Attempting to do something rather odd

Lyreat · 12-13-2007, 10:28 PM

Hi guys, I need some assistance doing something that most people would never dream of doing- I'm downgrading from Windows XP Home edition to Windows 95. The reasoning behind this is I already have a Vista system and I need an old system to run all my old programs on without massive compatibility problems. However, I'm stuck.

I've got a Compaq, and they convieniently didn't ship the computer with the XP CD, only a partition of the hard drive for restoration purposes. I need to know how I can format the hard drive into FAT allocation (I hope I'm correct there...) and install Windows 95 fresh on top of it.

Pretty much I need a "for dummies" sort of guide... I've never worked with XP, boot disks or any of the like. I'm completely used to booting into true DOS in windows 95 and doing it that way, but obviously that isn't possible in XP. Can somebody help?

Jlp1928 · 12-14-2007, 06:01 AM

Hi Lyreat,

I have the same situation as you have. I usually save personal data first. Partition and Format /s using the dos Win98 startup disk and then load Win98. If you just want to change the drive to Fat 32 there are many programs to do that. I use Partition Magic, but you should not have to do that. The startup disk partition (Fdisk) will take care of that. You may need more detailed infor. Someone here will jump in and supply that. (Guys)

Good Luck, Jim

Lyreat · 12-14-2007, 09:43 AM

Okay, that makes sense... but how do I boot off the Windows 95 CD? I mean, when you load a boot floppy, the computer automatically goes to a prompt before it even loads windows. With the cd, however, it just loads straight into Windows. I even went into my BIOS settings and set the boot priority to check for a CD first but it doesn't help. I would use a floppy, but of course floppy drives are hardly standard anymore, and my computer doesn't have one built in (and I'm not looking to buy an external one just for this project).

hitech · 12-14-2007, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyreat

Hi guys, I need some assistance doing something that most people would never dream of doing- I'm downgrading from Windows XP Home edition to Windows 95. The reasoning behind this is I already have a Vista system and I need an old system to run all my old programs on without massive compatibility problems. However, I'm stuck.

I've got a Compaq, and they convieniently didn't ship the computer with the XP CD, only a partition of the hard drive for restoration purposes. I need to know how I can format the hard drive into FAT allocation (I hope I'm correct there...) and install Windows 95 fresh on top of it.

Pretty much I need a "for dummies" sort of guide... I've never worked with XP, boot disks or any of the like. I'm completely used to booting into true DOS in windows 95 and doing it that way, but obviously that isn't possible in XP. Can somebody help?

Fat will only give you 2 gig of hardrive. unless you have 95b or c,they will run on fat32 that will give you more hardrive. after you load 95 on a modern pc it will probably give you a windows protection error and won't load. 98 will work if you can get drivers.

**OldGrayGary** · 12-14-2007, 06:24 PM

Hi all

Since HiTech mentioned the issue of incompatibility, I figured I'd add a few example details:

Reasons to stay with Windows XP:
1) If the cpu on your Compaq is faster than 2 ghz, there can be timing issues that affect Windows 98se/98/95.
2) If no graphics drivers for Windows 95 or Windows 98 are available for your graphics card, you will be limited to Standard VGA (640x480 resolution, 16-colors).
3) Most Windows 95-compatible games run just fine in Windows XP . . . if you install them using "Compatibility Mode". You usually have to right-click the installer's executable (usually "setup.exe" or "install.exe", etc.) and select a Win9x compatibility of your choice. Then also right-click all of the included executables in the game's program folders - and set them to the same compatibility level.
4) If you need to go onto the Internet with the older Compaq, Windows 95 is difficult to secure. In fact, anything prior to Win2000 is very difficult to secure, as most anti-malware programs no longer support Win9x/Me.
5) The Windows 9x/Me series has the longstanding poor use of "system resources", and is less stable in environments where it needs to run continuously over a long period of time, or in moderate to high multi-tasking environments.
_______________

That said, If Windows 95 is absolutely necessary for a game --- try using Microsoft's Virtual PC 2004, and installing Windows 95 as a virtual machine --- http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en --- Virtual PC 2004 is provided free-of-charge by Microsoft nowadays.

Best of luck
. . . Gary

Lyreat · 12-14-2007, 08:20 PM

Okay guys, I'll try the Virtual PC and see how it does. I wasn't aware of the compatability issues with newer machines and Windows 95. I'll let you know how it works soon, I have to do a system restore on the computer because it's all kinds of ate-up with viruses and such.

Lyreat · 12-14-2007, 09:35 PM

Alright. I did a system restore on my computer and it's telling me
<windows root>system\hal32.dll is missing or corrupt. This is... pretty bad. I assume one of my resident spywares or viruses wormed into my restore partition and ate the file. So what can I do now?

**OldGrayGary** · 12-15-2007, 01:48 AM

Hi again all

Lyreat --

Rule Out Hardware Failure
If you ran a Compaq "Restore" from the restore partition, and things failed - you may want to check that there isn't failing hardware that is causing software symptoms. If the built-in Compaq Diagnostics are still operable, try those (I believe on many older systems you can reach them by pressing the F10 key as the PC is powering on). Alternately, if you know the brand of hard drive in the machine, you can find it's diagnostics here --- http://www.tacktech.com/display.cfm?ttid=287 --- and you can test the system memory with a free open-source tool like MemTest86+, available here --- http://www.memtest.org

Try the Recovery Console to fix software boot problems
The errors you are seeing point to trouble reaching your boot files, or trouble with corruption in the files themselves. Check online at hp.com (which, of course, bought Compaq a few years ago) to see if a manual is available for your model. If so, see if you can reach the XP Recovery Console without the use of a CD/DVD (you could do this if Compaq installed the Recovery Console on the hard drive -- otherwise you need an XP CD to enter XP's Recovery Console). If you can reach the Recovery Console, you could try the bootcfg /default, and then the fixboot commands to try for a quick fix (sometimes you also need to copy a clean copy of the hal.dll file to c:\windows\system32 if the first two commands don't fix things). If you had a Windows-XP CD, you could also run a "repair" reinstallation of XP (which also fixes the hal.dll and hal32.dll problems).

Manually fix boot file problems
There are also manual methods to try and fix trouble with boot files, as explained in some old computerhope guides --- http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000490.htm

Start Over from Scratch with a Recovery/Restore CD/DVD
If your first try at a Compaq Restore failed because your restore partiton is corrupt, you'll need to use a Recovery/Restore CD/DVD. Did your Compaq come with any sort of "Recovery/Restore" CD/DVD? If so, you should be able to completely erase the drive, and run the Recovery/Restore procedure using the CD/DVD [it will usually re-create the recovery partition from files on the CD(s)]. You'd need to have saved any data you wish to keep onto removeable media beforehand, though: as complete recoveries usually erase all existing data [they usually write a "factory-original" image-copy of your hard drive, exactly as it was as it arrived home from the store when you bought it].

Order a replacement Recovery/Restore CD/DVD set
If you don't have any Restore/Recovery CD/DVD set, and the restore partition is corrupt, for many Compaq systems you can order a set of Restore/Recovery CD/DVDs for your model for as little as $20 to $30 (much cheaper than having to buy a new license & CD of XP). Ordering information is on the hp.com website, or by telephone.

Best of luck
. . . Gary

Jlp1928 · 12-15-2007, 06:07 AM

Hi again Ly,

The official Microsoft Win 98SE CD does not boot. If that is what you are using then boot from the Win98 Startup disk, navigate to the CD and run SETUP. The startup disk has FDisk and Format and lots of other useful stuff.

More luck, Jim

**OldGrayGary** · 12-16-2007, 01:10 AM

quick note --- it's late here --- Actually, Jim, most Win98 2nd Edition CDs are bootable (I still have several here & boot from them when working on older systems, or for the handy fdisk /mbr fix that can help repair broken post dual-boot problems) --- many of the motherboards, though, from the Win95 and Win98 original time period weren't yet able to boot from CDs. I'm thinking that you might also have in mind the original Win98 CDs -- by golly, I can't remember if they were bootable or not [I still have my first one in my office, maybe I should see if it's bootable ... but that will have to wait till morning :) ]
. . . Gary

Jlp1928 · 12-16-2007, 04:07 AM

Hi Gary,

I have been using an Official Microsoft 98SE CD for years and it is definently not bootable. You are right that some probably are. The OEMs are usually bootable. Mine is however AutoStart, but that doesn't help Ly.

Jim

hitech · 12-16-2007, 03:09 PM

see if your compaq has a place and wireing for a floppy. you will need a cable if it does. my 2005 compaq had a place.It came in handy when i wanted to make bootable partion magic cds.then you can use a 98 boot disk.

12-13-2007, 10:28 PM	#1 (permalink)
Lyreat Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 17 OS: Vista	Attempting to do something rather odd Hi guys, I need some assistance doing something that most people would never dream of doing- I'm downgrading from Windows XP Home edition to Windows 95. The reasoning behind this is I already have a Vista system and I need an old system to run all my old programs on without massive compatibility problems. However, I'm stuck. I've got a Compaq, and they convieniently didn't ship the computer with the XP CD, only a partition of the hard drive for restoration purposes. I need to know how I can format the hard drive into FAT allocation (I hope I'm correct there...) and install Windows 95 fresh on top of it. Pretty much I need a "for dummies" sort of guide... I've never worked with XP, boot disks or any of the like. I'm completely used to booting into true DOS in windows 95 and doing it that way, but obviously that isn't possible in XP. Can somebody help?

12-14-2007, 06:01 AM	#2 (permalink)
Jlp1928 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 441 OS: Win98, XP, 2000	Re: Attempting to do something rather odd Hi Lyreat, I have the same situation as you have. I usually save personal data first. Partition and Format /s using the dos Win98 startup disk and then load Win98. If you just want to change the drive to Fat 32 there are many programs to do that. I use Partition Magic, but you should not have to do that. The startup disk partition (Fdisk) will take care of that. You may need more detailed infor. Someone here will jump in and supply that. (Guys) Good Luck, Jim

12-14-2007, 09:43 AM	#3 (permalink)
Lyreat Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 17 OS: Vista	Re: Attempting to do something rather odd Okay, that makes sense... but how do I boot off the Windows 95 CD? I mean, when you load a boot floppy, the computer automatically goes to a prompt before it even loads windows. With the cd, however, it just loads straight into Windows. I even went into my BIOS settings and set the boot priority to check for a CD first but it doesn't help. I would use a floppy, but of course floppy drives are hardly standard anymore, and my computer doesn't have one built in (and I'm not looking to buy an external one just for this project).

12-14-2007, 06:24 PM	#5 (permalink)
OldGrayGary Mentor, Microsoft Support Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Woodland Hills, CA Posts: 2,240 OS: Windows 98se/2000/XP/Vista	Re: Attempting to do something rather odd Hi all Since HiTech mentioned the issue of incompatibility, I figured I'd add a few example details: Reasons to stay with Windows XP: 1) If the cpu on your Compaq is faster than 2 ghz, there can be timing issues that affect Windows 98se/98/95. 2) If no graphics drivers for Windows 95 or Windows 98 are available for your graphics card, you will be limited to Standard VGA (640x480 resolution, 16-colors). 3) Most Windows 95-compatible games run just fine in Windows XP . . . if you install them using "Compatibility Mode". You usually have to right-click the installer's executable (usually "setup.exe" or "install.exe", etc.) and select a Win9x compatibility of your choice. Then also right-click *all* of the included executables in the game's program folders - and set them to the same compatibility level. 4) If you need to go onto the Internet with the older Compaq, Windows 95 is difficult to secure. In fact, anything prior to Win2000 is very difficult to secure, as most anti-malware programs no longer support Win9x/Me. 5) The Windows 9x/Me series has the longstanding poor use of "system resources", and is less stable in environments where it needs to run continuously over a long period of time, or in moderate to high multi-tasking environments. _______________ That said, If Windows 95 is *absolutely* necessary for a game --- try using Microsoft's Virtual PC 2004, and installing Windows 95 as a virtual machine --- http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en --- Virtual PC 2004 is provided free-of-charge by Microsoft nowadays. Best of luck . . . Gary __________________

12-14-2007, 08:20 PM	#6 (permalink)
Lyreat Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 17 OS: Vista	Re: Attempting to do something rather odd Okay guys, I'll try the Virtual PC and see how it does. I wasn't aware of the compatability issues with newer machines and Windows 95. I'll let you know how it works soon, I have to do a system restore on the computer because it's all kinds of ate-up with viruses and such.

12-14-2007, 09:35 PM	#7 (permalink)
Lyreat Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 17 OS: Vista	Re: Attempting to do something rather odd Alright. I did a system restore on my computer and it's telling me <windows root>system\hal32.dll is missing or corrupt. This is... pretty bad. I assume one of my resident spywares or viruses wormed into my restore partition and ate the file. So what can I do now?

12-15-2007, 01:48 AM	#8 (permalink)
OldGrayGary Mentor, Microsoft Support Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Woodland Hills, CA Posts: 2,240 OS: Windows 98se/2000/XP/Vista	Re: Attempting to do something rather odd Hi again all Lyreat -- Rule Out Hardware Failure If you ran a Compaq "Restore" from the restore partition, and things failed - you may want to check that there isn't failing hardware that is causing software symptoms. If the built-in Compaq Diagnostics are still operable, try those (I believe on many older systems you can reach them by pressing the F10 key as the PC is powering on). Alternately, if you know the brand of hard drive in the machine, you can find it's diagnostics here --- http://www.tacktech.com/display.cfm?ttid=287 --- and you can test the system memory with a free open-source tool like MemTest86+, available here --- http://www.memtest.org Try the Recovery Console to fix software boot problems The errors you are seeing point to trouble reaching your boot files, or trouble with corruption in the files themselves. Check online at hp.com (which, of course, bought Compaq a few years ago) to see if a manual is available for your model. If so, see if you can reach the XP Recovery Console without the use of a CD/DVD (you could do this if Compaq installed the Recovery Console on the hard drive -- otherwise you need an XP CD to enter XP's Recovery Console). If you can reach the Recovery Console, you could try the bootcfg /default, and then the fixboot commands to try for a quick fix (sometimes you also need to copy a clean copy of the hal.dll file to c:\windows\system32 if the first two commands don't fix things). If you had a Windows-XP CD, you could also run a "repair" reinstallation of XP (which also fixes the hal.dll and hal32.dll problems). Manually fix boot file problems There are also manual methods to try and fix trouble with boot files, as explained in some old computerhope guides --- http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000490.htm Start Over from Scratch with a Recovery/Restore CD/DVD If your first try at a Compaq Restore failed because your restore partiton is corrupt, you'll need to use a Recovery/Restore CD/DVD. Did your Compaq come with any sort of "Recovery/Restore" CD/DVD? If so, you should be able to completely erase the drive, and run the Recovery/Restore procedure using the CD/DVD [it will usually re-create the recovery partition from files on the CD(s)]. You'd need to have saved any data you wish to keep onto removeable media beforehand, though: as complete recoveries usually erase all existing data [they usually write a "factory-original" image-copy of your hard drive, exactly as it was as it arrived home from the store when you bought it]. Order a replacement Recovery/Restore CD/DVD set If you don't have any Restore/Recovery CD/DVD set, and the restore partition is corrupt, for many Compaq systems you can order a set of Restore/Recovery CD/DVDs for your model for as little as $20 to $30 (much cheaper than having to buy a new license & CD of XP). Ordering information is on the hp.com website, or by telephone. Best of luck . . . Gary __________________

12-15-2007, 06:07 AM	#9 (permalink)
Jlp1928 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 441 OS: Win98, XP, 2000	Re: Attempting to do something rather odd Hi again Ly, The official Microsoft Win 98SE CD does not boot. If that is what you are using then boot from the Win98 Startup disk, navigate to the CD and run SETUP. The startup disk has FDisk and Format and lots of other useful stuff. More luck, Jim

12-16-2007, 01:10 AM	#10 (permalink)
OldGrayGary Mentor, Microsoft Support Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Woodland Hills, CA Posts: 2,240 OS: Windows 98se/2000/XP/Vista	Re: Attempting to do something rather odd quick note --- it's late here --- Actually, Jim, most Win98 2nd Edition CDs are bootable (I still have several here & boot from them when working on older systems, or for the handy fdisk /mbr fix that can help repair broken post dual-boot problems) --- many of the motherboards, though, from the Win95 and Win98 original time period weren't yet able to boot from CDs. I'm thinking that you might also have in mind the original Win98 CDs -- by golly, I can't remember if they were bootable or not [I still have my first one in my office, maybe I should see if it's bootable ... but that will have to wait till morning :) ] . . . Gary __________________

12-16-2007, 04:07 AM	#11 (permalink)
Jlp1928 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 441 OS: Win98, XP, 2000	Re: Attempting to do something rather odd Hi Gary, I have been using an Official Microsoft 98SE CD for years and it is definently not bootable. You are right that some probably are. The OEMs are usually bootable. Mine is however AutoStart, but that doesn't help Ly. Jim Last edited by Jlp1928; 12-16-2007 at 04:10 AM.

12-16-2007, 03:09 PM	#12 (permalink)
hitech Tech Hardware Team Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 618 OS: Windows	Re: Attempting to do something rather odd see if your compaq has a place and wireing for a floppy. you will need a cable if it does. my 2005 compaq had a place.It came in handy when i wanted to make bootable partion magic cds.then you can use a 98 boot disk.