)
Stu_computer Tech Hardware Team Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,459 OS: Windows	ReeKorl summed it up nicely, if you just have the one physical hard drive there's no gain in putting the swap on a seperate partition-just making windows and the drive work harder. Nothing wrong with having another partition avaiable, handy for storing your personal files actually-much easier to sort thru that than the C drive looking for stuff. Now, if you had a 2nd hd and put the swap file in the first partition by itself then their may be some improvement-if it's a fast drive. As ReeKorl pointed out, 1.5 times is considered the lowest reasonable value for a minimun setting. Now, if you were to let windows manage it, (it uses a 1.5 default value) when it approaches it's default it 'anticipates a need for more space' and starts to add more space to the file. Whereas if you manage it youself with 1.5 times then it will use the whole minimum size before growing. Either way, it has to find that extra space and ends up fragmenting. That's why 2.5 is a good optimum setting, applications seldom put that kind of demand on the swap file. As for maximum at 'the largest number it defaults to matching the HD size?' yep. Tell us in a few days about the difference your experiencing.

07-12-2005, 10:43 PM	#8 (permalink)
Stu_computer Tech Hardware Team Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,459 OS: Windows	Sure, ask all the questions you like. According to what you have here, your C drive has over 10gig of free space right now. The D drive only has 14 Meg of free space available, thats it-nothing more. The actual d drive could be a 60 gigger for all I know, but only 14Meg of it is available to use right now. To put this in perspective you could fit 2, maybe 3, mp3 music files on your d drive and it will be full. ---------------------------------- Select C drive, click in minimum box, type 640, click Okay It will look like this... Let me specify my own virtual memory settings. Hard disk: C:\ 10680MB Free Minimum: 640 Maximum: 10680 Reboot, when you check it again it will look like this... Let me specify my own virtual memory settings. Hard disk: C:\ 10680MB Free Minimum: 640 Maximum: No maximum ---------------------------------- Any use of chicken bones or prayer beads is optional and at your discretion. .

07-15-2005, 09:40 AM	#9 (permalink)
LeicaM13 Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 26 OS: Win98SE	Computer is happy now A big thanks to all who contributed to this thread. Assigned virtual memory as suggested. No problems for the last few days. I also think removing Norton Systemworks and antivirus went a long way to helping the memory problems. We can close this thread. LeicaM13

07-15-2005, 09:41 AM	#10 (permalink)
ReeKorl Superhuman Computer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: 6th Circle, The City of Dis, Hell Posts: 1,610 OS: WinXP Pro SP2 My System	Glad you got the problems sorted! __________________ "Sorry, the number you have dialled is imaginary. Please rotate dial by 90 degrees and try again."