Limitations of Windows 98

Coopers_bob · 06-28-2007, 05:51 AM

I had a few problems with my store bought pc and after replacing so many parts it's essentially a new system so my XP restore disk I got with it won't work. For the past month I've been using a friends copy of XP, but it wants me to register it by tomorrow, after which I'm guessing I will no longer be able to use my computer.

Until I have the money to buy a new OS I was wondering if I could install and run my old Windows 98SE. Unless there are some limitations which means it'll get upset about the more modern components of my system. Here are my specs.

Intel p4 2.8ghz
1gb ram
geForce4 MX440 (my old basic video card)
60gb master & 200gb slave harddisks
DVD RW drive (32x read, 24x write)
and I use a wireless network card

**Deleted090308** · 06-28-2007, 08:16 AM

Hi and welcome to TSF

If the partitions on your HDDs are formatted as NTFS you will have a problem - Windows98 can only read FAT partitions and won't recognize more than 128 GB on a partition.
See if there's a Win98 driver for your network card.
The other parts should work with Win98 (with the proper drivers).

**Bartender** · 06-28-2007, 09:58 PM

What all have you replaced? I'm thinking that it would be easier to download the drivers for your new parts and burn those to a CD, then use your restore CD and immediately install drivers.
Or have you replaced the motherboard and Microsoft is now giving you a ration about an illegal installation?
If you've got a legal copy of XP I'd sure suggest using it for all it's worth!

**OldGrayGary** · 06-28-2007, 10:31 PM

Hi all

. . . figured I'd add a few notes:

If you unplug your two larger hard drives, and just use the smaller 60gb hard drive, you'll avoid Win98's problem with those.

You might receive "ndis" 'protection errors' when trying to install Windows 98 on a computer with a processor faster than 2.2ghz --- http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;312108 --- The weird part is, I could swear that there used to be a "patch" that helped with this (it used to be located at the bottom of the same Knowledge Base article that refers to the ndis error) - but I can no longer find any links to the patch. The alternative is to "underclock" your cpu [if you've a motherboard and an unlocked cpu that allows this] to under 2.2ghz.

If your 1gb of memory comes in two modules, it might be easiest just to remove one module, leaving you with 512mb. Otherwise you'll need to modify to modify the [VCache] section of your system.ini file, by adding MaxFileCache=524288. It's usually best to have Windows 98 start life with 512mb or less, and then if you want to have it get along with more, make the VCache edit, and put the other module back in (theoretically Win98 can use up to 2gb, but in practice, it's a no-win situation higher than 512mb).

You'll have to check, too, to see if there are Win98 drivers for the chipset in your motherboard. Some newer chipsets don't have Win9x support at all (for those systems, Win9x has to be run in a virtual environment = or "emulation" = such as Virtual PC).
_________

If you haven't replaced the motherboard of your original PC, you could probably still purchase a Recovery Disk set that will work for a smaller fee than having to buy a retail XP CD. You could also call your vendor if you are still under an extended warranty, and see if all you need is a phone call to Microsoft to activate your current installation using your original license product key.

Best of luck
. . . Gary

[P.S. Hi there, Bartender --- I just saw your post (I had to run an errand in the middle of typing my reply) --- It's almost too hot to type here in the San Fernando Valley (CA) - thankfully, the sun finally went down!]

**Bartender** · 06-28-2007, 11:53 PM

Hi, yourself, OGG -
I grew up in Santa Clara, a suburb of San Jose. Living in the Gray - oops, Great Northwest now. Easier to keep our PC's running cool up here!

Jeez, I didn't realize there were all those hassles involved with Win98, such as you describe.
Don't you think it'd be better for the OP to try and make his original copy of XP, even if it was a restore CD, work?

That or move on to a modern Linux distro. Sorry, couldn't resist

It sure sounds like Win98 is quickly becoming more hassle than it's worth. I know for a fact that it's getting harder to find software. Most free anti-malware programs don't support Win98 anymore, and programs like GIMP work, but they're glitchy and some features don't function correctly.

Some friends with a Win98 PC I built them are trying out ClamWin, the Windows version of ClamAV. It seems to be working OK. I'd installed avast! but avast! kept screwing with Thunderbird (changing the pop3 settings to 127.0.0.0) so we replaced it. Those are about the only two free anti-vir programs I could find for W98.

**OldGrayGary** · 06-29-2007, 01:38 AM

quick note --- Yes, I think the best solution will be to find a way for a successful XP installation -- it would be great if there were no additional cost, or very little.

I've started to recommend that Windows 98 should only be used as a standalone, or in emulation --- since it's so hard to secure on the Internet. It's resource problem is hard to overcome on broadband-Internet-connected PCs, since for system security a firewall and antivirus need to run all the time. And, as you mentioned, it's getting harder to find Win98 supported firewalls/antivirus/antispyware programs (some that are still available no longer receive updates). For gamers who still dual-boot Win98/XP, I've been recommending that they disable the network adapter in the Win98 device manager, but leave it enabled in XP - that way the PC is not at risk while enjoying an old Win98 game.

Send one of those Northwest Pacific weather systems down this way, OK - one with a little rain :) . . . Gary

Chevy · 07-01-2007, 01:12 AM

The big question - have you replaced the motherboard?

Coopers_bob · 07-01-2007, 10:30 AM

Yes I got a new motherboard and cpu. I don't even think the restore disk is a proper XP installation, more just a disk image.
I can't remember exactly what it said after I formatted the HD with the restore disk, but it certainly didn't get far.

I'm writing this on my Wii so I can't even download some patches to try out. Guess I best just wopp my new gfx card in and buy vista.

**Bartender** · 07-01-2007, 04:12 PM

Do you have broadband? You know, DSL or cable or satellite?

Reason I ask is because you oughta try a modern Linux distro before buying Vista. Linux is a hassle on dial-up so that's the reason for the first question.

If you've got a friend or neighbor who knows anything about Linux, ask them to burn you a LiveCD of PCLinuxOS2007 or MEPIS or Ubuntu. What the hey, it'd cost you nothing to try it out on your PC. If you find your printer/scanner won't work with it, or your wireless network won't connect, etc. it might be easier to just pay for a copy of the accursed Vista. I plan on holding on to my copies of W2K until I can migrate to Linux entirely.

Chevy · 07-01-2007, 06:22 PM

Since you changed the motherboard and CPU, what you have is a new system, and the OEM license cannot be transfered to a new system.

Your choice is to either buy a new XP license, or to go with something like Linux.

06-28-2007, 05:51 AM	#1 (permalink)
Coopers_bob Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3 OS: Windows XP Home Edition	Limitations of Windows 98 I had a few problems with my store bought pc and after replacing so many parts it's essentially a new system so my XP restore disk I got with it won't work. For the past month I've been using a friends copy of XP, but it wants me to register it by tomorrow, after which I'm guessing I will no longer be able to use my computer. Until I have the money to buy a new OS I was wondering if I could install and run my old Windows 98SE. Unless there are some limitations which means it'll get upset about the more modern components of my system. Here are my specs. Intel p4 2.8ghz 1gb ram geForce4 MX440 (my old basic video card) 60gb master & 200gb slave harddisks DVD RW drive (32x read, 24x write) and I use a wireless network card

06-28-2007, 08:16 AM	#2 (permalink)
Deleted090308 Not... Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 22,277 OS: Xp	Re: Limitations of Windows 98 Hi and welcome to TSF If the partitions on your HDDs are formatted as NTFS you will have a problem - Windows98 can only read FAT partitions and won't recognize more than 128 GB on a partition. See if there's a Win98 driver for your network card. The other parts should work with Win98 (with the proper drivers). Last edited by Deleted090308; 06-28-2007 at 08:38 AM.

06-28-2007, 09:58 PM	#3 (permalink)
Bartender Mentally divergent Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Chehalis, WA, USA Posts: 1,285 OS: W2K, Ubuntu 8.04	Re: Limitations of Windows 98 What all have you replaced? I'm thinking that it would be easier to download the drivers for your new parts and burn those to a CD, then use your restore CD and immediately install drivers. Or have you replaced the motherboard and Microsoft is now giving you a ration about an illegal installation? If you've got a legal copy of XP I'd sure suggest using it for all it's worth!

06-28-2007, 10:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
OldGrayGary Mentor, Microsoft Support Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Woodland Hills, CA Posts: 2,240 OS: Windows 98se/2000/XP/Vista	Re: Limitations of Windows 98 Hi all . . . figured I'd add a few notes: If you unplug your two larger hard drives, and just use the smaller 60gb hard drive, you'll avoid Win98's problem with those. You might receive "ndis" 'protection errors' when trying to install Windows 98 on a computer with a processor faster than 2.2ghz --- http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;312108 --- The weird part is, I could swear that there used to be a "patch" that helped with this (it used to be located at the bottom of the same Knowledge Base article that refers to the ndis error) - but I can no longer find any links to the patch. The alternative is to "underclock" your cpu [if you've a motherboard and an unlocked cpu that allows this] to under 2.2ghz. If your 1gb of memory comes in two modules, it might be easiest just to remove one module, leaving you with 512mb. Otherwise you'll need to modify to modify the [VCache] section of your system.ini file, by adding MaxFileCache=524288. It's usually best to have Windows 98 start life with 512mb or less, and then if you want to have it get along with more, make the VCache edit, and put the other module back in (theoretically Win98 can use up to 2gb, but in practice, it's a no-win situation higher than 512mb). You'll have to check, too, to see if there are Win98 drivers for the chipset in your motherboard. Some newer chipsets don't have Win9x support at all (for those systems, Win9x has to be run in a virtual environment = or "emulation" = such as Virtual PC). _________ If you haven't replaced the motherboard of your original PC, you could probably still purchase a Recovery Disk set that will work for a smaller fee than having to buy a retail XP CD. You could also call your vendor if you are still under an extended warranty, and see if all you need is a phone call to Microsoft to activate your current installation using your original license product key. Best of luck . . . Gary [P.S. Hi there, Bartender --- I just saw your post (I had to run an errand in the middle of typing my reply) --- It's almost too hot to type here in the San Fernando Valley (CA) - thankfully, the sun finally went down!] __________________ Last edited by OldGrayGary; 06-28-2007 at 10:36 PM.

06-28-2007, 11:53 PM	#5 (permalink)
Bartender Mentally divergent Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Chehalis, WA, USA Posts: 1,285 OS: W2K, Ubuntu 8.04	Re: Limitations of Windows 98 Hi, yourself, OGG - I grew up in Santa Clara, a suburb of San Jose. Living in the Gray - oops, Great Northwest now. Easier to keep our PC's running cool up here! Jeez, I didn't realize there were all those hassles involved with Win98, such as you describe. Don't you think it'd be better for the OP to try and make his original copy of XP, even if it was a restore CD, work? That or move on to a modern Linux distro. Sorry, couldn't resist It sure sounds like Win98 is quickly becoming more hassle than it's worth. I know for a fact that it's getting harder to find software. Most free anti-malware programs don't support Win98 anymore, and programs like GIMP work, but they're glitchy and some features don't function correctly. Some friends with a Win98 PC I built them are trying out ClamWin, the Windows version of ClamAV. It seems to be working OK. I'd installed avast! but avast! kept screwing with Thunderbird (changing the pop3 settings to 127.0.0.0) so we replaced it. Those are about the only two free anti-vir programs I could find for W98.

06-29-2007, 01:38 AM	#6 (permalink)
OldGrayGary Mentor, Microsoft Support Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Woodland Hills, CA Posts: 2,240 OS: Windows 98se/2000/XP/Vista	Re: Limitations of Windows 98 quick note --- Yes, I think the best solution will be to find a way for a successful XP installation -- it would be great if there were no additional cost, or very little. I've started to recommend that Windows 98 should only be used as a standalone, or in emulation --- since it's so hard to secure on the Internet. It's resource problem is hard to overcome on broadband-Internet-connected PCs, since for system security a firewall and antivirus need to run all the time. And, as you mentioned, it's getting harder to find Win98 supported firewalls/antivirus/antispyware programs (some that are still available no longer receive updates). For gamers who still dual-boot Win98/XP, I've been recommending that they disable the network adapter in the Win98 device manager, but leave it enabled in XP - that way the PC is not at risk while enjoying an old Win98 game. Send one of those Northwest Pacific weather systems down this way, OK - one with a little rain :) . . . Gary __________________

07-01-2007, 01:12 AM	#7 (permalink)
Chevy Retired Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Notlob Posts: 5,452 OS: Vista Ultimate My System	Re: Limitations of Windows 98 The big question - have you replaced the motherboard?

07-01-2007, 10:30 AM	#8 (permalink)
Coopers_bob Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3 OS: Windows XP Home Edition	Re: Limitations of Windows 98 Yes I got a new motherboard and cpu. I don't even think the restore disk is a proper XP installation, more just a disk image. I can't remember exactly what it said after I formatted the HD with the restore disk, but it certainly didn't get far. I'm writing this on my Wii so I can't even download some patches to try out. Guess I best just wopp my new gfx card in and buy vista.

07-01-2007, 04:12 PM	#9 (permalink)
Bartender Mentally divergent Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Chehalis, WA, USA Posts: 1,285 OS: W2K, Ubuntu 8.04	Re: Limitations of Windows 98 Do you have broadband? You know, DSL or cable or satellite? Reason I ask is because you oughta try a modern Linux distro before buying Vista. Linux is a hassle on dial-up so that's the reason for the first question. If you've got a friend or neighbor who knows anything about Linux, ask them to burn you a LiveCD of PCLinuxOS2007 or MEPIS or Ubuntu. What the hey, it'd cost you nothing to try it out on your PC. If you find your printer/scanner won't work with it, or your wireless network won't connect, etc. it might be easier to just pay for a copy of the accursed Vista. I plan on holding on to my copies of W2K until I can migrate to Linux entirely. Last edited by Chevy; 07-01-2007 at 06:23 PM. Reason: removed links to bypassing OEM licensing

07-01-2007, 06:22 PM	#10 (permalink)
Chevy Retired Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Notlob Posts: 5,452 OS: Vista Ultimate My System	Re: Limitations of Windows 98 Since you changed the motherboard and CPU, what you have is a new system, and the OEM license cannot be transfered to a new system. Your choice is to either buy a new XP license, or to go with something like Linux.