On Bootup: "ENTER THE CPU SETTINGS IN THE CMOS SETUP"

newreel · 01-22-2008, 07:18 PM

Hi There,

I'm working on a homemade desktop running Windows ME. Due to the nature of the problem I'm having, that is all the information about the system that I have.

On bootup, I'm getting this message:

WARNING! CPU HAS BEEN CHANGED. ENTER THE CPU SETTINGS IN THE CMOS SETUP AND REMEMBER TO SAVE BEFORE QUIT!

I was about to just run chkdsk /r, but then it occurred to me that may not do any good if the problem is with the CMOS, right? I really have no idea.

I would be so grateful if someone can help shed some light on this error message for me. I know my way around BIOS pretty well.

Thank you!

**Doby** · 01-22-2008, 07:34 PM

Go into bios and load the defaults then save and exit. See if it will then boot into windows.

If everthing seems fine and it happens again you may need a new motherboard battery they are cheap and avlible at radio shack.

newreel · 01-22-2008, 09:41 PM

Actually, there's been some progress. Unfortunately, not in the right direction.

I ran chkdsk /r. Then I ran fixboot.

Now I'm getting a message that says: DISK BOOT FAILURE. INSERT SYSTEM DISK AND PRESS ENTER.

When I press enter, another message says: NTLDR IS MISSING.

What the heck's going on with this thing?

hitech · 01-23-2008, 10:38 AM

two things to do
1-change cmos battery,set defauts,check boot order,check time
2-repair me

newreel · 01-23-2008, 11:32 AM

Hi there,

I appreciate your help. I'll need some guidance. I haven't changed a cmos battery, checked the time or set defaults before. I'm familiar with BIOS, but I'm not sure what CMOS is. I know how to check the boot order.

hitech · 01-23-2008, 11:58 AM

http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000239.htm

cmos-motherboard battery,samething.once we get the battery resolved,I'll show you about the me repair. the bios will show you how to change things. go through it and highlight it with your arrow keys.the directions to change will be at the botttom of page.once you are in there and look around by using your arrow keys, you will see that it is not that hard.

**OldGrayGary** · 01-23-2008, 12:55 PM

Hi all

... one item is a little puzzling to me --- NewReel, if the system has(had) Windows Me installed, why are you running Windows NT/2000/XP utilities on it? Checkdisk and fixboot are for NT kernel Windows only.

If there is valuable data on the hard drive, you might concentrate on making sure that there are good recent backups, or save the data yourself - before continuing on with repairing Windows.

Best of luck
. . . Gary

P.S. ... and, as you may have guessed, the file NTLDR is the bootloader for Windows NT/2000/XP. NT-LDR= Windows New Technology bootloader. You've likely overwritten the WinMe bootloader with the NT. The command fdisk /mbr will re-write a Win9x mbr ("Master Boot Record") if used from a DOS command prompt (a Win98/98se/Me bootable floppy or CD will boot to DOS -- if booting from the CD, choose "start computer with CDROM support" - that will yield a command prompt.

newreel · 01-23-2008, 08:01 PM

OldGrayGary,

I followed your advice. I have a Win98 CD. I put it in the drive and and chose "start computer with CDROM support". It provided me with an A:\ prompt. I entered fdisk /mbr. Then there appeared another A:\ prompt. So...did it work?

I removed the CD and tried to boot the PC normally. I got the same set of error messages (including NTLDR is missing) as I mentioned before.

Should I have been "pointing" the fdisk command to the C:\ prompt?

Also, since I can't get into the system, I'm not sure how I can concentrate on making backups of the data. I'm working on this for a friend.

**OldGrayGary** · 01-24-2008, 12:09 AM

Hi again

The fdisk /mbr command always operates on the drive designated in the computer's bios as HDD-0 (or "Disk-0") -- the first hard drive found. It doesn't affect a floppy drive at all. Is there more than one hard drive in the system?

What disks have you been using as you attempted to repair? It sounds like at some point you used a Win2000 or WinXP disk, and visited the Recovery Console. At any point, did you start to install 2000 or XP by accident? If so, let us know.

You can save data from that PC (so long as it hasn't been overwritten) by several methods, even if Windows isn't working. If only a small amount of data is considered invaluable enough to save, and if the hard drive is still in decent working order, you can boot the PC with a bootable Live Linux CD, and use the CD-writing tools included to backup the data onto CDs. (Knoppix or Ubuntu Live CDs would probably do fine). Other methods include 'slaving' the hard drive inside another PC & transferring the data, or putting the hard drive in an external USB or eSata hard drive enclosure - then transferring it to another PC via USB or eSata.

By all means, if you haven't yet taken care of the CMOS battery, please do that right away. You risk severe data corruption if the settings get too far off. The CMOS battery is often a simple 3v coin battery, like the CR-2032 -- and usually only costs about $1.50 (USD).

What sort of disks does your friend have to repair the PC with? And are there backups? If it's a home-made box, there should be a suitable Windows CD to install from. . . but saving the data will need to come first. If you're lucky, you might still be able to run an in-place reinstall without losing whatever data has survived to this point.

And ... there's also the reasonable possibility that, even with a fresh CMOS battery, the hard drive or memory could be failing (if it's Win9x/Me era hardware).

If your friend doesn't have anything crucial on the PC, and is open to a fresh installation - you could switch to running diagnostics on the PC, to see if the hardware is still in good condition. If so, you could then erase everything & start over with a new install. There are several possibilities if the hardware is still OK.

Best of luck
. . . Gary

newreel · 01-24-2008, 01:10 PM

I'll take your questions in order:
1. What disks have you been using as you attempted to repair? Initially, I forgot that I was working with ME, and I ran fixboot and fixmbr from the repair console on an XP CD. Then yesterday I ran your suggestion with my 98 CD.

2. did you start to install 2000 or XP by accident? No. I'm familiar with the repair console, I just used the wrong version of the o/s the first time around.

3. By all means, if you haven't yet taken care of the CMOS battery, please do that right away. I will swing by Best Buy today and pick up a CMOS battery. I won't be able to tell them the make and model of the computer, since there isn't one - so hopefully they will be able to provide me with the correct item.

4. What sort of disks does your friend have to repair the PC with? This is the part that almost made me cry. These poor people paid $250 for a home-made computer with an ancient monitor that looks like crap and is running Windows ME. And he didn't give them the o/s CD. They got completely ripped off because of a language barrier - it makes me sick. And now this. To answer your questions, I have CD's of Windows 98 and XP Home. I also have UBCD.

5. I will check with the user to see what kind of important stuff they have on there. My guess is that there is little or nothing on the PC of value to them. They bought it so their kids could get on the Internet.

6. I haven't run too many diagnostics in the past, so I will likely need some guidance from you, if you don't mind. I don't have a copy of ME, but I guess I could install 98 for them. I've never installed 98 before, so I don't know much about it (configuring for the Internet, etc.).

I have to run out for a couple of hours. I'll pick up the CMOS battery while I'm out and then check back with you as far as how to install it when I return.

Thanks a million for your help thus far.

-newreel of Sacramento.

newreel · 01-24-2008, 03:14 PM

Okay, I bought some CMOS batteries. Not sure when the last time was that you bought them, but they aren't $1.50 anymore. They're $5.50 - at least that's what they cost at Best Buy.

Besides that, I didn't know which size to buy (2016, 2025 or 2032) so I bought a package of each. I can return the un-opened ones later.

So, where does the CMOS battery live on the MOBO?

**OldGrayGary** · 01-24-2008, 03:25 PM

Hi again

If you haven't already left for the store, unplug the power cord on the PC, open the case, and take out the old CMOS battery -- then bring it with you to the store. If it's a 3v lithium coin battery, it's likely the CR-2032 -- you won't need any advice at the store other than where to find the battery.

I agree that $250 was too high a price, especially with no disks included. The hardware would have to be far above average to warrant that price --- a brand-new Vista desktop can be had for $400, sometimes less.

.. looks like I've got to run (school pickup time) .. I'll check back later.
. . . Gary

late edit -- how funny, I type so slowly, you're back already!

follow the link that hitech provided -- the article at computerhope shows where the batteries are usually located (generally, down by the PCI slots).

newreel · 01-24-2008, 03:47 PM

Gary,

Check this out. I opened the case and right away it is totally obvious where the battery goes because I see a BLACK circle with a silver clip the same size of the batteries I just bought with NO BATTERY IN IT!

So, now the question is...which of the 3 battery sizes I just bought should go into the battery holder? Of course they are all the same diameter (the diameter of the black battery holder on the mobo) the difference is in their thicknesses. So I'm not able to tell which battery size to use by looking at the battery holder.

Is there a way to tell by looking up the mobo specs? I'm not sure where to find the necessary info on the mobo in order to do that.

I was hoping to return the $11.00 worth of batteries that I don't use, so it wouldn't be my first choice to try them all. Also, might I damage it by using the wrong one?

How can I tell which one to use? Any thoughts?

**OldGrayGary** · 01-24-2008, 04:52 PM

Hi again

CMOS Batteries ---
If you have located a copy of the motherboard manual, it might say in it which type they use. Very likely, however, if you look at each of your batteries, they all will be 3v lithium coin batteries -- they probably vary only in their thickness. Assuming the clip on the motherboard to hold the batteries in is still good, try the 2032 first = it was the most commonly used 3v coin battery.

Make sure, of course, that the power cord is unplugged while you are inside the case.

I'll add a little more details to this post in a few minutes (about your options & repair strategies after replacing the battery) - but I'll get this posted so you can continue
... Gary

newreel · 01-24-2008, 05:28 PM

Hi,

I installed the 2032 and attempted a boot. I get this exact message:

CMOS checksum error - Defaults loaded.
Warning! CPU has been changed.
Please re-enter CPU settings in the CMOS setup and remember to save before quit!

**OldGrayGary** · 01-24-2008, 08:47 PM

Hi again

Bios Setup:
If your friend has any list of the PC's specifications, or the phone # of the fellow who sold it to him -- see if either your friend or the seller knows which cpu is in the system.

Should they not know, or be unavailable, enter Bios Setup (you should have been in there already anyway -- as you need to enter the current time/date --- and check on the other settings).

To enter Bios Setup, press the key mentioned in either a banner message or a splash screen as the PC is powering on: "Press F1 (or F2, F10, Del, etc.) to Enter Setup".

Look to see if the Bios has a setting that allows it to AutoDetect the cpu. Other settings that you will want set to Auto also are the IDE settings for the hard drives (& optical drives). If you can see the motherboard's make/model silkscreened somewhere on it, you can use a search engine to yield a manual -- and you can get additional help for Bios settings from Adrian's Bios Optimization Guide (which explains just about any Bios setting you can imagine - quickly and clearly) --- http://www.techarp.com/freebog.aspx --- remember that when leaving Bios Setup, you'll want to use the option "Save Changes and Exit".

Should the Bios have trouble detecting the cpu, or should it simply not have any AutoDetect functions, try a conservative guess. If you're able to find a motherboard manual, you'll know the range of processors supported - it will be better to miss by guessing a slower cpu than a faster (underclocking doesn't usually hurt anything). Then, if you are able to start the PC reasonably well at that setting - boot with the UBCD, and use it's x86test utility = it should be able to detect the exact model & speed of the cpu. x86test is in the "Mainboard Tools" menu of the UBCD. Also using the UBCD, run the ASTRA utility -- this should provide a list of the other detected hardware present in the system. This knowledge will be helpful when the time comes to run diagnostics.

Once you know the make/model of the cpu, enter Bios Setup again & put in the settings for that cpu.

Run Diagnostics:
Assuming that the PC will now boot successfully with the UBCD, use MemTest86 to test the memory, and the hard drive diagnostics for its brand (ASTRA should have provided the make/model of the hard drive ... if it's still working at all). The memory diagnostics are in the Mainboard Tools menu, and the disk diagnostics are available from the Hard Disk Tools menus.

If the system fails the diagnostics, contact the seller & see if it can be returned (or if he is willing to replace defective parts).

If the system passes diagnostics, go to the next step.

Trial Boot:
What the heck: see what happens when the system tries to boot from the hard drive. If the PC boots -- buy a lottery ticket = your unbelievably lucky.

Replace WinMe boot files:
If it gives the NTLDR not found message again, try booting to a DOS command prompt ( you can use a bootable WinMe floppy diskette from --- http://www.bootdisk.com ) and from the command prompt, try (type the command in bold) -

A:> sys c:

This should give the PC a fighting chance to start, if Windows Me is still intact at all. Reboot the PC to see if it worked.
_________________

InPlace Reinstall of WindowsMe
Should the above efforts produce no joy -
1) Boot the PC with the WinMe floppy diskette again.
2) From the command prompt, use the directory command to see if the win.com file exists in the C:\Windows directory, like this:

A:> cd C:\Windows
C:\Windows> dir

If you see the win.com file in that directory, rename it to win.bak, like this:

C:\Windows> rename win.com win.bak

Now see if your luck is holding out: if the Windows Me installation files are still on the computer, see if you can use them to reinstall Windows Me "in-place" --- any software already present should still work, and most personal files should still be untouched. Try:

C:\Windows> cd C:\Windows\Options\Install
C:\Windows\Options\Install> setup

Should you get an error, "directory not found" or "file not found", try:
C:\Windows> cd C:\Windows\Options\Cabs
C:\Windows\Options\Cabs> setup

See if that starts the reinstall process. If it does, ***remember this important detail***: when Windows asks what location to install, it might suggest Windows.000 (or Windows.001, Windows.002, etc.) DO NOT install to such locations. INSTEAD, choose Other and type in C:\Windows WITHOUT the .000 following.

_________________

I'll check back to see how you're doing.
Think Lucky.
. . . Gary

newreel · 01-24-2008, 10:19 PM

Wow! /Thank you SO much for all that information!

The only boot error I'm getting now is "NTLDR IS MISSING".

In the setup menu, there is a screen called Soyo Combo Feature:

Auto Detect DIM/PCI Clk = ENABLED
Spread Spectrum = DISABLED
CPU Host/PCI Clock = AUTOMATIC
CPU Ratio = X 3.5 (range is 3 to 8)
CPU VCore Adjust Range = Default
Quick Power On Self Test = Enabled

Then the device boot order

OnChip Sound = Auto

**OldGrayGary** · 01-25-2008, 11:57 AM

Good Morning

The 3.5 multiplier sounds pretty safe. Go ahead and enter any other Bios values that need updating, while you are in Bios Setup (of course, set the time and date).

If you happen to look inside the case again, look to see if the make/model is printed on the top of the circuit board -- it is often printed between the PCI slots, or sometimes along the edges of the board. It sounds like a Soyo motherboard -- if I had to guess: it might be an Intel 'BX' chipset, with perhaps a PIII inside.

It should also be OK to try to boot from the UBCD, and try the x86test utility to see if my cpu guess is in the ballpark. With a positive ID for the CPU, you can then enter Bios Setup & set the timings exactly.

Then you can run the diagnostics, and have a look for files, and perhaps try a reinstall.

If most of the hardware is still good, there are quite a few decent options.
. . . Gary

newreel · 01-25-2008, 03:30 PM

Hi Gary,

- This is printed on the mobo between the PCI slots: SY-7VMA-B.
- 3 RAM slots, and only a total of 224mb in there. And it's that odd RAM type that has 2 slots in it - I don't have any of that type laying around.

I think the lack of RAM is having a bad effect on my ability to run UBCD. It keeps coming up with "system resource" error messages. I know my UBCD is good, because I've used it numerous times before successfully.

I feel like everything I try I hit a wall. What would you suggest I do next?

newreel · 01-25-2008, 03:57 PM

REGARDING:
Replace WinMe boot files:
If it gives the NTLDR not found message again, try booting to a DOS command prompt ( you can use a bootable WinMe floppy diskette from --- http://www.bootdisk.com ) and from the command prompt, try (type the command in bold) -

A:> sys c:

This should give the PC a fighting chance to start, if Windows Me is still intact at all. Reboot the PC to see if it worked.

I guess you're talking about burning the above to an actual 3.5" floppy disk. That's what the .exe file that gets downloaded is looking for. It won't recognize a CD Drive. The computer I'm working on doesn't even have a 3.5 drive. So I guess that's another wall we've hit.

01-22-2008, 07:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
newreel Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 244 OS: XP	On Bootup: "ENTER THE CPU SETTINGS IN THE CMOS SETUP" Hi There, I'm working on a homemade desktop running Windows ME. Due to the nature of the problem I'm having, that is all the information about the system that I have. On bootup, I'm getting this message: WARNING! CPU HAS BEEN CHANGED. ENTER THE CPU SETTINGS IN THE CMOS SETUP AND REMEMBER TO SAVE BEFORE QUIT! I was about to just run chkdsk /r, but then it occurred to me that may not do any good if the problem is with the CMOS, right? I really have no idea. I would be so grateful if someone can help shed some light on this error message for me. I know my way around BIOS pretty well. Thank you!

01-22-2008, 07:34 PM	#2 (permalink)
Doby Moderator Hardware Team Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Central PA (USA) Posts: 8,104 OS: XP sp2/ Vista My System	Re: On Bootup: "ENTER THE CPU SETTINGS IN THE CMOS SETUP" Go into bios and load the defaults then save and exit. See if it will then boot into windows. If everthing seems fine and it happens again you may need a new motherboard battery they are cheap and avlible at radio shack. __________________ Would you like to help TSF fight cancer and other diseases??? JOIN TEAM TSF

01-22-2008, 09:41 PM	#3 (permalink)
newreel Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 244 OS: XP	Re: On Bootup: "ENTER THE CPU SETTINGS IN THE CMOS SETUP" Actually, there's been some progress. Unfortunately, not in the right direction. I ran chkdsk /r. Then I ran fixboot. Now I'm getting a message that says: DISK BOOT FAILURE. INSERT SYSTEM DISK AND PRESS ENTER. When I press enter, another message says: NTLDR IS MISSING. What the heck's going on with this thing?

01-23-2008, 10:38 AM	#4 (permalink)
hitech Tech Hardware Team Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 623 OS: Windows	Re: On Bootup: "ENTER THE CPU SETTINGS IN THE CMOS SETUP" two things to do 1-change cmos battery,set defauts,check boot order,check time 2-repair me Last edited by hitech; 01-23-2008 at 10:40 AM.

01-23-2008, 11:32 AM	#5 (permalink)
newreel Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 244 OS: XP	Re: On Bootup: "ENTER THE CPU SETTINGS IN THE CMOS SETUP" Hi there, I appreciate your help. I'll need some guidance. I haven't changed a cmos battery, checked the time or set defaults before. I'm familiar with BIOS, but I'm not sure what CMOS is. I know how to check the boot order.

01-23-2008, 11:58 AM	#6 (permalink)
hitech Tech Hardware Team Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 623 OS: Windows	Re: On Bootup: "ENTER THE CPU SETTINGS IN THE CMOS SETUP" http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000239.htm cmos-motherboard battery,samething.once we get the battery resolved,I'll show you about the me repair. the bios will show you how to change things. go through it and highlight it with your arrow keys.the directions to change will be at the botttom of page.once you are in there and look around by using your arrow keys, you will see that it is not that hard.

01-23-2008, 12:55 PM	#7 (permalink)
OldGrayGary Mentor, Microsoft Support Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Woodland Hills, CA Posts: 2,240 OS: Windows 98se/2000/XP/Vista	Re: On Bootup: "ENTER THE CPU SETTINGS IN THE CMOS SETUP" Hi all ... one item is a little puzzling to me --- NewReel, if the system has(had) Windows Me installed, why are you running Windows NT/2000/XP utilities on it? Checkdisk and fixboot are for NT kernel Windows only. If there is valuable data on the hard drive, you might concentrate on making sure that there are good recent backups, or save the data yourself - before continuing on with repairing Windows. Best of luck . . . Gary P.S. ... and, as you may have guessed, the file NTLDR is the bootloader for Windows NT/2000/XP. NT-LDR= Windows New Technology bootloader. You've likely overwritten the WinMe bootloader with the NT. The command fdisk /mbr will re-write a Win9x mbr ("Master Boot Record") if used from a DOS command prompt (a Win98/98se/Me bootable floppy or CD will boot to DOS -- if booting from the CD, choose "start computer with CDROM support" - that will yield a command prompt. __________________ Last edited by OldGrayGary; 01-23-2008 at 01:05 PM.

01-23-2008, 08:01 PM	#8 (permalink)
newreel Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 244 OS: XP	Re: On Bootup: "ENTER THE CPU SETTINGS IN THE CMOS SETUP" OldGrayGary, I followed your advice. I have a Win98 CD. I put it in the drive and and chose "start computer with CDROM support". It provided me with an A:\ prompt. I entered fdisk /mbr. Then there appeared another A:\ prompt. So...did it work? I removed the CD and tried to boot the PC normally. I got the same set of error messages (including NTLDR is missing) as I mentioned before. Should I have been "pointing" the fdisk command to the C:\ prompt? Also, since I can't get into the system, I'm not sure how I can concentrate on making backups of the data. I'm working on this for a friend.

01-24-2008, 12:09 AM	#9 (permalink)
OldGrayGary Mentor, Microsoft Support Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Woodland Hills, CA Posts: 2,240 OS: Windows 98se/2000/XP/Vista	Re: On Bootup: "ENTER THE CPU SETTINGS IN THE CMOS SETUP" Hi again The fdisk /mbr command always operates on the drive designated in the computer's bios as HDD-0 (or "Disk-0") -- the first hard drive found. It doesn't affect a floppy drive at all. Is there more than one hard drive in the system? What disks have you been using as you attempted to repair? It sounds like at some point you used a Win2000 or WinXP disk, and visited the Recovery Console. At any point, did you start to install 2000 or XP by accident? If so, let us know. You can save data from that PC (so long as it hasn't been overwritten) by several methods, even if Windows isn't working. If only a small amount of data is considered invaluable enough to save, and if the hard drive is still in decent working order, you can boot the PC with a bootable Live Linux CD, and use the CD-writing tools included to backup the data onto CDs. (Knoppix or Ubuntu Live CDs would probably do fine). Other methods include 'slaving' the hard drive inside another PC & transferring the data, or putting the hard drive in an external USB or eSata hard drive enclosure - then transferring it to another PC via USB or eSata. By all means, if you haven't yet taken care of the CMOS battery, please do that right away. You risk severe data corruption if the settings get too far off. The CMOS battery is often a simple 3v coin battery, like the CR-2032 -- and usually only costs about $1.50 (USD). What sort of disks does your friend have to repair the PC with? And are there backups? If it's a home-made box, there should be a suitable Windows CD to install from. . . but saving the data will need to come first. If you're lucky, you might still be able to run an in-place reinstall without losing whatever data has survived to this point. And ... there's also the reasonable possibility that, even with a fresh CMOS battery, the hard drive or memory could be failing (if it's Win9x/Me era hardware). If your friend doesn't have anything crucial on the PC, and is open to a fresh installation - you could switch to running diagnostics on the PC, to see if the hardware is still in good condition. If so, you could then erase everything & start over with a new install. There are several possibilities if the hardware is still OK. Best of luck . . . Gary __________________

01-24-2008, 01:10 PM	#10 (permalink)
newreel Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 244 OS: XP	Re: On Bootup: "ENTER THE CPU SETTINGS IN THE CMOS SETUP" I'll take your questions in order: 1. What disks have you been using as you attempted to repair? Initially, I forgot that I was working with ME, and I ran fixboot and fixmbr from the repair console on an XP CD. Then yesterday I ran your suggestion with my 98 CD. 2. did you start to install 2000 or XP by accident? No. I'm familiar with the repair console, I just used the wrong version of the o/s the first time around. 3. By all means, if you haven't yet taken care of the CMOS battery, please do that right away. I will swing by Best Buy today and pick up a CMOS battery. I won't be able to tell them the make and model of the computer, since there isn't one - so hopefully they will be able to provide me with the correct item. 4. What sort of disks does your friend have to repair the PC with? This is the part that almost made me cry. These poor people paid $250 for a home-made computer with an ancient monitor that looks like crap and is running Windows ME. And he didn't give them the o/s CD. They got completely ripped off because of a language barrier - it makes me sick. And now this. To answer your questions, I have CD's of Windows 98 and XP Home. I also have UBCD. 5. I will check with the user to see what kind of important stuff they have on there. My guess is that there is little or nothing on the PC of value to them. They bought it so their kids could get on the Internet. 6. I haven't run too many diagnostics in the past, so I will likely need some guidance from you, if you don't mind. I don't have a copy of ME, but I guess I could install 98 for them. I've never installed 98 before, so I don't know much about it (configuring for the Internet, etc.). I have to run out for a couple of hours. I'll pick up the CMOS battery while I'm out and then check back with you as far as how to install it when I return. Thanks a million for your help thus far. -newreel of Sacramento. Last edited by newreel; 01-24-2008 at 01:14 PM.

01-24-2008, 03:14 PM	#11 (permalink)
newreel Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 244 OS: XP	Re: On Bootup: "ENTER THE CPU SETTINGS IN THE CMOS SETUP" Okay, I bought some CMOS batteries. Not sure when the last time was that you bought them, but they aren't $1.50 anymore. They're $5.50 - at least that's what they cost at Best Buy. Besides that, I didn't know which size to buy (2016, 2025 or 2032) so I bought a package of each. I can return the un-opened ones later. So, where does the CMOS battery live on the MOBO?

01-24-2008, 03:25 PM	#12 (permalink)
OldGrayGary Mentor, Microsoft Support Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Woodland Hills, CA Posts: 2,240 OS: Windows 98se/2000/XP/Vista	Re: On Bootup: "ENTER THE CPU SETTINGS IN THE CMOS SETUP" Hi again If you haven't already left for the store, unplug the power cord on the PC, open the case, and take out the old CMOS battery -- then bring it with you to the store. If it's a 3v lithium coin battery, it's likely the CR-2032 -- you won't need any advice at the store other than where to find the battery. I agree that $250 was too high a price, especially with no disks included. The hardware would have to be far above average to warrant that price --- a brand-new Vista desktop can be had for $400, sometimes less. .. looks like I've got to run (school pickup time) .. I'll check back later. . . . Gary late edit -- how funny, I type so slowly, you're back already! follow the link that hitech provided -- the article at computerhope shows where the batteries are usually located (generally, down by the PCI slots). __________________ Last edited by OldGrayGary; 01-24-2008 at 03:28 PM.

01-24-2008, 03:47 PM	#13 (permalink)
newreel Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 244 OS: XP	Re: On Bootup: "ENTER THE CPU SETTINGS IN THE CMOS SETUP" Gary, Check this out. I opened the case and right away it is totally obvious where the battery goes because I see a BLACK circle with a silver clip the same size of the batteries I just bought with NO BATTERY IN IT! So, now the question is...which of the 3 battery sizes I just bought should go into the battery holder? Of course they are all the same diameter (the diameter of the black battery holder on the mobo) the difference is in their thicknesses. So I'm not able to tell which battery size to use by looking at the battery holder. Is there a way to tell by looking up the mobo specs? I'm not sure where to find the necessary info on the mobo in order to do that. I was hoping to return the $11.00 worth of batteries that I don't use, so it wouldn't be my first choice to try them all. Also, might I damage it by using the wrong one? How can I tell which one to use? Any thoughts? Last edited by newreel; 01-24-2008 at 03:50 PM.

01-24-2008, 04:52 PM	#14 (permalink)
OldGrayGary Mentor, Microsoft Support Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Woodland Hills, CA Posts: 2,240 OS: Windows 98se/2000/XP/Vista	Re: On Bootup: "ENTER THE CPU SETTINGS IN THE CMOS SETUP" Hi again CMOS Batteries --- If you have located a copy of the motherboard manual, it might say in it which type they use. Very likely, however, if you look at each of your batteries, they all will be 3v lithium coin batteries -- they probably vary only in their thickness. Assuming the clip on the motherboard to hold the batteries in is still good, try the 2032 first = it was the most commonly used 3v coin battery. Make sure, of course, that the power cord is unplugged while you are inside the case. I'll add a little more details to this post in a few minutes (about your options & repair strategies after replacing the battery) - but I'll get this posted so you can continue ... Gary __________________

01-24-2008, 05:28 PM	#15 (permalink)
newreel Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 244 OS: XP	Re: On Bootup: "ENTER THE CPU SETTINGS IN THE CMOS SETUP" Hi, I installed the 2032 and attempted a boot. I get this exact message: CMOS checksum error - Defaults loaded. Warning! CPU has been changed. Please re-enter CPU settings in the CMOS setup and remember to save before quit!

01-24-2008, 08:47 PM	#16 (permalink)
OldGrayGary Mentor, Microsoft Support Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Woodland Hills, CA Posts: 2,240 OS: Windows 98se/2000/XP/Vista	Re: On Bootup: "ENTER THE CPU SETTINGS IN THE CMOS SETUP" Hi again Bios Setup: If your friend has any list of the PC's specifications, or the phone # of the fellow who sold it to him -- see if either your friend or the seller knows which cpu is in the system. Should they not know, or be unavailable, enter Bios Setup (you should have been in there already anyway -- as you need to enter the current time/date --- and check on the other settings). To enter Bios Setup, press the key mentioned in either a banner message or a splash screen as the PC is powering on: "Press F1 (or F2, F10, Del, etc.) to Enter Setup". Look to see if the Bios has a setting that allows it to AutoDetect the cpu. Other settings that you will want set to Auto also are the IDE settings for the hard drives (& optical drives). If you can see the motherboard's make/model silkscreened somewhere on it, you can use a search engine to yield a manual -- and you can get additional help for Bios settings from Adrian's Bios Optimization Guide (which explains just about any Bios setting you can imagine - quickly and clearly) --- http://www.techarp.com/freebog.aspx --- remember that when leaving Bios Setup, you'll want to use the option "Save Changes and Exit". Should the Bios have trouble detecting the cpu, or should it simply not have any AutoDetect functions, try a conservative guess. If you're able to find a motherboard manual, you'll know the range of processors supported - it will be better to miss by guessing a slower cpu than a faster (underclocking doesn't usually hurt anything). Then, if you are able to start the PC reasonably well at that setting - boot with the UBCD, and use it's x86test utility = it should be able to detect the exact model & speed of the cpu. x86test is in the "Mainboard Tools" menu of the UBCD. Also using the UBCD, run the ASTRA utility -- this should provide a list of the other detected hardware present in the system. This knowledge will be helpful when the time comes to run diagnostics. Once you know the make/model of the cpu, enter Bios Setup again & put in the settings for that cpu. Run Diagnostics: Assuming that the PC will now boot successfully with the UBCD, use MemTest86 to test the memory, and the hard drive diagnostics for its brand (ASTRA should have provided the make/model of the hard drive ... if it's still working at all). The memory diagnostics are in the Mainboard Tools menu, and the disk diagnostics are available from the Hard Disk Tools menus. If the system fails the diagnostics, contact the seller & see if it can be returned (or if he is willing to replace defective parts). If the system passes diagnostics, go to the next step. Trial Boot: What the heck: see what happens when the system tries to boot from the hard drive. If the PC boots -- buy a lottery ticket = your unbelievably lucky. Replace WinMe boot files: If it gives the NTLDR not found message again, try booting to a DOS command prompt ( you can use a bootable WinMe floppy diskette from --- http://www.bootdisk.com ) and from the command prompt, try (type the command in bold) - A:> sys c: This should give the PC a fighting chance to start, if Windows Me is still intact at all. Reboot the PC to see if it worked. _________________ InPlace Reinstall of WindowsMe Should the above efforts produce no joy - 1) Boot the PC with the WinMe floppy diskette again. 2) From the command prompt, use the directory command to see if the win.com file exists in the C:\Windows directory, like this: A:> cd C:\Windows C:\Windows> dir If you see the win.com file in that directory, rename it to win.bak, like this: C:\Windows> rename win.com win.bak Now see if your luck is holding out: if the Windows Me installation files are still on the computer, see if you can use them to reinstall Windows Me "in-place" --- any software already present should still work, and most personal files should still be untouched. Try: C:\Windows> cd C:\Windows\Options\Install C:\Windows\Options\Install> setup Should you get an error, "directory not found" or "file not found", try: C:\Windows> cd C:\Windows\Options\Cabs C:\Windows\Options\Cabs> setup See if that starts the reinstall process. If it does, *remember this important detail: when Windows asks what location to install, it might suggest Windows.000* (or Windows.001, Windows.002, etc.) DO NOT install to such locations. INSTEAD, choose Other and type in C:\Windows WITHOUT the .000 following. _________________ I'll check back to see how you're doing. Think Lucky. . . . Gary __________________

01-24-2008, 10:19 PM	#17 (permalink)
newreel Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 244 OS: XP	Re: On Bootup: "ENTER THE CPU SETTINGS IN THE CMOS SETUP" Wow! /Thank you SO much for all that information! The only boot error I'm getting now is "NTLDR IS MISSING". In the setup menu, there is a screen called Soyo Combo Feature: Auto Detect DIM/PCI Clk = ENABLED Spread Spectrum = DISABLED CPU Host/PCI Clock = AUTOMATIC CPU Ratio = X 3.5 (range is 3 to 8) CPU VCore Adjust Range = Default Quick Power On Self Test = Enabled Then the device boot order OnChip Sound = Auto

01-25-2008, 11:57 AM	#18 (permalink)
OldGrayGary Mentor, Microsoft Support Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Woodland Hills, CA Posts: 2,240 OS: Windows 98se/2000/XP/Vista	Re: On Bootup: "ENTER THE CPU SETTINGS IN THE CMOS SETUP" Good Morning The 3.5 multiplier sounds pretty safe. Go ahead and enter any other Bios values that need updating, while you are in Bios Setup (of course, set the time and date). If you happen to look inside the case again, look to see if the make/model is printed on the top of the circuit board -- it is often printed between the PCI slots, or sometimes along the edges of the board. It sounds like a Soyo motherboard -- if I had to guess: it might be an Intel 'BX' chipset, with perhaps a PIII inside. It should also be OK to try to boot from the UBCD, and try the x86test utility to see if my cpu guess is in the ballpark. With a positive ID for the CPU, you can then enter Bios Setup & set the timings exactly. Then you can run the diagnostics, and have a look for files, and perhaps try a reinstall. If most of the hardware is still good, there are quite a few decent options. . . . Gary __________________

01-25-2008, 03:30 PM	#19 (permalink)
newreel Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 244 OS: XP	Re: On Bootup: "ENTER THE CPU SETTINGS IN THE CMOS SETUP" Hi Gary, - This is printed on the mobo between the PCI slots: SY-7VMA-B. - 3 RAM slots, and only a total of 224mb in there. And it's that odd RAM type that has 2 slots in it - I don't have any of that type laying around. I think the lack of RAM is having a bad effect on my ability to run UBCD. It keeps coming up with "system resource" error messages. I know my UBCD is good, because I've used it numerous times before successfully. I feel like everything I try I hit a wall. What would you suggest I do next?

01-25-2008, 03:57 PM	#20 (permalink)
newreel Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 244 OS: XP	Re: On Bootup: "ENTER THE CPU SETTINGS IN THE CMOS SETUP" REGARDING: Replace WinMe boot files: If it gives the NTLDR not found message again, try booting to a DOS command prompt ( you can use a bootable WinMe floppy diskette from --- http://www.bootdisk.com ) and from the command prompt, try (type the command in bold) - A:> sys c: This should give the PC a fighting chance to start, if Windows Me is still intact at all. Reboot the PC to see if it worked. I guess you're talking about burning the above to an actual 3.5" floppy disk. That's what the .exe file that gets downloaded is looking for. It won't recognize a CD Drive. The computer I'm working on doesn't even have a 3.5 drive. So I guess that's another wall we've hit.