Windows 3.1 as a Diagnostic Tool

ksagert · 05-18-2009, 09:17 AM

Hi Everyone (Im not sure if this is the proper area to be posting this, but I couldnt find anything else that could make sense)

I am attempting to create a Diagnostic Tool using Windows 3.1 being booted off of a Flash Drive. I was able to install windows, and it boots and runs fine. Two problems that I am currently experiencing is a HIMEM.SYS error and the fact that I cant see any of the other computers physical hard disks.

Im not too worried about HIMEM.SYS, as I think I may have found a fix.

But its a little hard when you are trying to do hard drive diagnostics from this tool, but cant see any of the other hard drives.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

-Kevin

**blah789** · 05-19-2009, 09:17 AM

May I ask what version of DOS you're running underneath that (out of curiosity - don't think it makes much of a difference)?
First I think your himem.sys error may stem from having huge amounts of memory. In the days of Windows 3.1, the high-end PC's had 16 MB of memory. If you have in the hundreds of MB, or GB's, you may have problem.
In fact Windows 98 won't load with more than 768MB of memory! It's documented in this Microsoft KB article:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/184447
I tried the workaround but still had trouble with various programs (even though I could start Windows 98 fine) until I installed my old memorys sticks back in the PC (512MB total).

The second things is prior to Windows 95, you had DOS 6.22, and the largest partitions it can create is 2GB (that's the limit for FAT16). I don't know what the largest hard drive it can see is, but if my memory is correct that's also limited to 2GB (based on an experience with FDISK from the DOS 6.22 floppy). Windows 95 can see up to 32GB hard drives, and Windows NT 4 only up to 8GB at setup time.
Needless to say, DOS 6.22 won't understand FAT32, NTFS, nor even drives over 128GB (that milestone marks 48-bit LBA).

Last thing I wonder about is how DOS or Windows 3.1 would react to a 64-bit or multicore processor.

If you really want to play with Windows 3.1, may I suggest using virtual machines or emulators? Microsoft Virtual PC doesn't work well with Windows 3.1, but you can try VirtualBox instead, or DOSBox (mostly for games, but it installs Windows 3.1 well).
http://www.virtualbox.org
http://www.dosbox.com

You can also try installing FreeDOS. Don't know how well it works with Windows 3.1 though, but it does support FAT32 (with possible problems with drives over 32GB - not thoroughly tested according to wikipedia). And this post relates to memory http://osdir.com/ml/emulators.freedo.../msg00086.html although it's kind of old (2005).

**TheOutcaste** · 05-20-2009, 04:33 AM

DOS 6.22 FDISK can only see 8025 MB, and can only create 2 GB partitions. Max 4 partitions, so max drive is 8GB.
Haven't tried it with more than 128 MiB of RAM, so I don't know if it would have an issue like Win95/Win98 do, but I suspect it will.

UBCD4Win or [/url=http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder]BartPE[/url] booting from a USB stick would be a far better tool.

@blah789 -- I'm running WFW 3.11 on VPC 2007 SP1 with no problems, 128 MB ram, 245 MB Swapfile on a 512 MB drive, with Win 3.11 on a 1 GB drive, with the DOS VM Additions installed. Still have to hit the Right ALT key to get the mouse out of the window.
Making this post from that system as a matter of fact.

Just curious, what problems did you have with Win 3.1?
I wouldn't think it would be too diffrent from WFW 3.11, but I haven't tried it since it lacks networking support.

Jerry

**blah789** · 05-20-2009, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOutcaste

DOS 6.22 FDISK can only see 8025 MB, and can only create 2 GB partitions. Max 4 partitions, so max drive is 8GB.

@blah789 -- I'm running WFW 3.11 on VPC 2007 SP1 with no problems, 128 MB ram, 245 MB Swapfile on a 512 MB drive, with Win 3.11 on a 1 GB drive, with the DOS VM Additions installed. Still have to hit the Right ALT key to get the mouse out of the window.
Making this post from that system as a matter of fact.

Just curious, what problems did you have with Win 3.1?
I wouldn't think it would be too diffrent from WFW 3.11, but I haven't tried it since it lacks networking support.

Jerry

I kept getting a kernel386 error message whenever in Windows 3.1. But that was a long time ago using VPC 2007 (without SP1). I was thinking of trying it again today perhaps to troubleshoot and see if I could paste back the exact error message. I used DOS 6.22 and Windows 3.1. I got the kernel386 error message when I tried the S3 driver and set the display to 800x600, 24-bit. The problem went away when I went back to 16-bit, 1024x768. I went back to 24-bit again and haven't seen the message again.
I wonder if Microsoft tweaked VPC when going to SP1 because I was getting the kernel386 message rather often when on VPC without SP1. In some cases it even exited Windows.
I might look this over a bit more when I'm a little more motivated.

05-18-2009, 09:17 AM	#1 (permalink)
ksagert Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 6 OS: Win XP MCE SP2 MCE Rollup 2, Mac OS X, Windows 3.1	Windows 3.1 as a Diagnostic Tool Hi Everyone (Im not sure if this is the proper area to be posting this, but I couldnt find anything else that could make sense) I am attempting to create a Diagnostic Tool using Windows 3.1 being booted off of a Flash Drive. I was able to install windows, and it boots and runs fine. Two problems that I am currently experiencing is a HIMEM.SYS error and the fact that I cant see any of the other computers physical hard disks. Im not too worried about HIMEM.SYS, as I think I may have found a fix. But its a little hard when you are trying to do hard drive diagnostics from this tool, but cant see any of the other hard drives. Does anyone have any suggestions? -Kevin

05-19-2009, 09:17 AM	#2 (permalink)
blah789 TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,333 OS: Windows 2000 SP4 and Windows XP SP3	Re: Windows 3.1 as a Diagnostic Tool May I ask what version of DOS you're running underneath that (out of curiosity - don't think it makes much of a difference)? First I think your himem.sys error may stem from having huge amounts of memory. In the days of Windows 3.1, the high-end PC's had 16 MB of memory. If you have in the hundreds of MB, or GB's, you may have problem. In fact Windows 98 won't load with more than 768MB of memory! It's documented in this Microsoft KB article: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/184447 I tried the workaround but still had trouble with various programs (even though I could start Windows 98 fine) until I installed my old memorys sticks back in the PC (512MB total). The second things is prior to Windows 95, you had DOS 6.22, and the largest partitions it can create is 2GB (that's the limit for FAT16). I don't know what the largest hard drive it can see is, but if my memory is correct that's also limited to 2GB (based on an experience with FDISK from the DOS 6.22 floppy). Windows 95 can see up to 32GB hard drives, and Windows NT 4 only up to 8GB at setup time. Needless to say, DOS 6.22 won't understand FAT32, NTFS, nor even drives over 128GB (that milestone marks 48-bit LBA). Last thing I wonder about is how DOS or Windows 3.1 would react to a 64-bit or multicore processor. If you really want to play with Windows 3.1, may I suggest using virtual machines or emulators? Microsoft Virtual PC doesn't work well with Windows 3.1, but you can try VirtualBox instead, or DOSBox (mostly for games, but it installs Windows 3.1 well). http://www.virtualbox.org http://www.dosbox.com You can also try installing FreeDOS. Don't know how well it works with Windows 3.1 though, but it does support FAT32 (with possible problems with drives over 32GB - not thoroughly tested according to wikipedia). And this post relates to memory http://osdir.com/ml/emulators.freedo.../msg00086.html although it's kind of old (2005).

05-20-2009, 04:33 AM	#3 (permalink)
TheOutcaste TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 830 OS: MS-Dos 6.22 - Win7	Re: Windows 3.1 as a Diagnostic Tool DOS 6.22 FDISK can only see 8025 MB, and can only create 2 GB partitions. Max 4 partitions, so max drive is 8GB. Haven't tried it with more than 128 MiB of RAM, so I don't know if it would have an issue like Win95/Win98 do, but I suspect it will. UBCD4Win or [/url=http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder]BartPE[/url] booting from a USB stick would be a far better tool. @blah789 -- I'm running WFW 3.11 on VPC 2007 SP1 with no problems, 128 MB ram, 245 MB Swapfile on a 512 MB drive, with Win 3.11 on a 1 GB drive, with the DOS VM Additions installed. Still have to hit the Right ALT key to get the mouse out of the window. Making this post from that system as a matter of fact. Just curious, what problems did you have with Win 3.1? I wouldn't think it would be too diffrent from WFW 3.11, but I haven't tried it since it lacks networking support. Jerry __________________ Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience Of course I know all the answers; I just don't always match the answers to the right questions. Rated R for Violence -- When your PC flies through a window, that's violent, right?