Allen Lilly

Hi

I hope someone can help.

I have an old PIII machine running Windows Millenium Edition. Yes, it's ancient, but it's fine for just sitting in the corner playing music.

I lent it to my brother in law who 'helpfully' upgraded it to WinXP (SP2) using some restore discs he has. The problem is that the XP discs had already been installed on his main machine and Windows has some way of knowing whether they have been used before. Apparently there was some kind of 30 day countdown to register with Microsoft then it locks you out.

I have now got a useless PC back from him. The 30 days has expired. The machine says it can't find an operating system on startup.

I have (legitimate) install discs for ME that I want to install, but apparently the XP lockout won't let the machine look at the DVD (D:) drive, so they won't run.

The only thing I can do is 'boot' from the ME install discs (a floppy in A: and a DVD in D:). It gives me a drive read error and lets me escape to DOS (with the a: drive active) . The only thing I can do then is run DOS on the a: (floppy) drive. It won't let change me drive to C: or D:

I'm thinking that I will have to somehow corrupt the OS install before I can reinstall the ME. Big magnet perhaps? I don't care about the data on the machine.

There's got to be a better way - does anyone know what it is ?

TIA

manic

If the hdd is ok, you will need to wipe the drive. Go here..
http://www.killdisk.com/downloadfree.htm
Read directions, you will have to set bios to boot to floppy first, then
select cd/dvd for second. Then try to install me again...

blah789

You might want to create another bootable Me floppy. Could be a corrupt disk (after 9 years I wouldn't be surprised if it lost some of its ability to store magnetic data). Go to bootdisk.com and grab an Me image (hopefully you have another computer with a floppy drive to do this with).
Is the Me CD bootable? Go into the BIOS (press Del F2 F10 or whatever it tells you to press to enter setup when you're booting), set the boot order so that the computer boots from the CD or DVD first, floppy second, then hard drive last, save the settings (people always forget that step), pop in the CD, and see if it will boot.

Allen Lilly

Hi both

thanks for these pointers

I do have another machine, but it doesn't have a floppy drive. I just took a floppy disc to the internet cafe, but I couldn't get either killdisc's bootable floppy disc creator or bootdisk's Me bootdisc to sucessfully write to it (despite numerous reformattings, quick and bootable and the fact that it was working fine with userdata). I guess I'll try again with another floppy tomorrow.



Back at the problem machine:

If I boot the machine without any discs in, I just get the manufacturers's splash screen, followed by a black screen saying "Operating system not found".

If I tap the F2 key while the manufacturer's splash screen is showing, I can get to the BIOS settings. Under the boot menu there are three entries
"removable devices", "hard drive" and "CD/DVD drive" (no mention of a sequence). "Removable devices" is highlighted. If I change it to boot from
the CD drive (then F10 to save and exit), it restarts, but it seems that my changes have not been saved. It still tries to grab at the a: drive while
the manufacturer's splashscreen is showing. The BIOS boot menu still has "removable devices" highlighted.

I don't know whether the manufacturer's "system restore pack" CD is bootable, this is what's on it:
1.pcx 11.1 KB (11349 bytes) 01/04/2000 08:50:02
2.pcx 25.2 KB (25813 bytes) 01/04/2000 08:53:10
3.pcx 16.0 KB (16423 bytes) 01/04/2000 09:43:52
4.pcx 21.3 KB (21855 bytes) 01/04/2000 09:02:10
changelog.txt 0.2 KB (205 bytes) 27/04/2001 05:32:38
DIHELP.DAT 91.8 KB (93952 bytes) 11/09/2000 21:00:00
MOUSE.COM 36.8 KB (37681 bytes) 11/09/2000 21:00:00
PQER.EXE 28.9 KB (29582 bytes) 11/09/2000 21:00:00
PQER.OVL 857.8 KB (878353 bytes) 11/09/2000 21:00:00
pqer.pqg 12.3 KB (12596 bytes) 09/09/2000 06:51:08
Pqer.pqi 630.63 MB (661258240 bytes) 27/04/2001 05:21:28
PQER.RTC 0.5 KB (543 bytes) 04/01/2001 02:28:58
Restore.pcx 45.9 KB (47013 bytes) 05/01/2001 07:29:40

The floppy has an autoexec.bat on it.


For completeness :


1) If I boot up with the manufacturers "System Restore Pack" floppy and CD in the a: and D: drives, I get

CR101:not ready reading drive Y (btw - there is no drive Y)
Abort Retry Fail

a
types a .txt file called mainmenu.txt which sets out my options 1, 2 and 3
1 is to use Second Chance (a proprietary "restore to a known back up point" software) which isn't on the machine since its 'upgrade' to XP
2 Restore (to factory settings) - this types a file restore.txt "are you sure you want to continue etc", on selecting Y it cycles back to
CR101:not ready reading drive Y Abort Rety Fail
3 return to command prompt from which I can list, read and run the files on the a: drive (or on another floppy I put in it),

r just cycles the same drive Y error message

f returns "The disc in the CD/DVD-ROM drive is incorrect, replace and press a key."



2) Booting from just my "Emergency Boot Disc" (a floppy, made with the proprietarry Second Chance software way back), it types a txt file saying
Starting Windows ME Emergency boot, Powerquest Second Chance, then just gives an a: prompt. Again I can type and run the files on a:, but
typing c: returns Invalid Drive Specification.

blah789

Do this for testing. Insert the CD into another computer and see if you can boot into it, then exit.
Then start windows, create a folder on the desktop and try copying all the files from the CD to it. I just want to see if it copies without any errors. Go to into the event viewer (control panel, administrative tools, event viewer) and look under the system log and see if there are any cd-rom or atapi related errors.

For boot sequence. When removable device is highlighted, what happens when you press enter? Can you pick another device (say CD-ROM?) If so do it. Then press arrow down key and pick the second one to be floppy, and for the last one to be hard drive.

Allen Lilly

Hi

Yep, putting the CD into a good computer and restarting boots it from the CD (is that what is meant by 'booting into'?)

It leads to the same 3 option menu mentioned above (1 - use 'Second Chance' sw; 2- Restore to factory settings; 3 - Command prompt) (I wasn't inclined to select any of these in my good computer!)

Interestingly, this boot from CD procedure seems to allocate the optical drive as Y (something flashed up for a second indicating that the CD in drive Y was being used).


The only other difference is that in the good machine, the label on the CD is recognised :
Volume in Drive Y is WINME_UK18

...and in the problem machine it is not :
CDR101: Not ready reading drive Y
Abort Retry Fail
(user: a)
Volume in Drive Y has no label
Welcome to the System Restore Pack... here are your 3 choices, blah blah blah


No problems copying the files from the CD into a folder on the desktop of the good machine.

FWIW, I also have a backup of the Restore Pack CD (I made using copy CD in Nero about a year ago). All symptoms are identical using that CD




Duh, sorry - I have now figured out how to change the boot sequence in BIOS. Changing it to CD > Floppy > HDD doesn't help much.

You can hear the machine checking the optical drive before the floppy. But nothing significantly different results. You still end up with :
CDR101: Not ready reading drive Y
Abort Retry Fail
(user: a)
Volume in Drive Y has no label
Welcome to the System Restore Pack... here are your 3 choices, blah blah blah

blah789

If the CD itself seems good (when copied from another computer), my only guess left would be the CD-ROM drive. Open the case and make sure the cables connections (both cable and data) are not loose. Consider using a different cable. If all else fails, try using a different CD-ROM drive (for example swap it from another computer). A visual guide here:
http://www.fonerbooks.com/r_cd.htm
In the pics it's not clear, but I think they're using a 40-wire cable. If you can use an 80-wire or a round cable that would be better. Here's pics for illustration http://www.mikeshardware.com/pics/ide8040pin.jpg round cable: http://www.modsynergy.com/Modsynergy...s/Memorex8.jpg
As always, before opening the computer case, be sure to turn everything off, and discharge yourself from static by touching the back of the case. Even a small spark could destroy internal components.

Allen Lilly

Hmm, actually they are both laptops - I'll have a look around but won't be able to do very much with the HW there.

FWIW, BIOS shows the Internal DVD/CD ROM as 'Installed'.

Is it not likely to be some clever disabling by MS (as DRM punishment for the questionable XP install)?

Typing "c:" at the a: prompt returns 'Invalid Drive Specification' (c: is the hdd).

wrench97

No Windows will always boot and give you network connectivity to get to MS and buy a new license you can't much else but it won't lock the hard drive, this almost sounds like a failing hard drive to me.

blah789

I was wondering during boot, does it say the CD-ROM drive was assigned a letter?
http://www.techgremlin.com/wp-conten...31screen10.png (last paragraph)
in the good machine? in the bad machine?
type the following commands at the prompt:
fdisk
and look around to see if your hard drive is properly detected. You'll probably see a non-DOS partition (which would be the NTFS partition) or no partition at all (if your brother removed everything). Either case would explain why typing C: doesn't work.

Do you have any bootable CD's? Windows XP install, Vista, anything. Just boot from it and see how far it gets.

Allen Lilly

Only as per the above where it is referred to as Drive Y. It doesn't get a colon, tho' !
The full text on booting from the CD in the good machine is:
Checking Boot CD ROM
Boot CD ROM type: Floppy Booting
booting from removable media
Volume in drive Y is WINME_UK18

This drive is provided by Oak Technology Inc <snip driver reference nos and copyrights>
Device name : MSC D000
Transfer mode: Programmed I/O
Number of Devices: 1

Then the 3 restore options.

Escaping to the command prompt (a:) and doing a "dir" command lists 12 files of total size 200,745b, with 1,136,640b free (remember we're running from a CD here - there is no floppy drive in the good machine).

Interestingly, even in the good machine, you can't switch to drive C: having booted from the CD (as per the bad machine:"Invalid Drive Specification"). It also seems to think that there is only 1 device.


Again, only the "Volume in drive Y has no label"

In the bad machine (where you have to have a floppy in a: as well as the CD in the optical drive (formerly d:) the floppy as seen as WIN_OPK and contains 15 files occupying 317,490b with 1,136,640b free.

running mscdex.exe from the a: prompt (with or without qualifiers) returns "MSCDEX Version 2.25 is already started"



running fdisk from the a: prompt in the bad machine just returns 'Bad command or file name'. The only executable files on a: are mscdex.exe and autoexec.bat, there's also something called zap_hdd.com which types "OEM_Name Partition Remover".


I can get hold of the XP restore discs my brother in law used.


I just reseated the optical drive - there aren't any wires - it just plugs straight into the motherboard. Couldn't reach the hdd.

It's time for bed here in Europe. Any other ideas welcome. I'll try and make bootable killdisk floppy tomorrow and maybe try and take out the hdd and shake it around a bit.

thanks for your kind attention so far :)

Allen Lilly

One last reprise: in the bad machine, typing "y:" at the a: prompt does change the active drive to y: (the optical drive), but then doing a "dir" or an "autoexec" on y: just gets you back to :
CDR101:Not ready reading drive Y
Abort Retry Fail

Allen Lilly

Hey again.

XP install discs don't boot.

I have today removed and reseated HDD to no avail. :(

I haven't been able to get to the internet cafe to make a bootable floppy. Will try in a day or two.

blah789

Genuine Windows XP won't boot? How about with the floppy in A: drive? It's probably going to say command not found or something. But when you're done loading DOS, type
Y:
(or whatever letter the CD-ROM is supposed to be). then
DIR
Do you see files being listed? If not and you're sure the XP CD is good, it's most likely the CD-ROM drive.
If you want to get adventurous, type
CD I386
WINNT
and see how far it gets you. (you can always remove the test XP at a later time)

Allen Lilly

They are OEM restore CDs for installing (Genuine) XP - apparently they should boot the straight into an install dialog. Without a floppy in, nothing happens - just the blank screen with "operating system not found" repeating with any keystroke.

With the XP install CD and the Me floppy, everything is the same as with the Me CD and Me floppy (that is: "CDR101: Not ready reading drive Y Abort Retry Fail"; a or f leading to an option to escape to comand prompt whereupon I can see the DIR the files on a: (the floppy) or change the drive to y: (presumably the CD drive), but then can't do a DIR on y: ("CDR101: Not ready reading drive Y Abort Retry Fail" again)

from y: prompt
cd i386 returns "CRD101: Not ready reading drive Y" again. The only marginal deviation is if I "Fail" out of that, it returns "Fail on INT 24 - i386"

WINNT gives the usual "CRD101: Not ready reading drive Y"

Sounds like the CD drive, doesn't it? Is it still worth trying to make a floppy boot/wipe disc ?

thanks

blah789

What model laptop do you have? You could find a replacement optical drive. I don't know if it's quite as modular in older models as with newer ones, but it's worth giving a shot.

OldGrayGary

Hi all

Allen - If you have a friend with a matching CD/DVD module, you could borrow it & use it to test if the drive bay itself is still working (it could either a faulty drive bay or a faulty optical drive that is causing the trouble). Many such modules are widely interchangeable through several model lines.

If the laptop is a Dell, I've seen used Dell CD/DVD drives available from time-to-time on the auction sites (the drives come complete with the plug-in Dell caddy). The prices run from about $8 to $30 or so.

For most modular caddies such as the old Dells had, it's fairly simple to replace the Slim CD/DVD drive = you disassemble the caddy, remove the failed CD/DVD drive, transfer any special attachments from it to the replacement drive, insert the replacement drive into the caddy, and reassemble the complete caddy module, and reinsert the whole works into the modular drive bay.

New notebook ("Slim") Sony/NEC "Optiarc" CD/DVD 'combo' drives are available from $35 (USD) [the combos read/write CDs, & only read DVDs]. New slim DVD burners are available from $50 (USD). I've used NewEgg.com's prices for these examples, there are also many fine vendors in Europe.

Best of luck
. . . Gary

Allen Lilly

hey

It's a A440 Laptop manufactured by FIC (http://www.fic.com.tw/) and rebadged "Tiny Computer".

It's pretty easy to remove/replace the drive. Maybe I'll look out for cheap equivalents.

I will also have another try at making a boot floppy when I get a chance.

thanks :)

Allen Lilly

Hi - back again.

I have now bought a 'spares' machine from ebay for a few bucks. Replacing the old DVD drive (albeit with a CD drive) has sorted me out nicely.

Me and XP now install fine. The HDD seems to be OK (according to a thorough ScanDisc).

Thanks for your help. :)

(Presumably there isn't much you can do with an old DVD drive that doesn't see discs ?)

wrench97

They come in handy as paperweights:) Good to hear you have it resolved.