mam91031

I have two computers and they both have issues. Computer #1 will not boot, while computer #2 remains in BIOS and will not boot. A computer store told me to exchange the hard drives. Now computer #1 boots but then goes to windows registry and asks to restart. Once it restarts it does the cycle again. Computer #2 remains in BIOS, but now states cannot find hard drive and shows a CD-Rom drive. Any ideas?

Done_Fishin

Hi there .. I think that you definitely have some issues with your hard drives .. are they both Win98 installations?

Computer #1 would not boot untill you gave t a bootable drive but it seems that the registries have problems and also the wrong drivers are installed since it came from another PC .. unlikely to have been a twin ..

Computer #2 has progreesed slightly in that it now sees the CD rom but not the HArd drive .. check that the jumpers are set correctly for master slave drives ..
check that the cables are OK .. you can try swapping them between PC's if they look identical .. but not of they are only similar ..

what are the jumper settings .. on each drive .. are both HDD & CD on the same cable ?
Give me a few more details and we will take it from there

mam91031

Computer #1 has windows 2000, I think, while Computer #2 has windows 98SE. I also noticed that when booting, computer #1 doesn't recognize the new hard drive as the samsung which was installed. It still has the original hard drive listed.

Computer #2 has separate cords for each drive, so I just installed the new hard drive as previously installed.

Hope this helps both of us.

Done_Fishin

Swapping drives in a system that uses Win98 is OK .. since the OS will try to find drivers for the new hardware it finds .. but Win2K is another matter, i will not like being moved at all and the tendency would be for it to crash.

Lets look at the win98 system .. if you change the drive on a system that old .. and I am assuming it is old because the OS is outdated, you may need to go into the BIOS and reset the hard drive to show the new drive .. at the same time though if the drive is more than 2 GB you might well find that the BIOS won't support it ..
What are the the drive sizes ?
Win 98 in FAT 16 max partition size is probably 2GB .. Win2K in ntfs will be much much larger.

The Win2K PC seems to be stuck in BIOS you said .. can you be more explicit.. is there a mesage saying that you have an error or that the hard drive has failed or anything ?? does it suggest that you do anything ?

OldGrayGary

Hi all

Figured I'd add a few things:
A) Diagnostics --
Both systems are probably old enough that they still have floppy drives. Set the boot order in the Bios to 1) Floppy 2) CDROM 3) Hard drive --- then boot the two computers with bootable floppy diskettes with diagnostics on them. Run hard drive diagnostics --- http://tacktech.com/display.cfm?ttid=287 --- and memory diagnotics --- http://www.memtest.org [the downloads usually run a program that ask you to place a blank diskette in the floppy drive, and then the program writes to the floppy - making it bootable: it will then start the diagnostics automatically when a computer is booted from that diagnostic floppy]. Run the memory diagnostics first, then the hard drive diagnostics.
B) Check the time/date in Bios Setup:
Windows 98/2000 systems are due to experience a weak CMOS battery by now (the Lithium coin batteries last about five or six years -- they are usually 3v 2032 coin batteries, and cost about $1.50). If the battery can't hold the settings, the system will have a hard time getting started properly.
C) Scan the hard drives and both computers' Bios for malware.
[Or just zero-write the hard drives, if you'd like to start from scratch -- but you'd still need to scan the motherboard bios of both computers to make sure they're clean. A bootable CD such as the UBCD can do this sort of scan for you easily --- http://www.ultimatebootcd.com --- in fact, the UBCD also has a lot of hard drive diagnostics on it, so it's an alternative to the floppy-diskette diagnostics].

What sort of disks do you have, and what OS are you most interested in running? -- Should you have questions about that - I imagine we'll have an idea or two.

Best of luck
. . . Gary

mam91031

Computer #1 (windows 2000) goes through an arrary of screens. First, a bios screen which mentions BIOS V 6.00PC, and still lists the original hard drive (fujitsu) not the samsung installed. It also seems to grind during this stage. Then it verifies DMI pool data. After that it goes to AVG bootup, and normally states cannot init core. It once did not say that. Lastly it goes to microsoft reg checker. States that windows found an error in your system files and restored a recent backup of the files to fix the problem; press enter to restart. It the cycles the above.

Computer #2 (Windows 98se) simply states primary hard disk 0 not found; strike F1 to continue and F2 to run setup. The setup screen mentions the secondary as a CD-ROM device, and the boot device priority as diskette A then CD-ROM device.

Here are specifics of the hard drives swapped. Samsung Legacy Voyager 3: Cyl 13424, HD 15, SEC 63, and 6.48 GB. Fujitsu limited: interface ATA-5, 10.24 GB

Why by swapping the drives did computer #1 boot? Beforehand it didn't even turn on the monitor. Maybe this could be a hidden problem?

I will now try Gary's suggestion.

OldGrayGary

Hi again all

mam91031 -- One possible reason that the otherwise non-bootable computer started partially booting after swapping hard drives is that one of your two hard drives has failed (somewhat expected, if it's been in use for six or seven years). The diagnostics will confirm the health of the drives. Both the Fujitsu and Samsung hard drive diagnostics are on the UBCD, if you choose to try that (UBCD = Ultimate Boot CD). If you want to work from floppy diskettes, you'll use the Fujitsu diagnostics --- http://www.fis.fujitsu.com/support/d...fjdt_v6.90.zip --- ("A full user guide outlining diagnostic help is included in the zipped package") --- and the Samsung diagnostics --- http://www.samsung.com/Products/Hard...ies/shdiag.htm --- (full instructions are there on Samsung's download webpage).

As Done_Fishin mentions, the jumpers have to be set correctly for the drives to appear in the Bios. Since you have only one hard drive in each computer, either set the drives to "Master", making sure that the jumper-pin is placed for "Master" on each hard drive (and that any CD/DVD drives are set to "Slave" - if they share the same IDE cable), or set all drives to "Cable Select", using 80-wire cabling, and attach the hard drives as Masters at the very end of the cables, and attach any CD/DVD drives sharing a cable with a hard drive to the connector in the middle of the cable. The jumper settings are usually shown on a sticker right there on the hard drive itself, or if you know the specific model #, you can search their support webpages for the jumper settings.

Make sure, too, next time you enter Bios Setup on your two computers, to view the time/date: if it's travelled backwards in time several years, the CMOS battery is likely a goner [as I mentioned earlier].

I was a little unclear when I asked "what sort of disks do you have?" -- I meant to ask what sort of operating system CDs you have to use for installing/repairing/reinstalling. I wonder, too, if you have backups of any data that needs saving on the two drives.

Best of luck
. . . Gary

mam91031

Set the jumper to master as previously set on computer #2. Now it finds a primary drive as EIDE drive with 10248 as its size. I then changed the boot order as mentioned (diskette A, CD-ROM, hard disk C), but still the computer will not boot. Should I use a bootable disk? If so, the windows 2000 is too large for a floppy. May I use a burnt cd?

Set the jumper to slave as previously set on computer #1. Now it reads a hard disk failure, and then an invalid system disk. None is present. Possibly because the drive is an earlier version of windows?

I do not have an disks for either computer. Also am unsure of which operating system I will use, after the problems are found.

mam91031

Bump.

OldGrayGary

Hi again

Sorry for the delay in answering - lots of deadlines for me at the moment.

I think I'd recommend making yourself a copy of the UBCD, and run the Samsung and Fujitsu diagnostics for your two drives. That's probably the easiest way to go. If you don't have broadband, see if a friend will make the CD for you. You simply download the .iso file, and burn the image to a CD using a program like Roxio or Nero (using the "burn image" option).

The diagnostics should find and test the drives, so long as they are detected by the Bios. Now that the Fujitsu in computer #2 is detected correctly, you should be able to test it. The Samsung in computer #1 was doing better before you changed its jumpers. Not sure why you moved it to slave? If the Samsung doesn't share the cable, jumper it as Master & see if it detects OK. If it shares the cable, once again jumper the hard drive as Master, and make sure the CDROM drive is jumpered as Slave. Once it is detected again - run the diagnostics.

Were the time/date settings OK in the Bios of both PCs? This is fairly important: if certain bios settings for a hard drive change while there is data still on the drive, all that data can be lost (for example: if the hard drive "Type" is changed). Weak CMOS batteries can't hold the correct settings (not a huge problem with newer PCs, since most default to auto-detection of the drives... but for older PCs, there can be problems).

Your options are fairly severly limited if you've no Windows installation CDs. Did you recently acquire these drives as whole systems, or as spare parts, or ?

Another OS option you could consider, if the hardware proves to be OK, is Linux.

I'll check back & see if you've been able to run the diagnostics.
. . . Gary

Done_Fishin

IN view of teh fact that you say you have NO DISKS at all for your sytems .. I must advise you that it's against the forums rules to assist in repairing illegal installations of windows .. so unless your installations are OEM ..

As for trying to repair your PC's and getting them to a point where you could install a legally purchased version of windows or even a Linux distro .. Ther is no problem with that .. but it's only fair to warn you that we will have to be careful as of now as to how we can help you ..

Do as Gary says .. get the UBCD ( linux version) LIVE CD .. it's not really anything to worry about since you boot each time into a menu where you can choose what you want to do ..
You will have to select to boot from CD in BIOS as first device .. put the cd in the drive and boot .. then select the appropriate menu and option you want .. do a thourough read only check of your disks in case you have any data you mihght want to recover later. If there is nothing that you might want do a full test on the disk .. when you come to re-install Windows or install Linux .. you can format the drives ( if any good ) to remove all traces of any previous Operating systems.

mam91031

I ran hard disk diagnostics on the three drives. Fujitsu (bottom slot): passed quick scan, passed comprehensive scan, no error on HDD. Fujitsu (top slot): passed quick scan, passed comprehensive scan, no error on hard drive. Samsung: cannot find drive thus cannot scan?

I also ran memory test, but stopped at 19hrs 23 min with 108 passed.

Further updates. The 2000 computer will not boot at all. Originally the top slot was on master with the bottom slot on slave? As a result I had to run all tests on the dell alone. Also, the 2nd hard drive (top slot) gives an invalid system disk error? Does this mean that the fujitsu may not be run in the dell? Is the 2000 computer beyond repair? Finally I use the word 2000 computer, but when it booted before it was windows 1998.

Done_Fishin

That at least is good news since you should understand by now that you have at least 2 good drives .. and that the OS's, where installed, are corrupt or working on the wrong system ..

The samsung look like it might be a problem .. but did you try making it master and running it on it's own? Make sure that whatever drive you had on the same cable ( boot CD?) didn't also have the same jumper set up .. ie IF the CD ROM is set as master and on the same flat-cable then put the samsung as slave .. but just in case your cable is faulty ( does happen ) remove your fujitsu's, replace withe the single Samsung and try the test again.. double check the setting of the jumper for single drive configuration .. some manufacturers say to place a jumper others say leave blank ..

Have you also tried the tests on Both PC's .. in exactly the same way , booting from CD ?
The set up you showed above seems to prove that certain items on your motherboard .. CD ROM , Fujitsu Hard Drives, RAM , VGA Card, Motherboard are working properly .. that means that you have a way to check out your other motherboard ..

I would suggest also that you enter BIOS and set your Hard drive recognition to AUTO config & AUTO Size .. That way, providing the jumper is set correctly on the drive you install, any drive that is added will be recognised and should work properly if it's not faulty.

Post back your results and we'll take it from there ..

btw .. you mention that booting the word 2000 PC you booted intro win98 .. that is not a problem .. MS Office 2000 can be installed on an older OS .. they are completely different software packages ..
Also if you managed to boot into win 98 .. it means that you are now having one working system .. but since you haven't mentioned as yet as to whether it's OEM or just a system that was installed when you got it .. Is there a Microsoft Windows Sticker on either PC with License key ?

mam91031

For some reason the dell boots, but not the other computer. Thus I might give up on it, as the computer tech suggested, and it is the third time that the computer fails to boot as if it has a short?

I put both Fujitsu drives in the dell and changed to auto configure. The bios now states: Drive 0 - EIDE Drive, 10248 size; Drive 1 - 788 cyl, 255 Hds, -1 Pre, 788 Lz, 63 sec, and 6481 size. Still the computer remains in bios.

The battery has been replaced, whenever I had trouble before. Also the computer has a sticker stating windows NT or windows 98, but no license key or certificate of authenticity. Which scan should I try now? Memory took too long. Malware scan?

OldGrayGary

Hi again all


mam91031 - I think you might want to do a little background reading, to help you manage the steps of system-building. Each step has to go in a certain order, and you are rather jumping ahead in a few spots.

For example, the 'invalid system disk' message doesn't mean that there is anything at all broken about a hard drive: it just means what it says -- that a disk in the boot-order = either the floppy drive, the CD/DVD drive, or the hard drive itself --- isn't currently in a bootable state [that is: a working operating system is not setup on it]. (For more info on that particular error, read all about it --- http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000229.htm ).

A Dell operating system license is tied to it's hardware: if you've usable operating system files on the Dell's original hard drive, and if that drive is mechanically OK, you've a chance to get it working in the Dell case. Dell replacement Recovery disks can be purchased directly from Dell --- https://support.dell.com/support/top...ckupcd_form%20 --- you can call Dell to see if the system you are working on still has disks available.

You won't be able to use the Dell's license on any other computer, but if the hard drive is OK mechanically, you have the option of completely erasing it, and installing a different operating system [either a different license of Windows, or an open-source operating system like Linux].

It seems that all of the hard drives you have mentioned so far are of a fairly ripe age. It has been several years now since 6.4 and 10gb drives were new. You are quite fortunate that the Fujitsu drives are testing out as well as they are! Assuming that the Samsung is of similar size and age, and has yet to be detected correctly, the most likely reason is that it's not ever going to work again: it has completely failed mechanically. [as Done_Fishing notes: the jumpers and cables must be correct for the Samsung to be detected! Double & triple-check the jumpers - and make sure that the Samsung is the ONLY drive connected -- if it doesn't detect under those circumstances, stop trying & take it to a hazardous waste site].
_________

Since you are obviously interested in getting the most out of some older hardware, and perhaps in conserving your costs as well, I'd recommend trying a simple Linux installation. To familiarize yourself with Linux beforehand, you could download and create a Knoppix Live CD (just as you created the UBCD). You can run a Knoppix Live CD just fine on a system with no working hard drive at all! (It does help to have at least 256mb of RAM, however). Knoppix is a version of Linux. The Knoppix Live CD, by default, only mounts the local hard drives as "read only", so you don't risk whatever data is on them. Here's where to find a downloadable Knoppix --- http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html
_________

I mentioned some background reading earlier. There is a tremendous wealth of such information all over the Internet. As far as building PCs goes, a few guides have been around a while --- http://www.pcmech.com/byopc/index.htm --- http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1444 ---

Some good sources for complete coverage of all-things-about-computers:
Guides for all the different parts that make up a computer --- http://www.pcmech.com/hardware.htm (use the menus to the far left-hand side of the screen to navigate)
http://www.hardware.windowsreinstall.com/
Guides for installing Windows under all sorts of cirumstances --- http://www.windowsreinstall.com/
Guides of all sorts of computer tasks --- http://www.pcstats.com/articlesearch...ting&sort=date

Best of luck
. . . Gary

Interested in computer history? --- http://www.computerhope.com/history/

[P.S. ... The memory diagnostics run as long as you let them run: that's OK. You can run malware diagnostics on the detectable drives if you'd like, but that will only make sense if you decide the data on them is useful [if you decide to erase and start over, you'll just zero-write the drives].

Done_Fishin

I'd like to Thank OLDGRAYGARY for sharing those links with us ..

He is also quite right ..Rome wasn't built in a day and it's imperative you understand a few things before you try jumping in the deep end .. we're here to help guide you but you'll have to understand that it's a question of sending you down to the library (internet wise) to read and try putting into practice what you have read .. if after that you have queries or difficulties we will try to get you back on track again .. however we cannot get the PC working for you and there is a lot that we do, as experienced techs, that involves using our eyes and instincts .. when someone else is looking .. we have to work blind because at any given time we might see and jump in on instinct .. but an inexperienced user may not note the relevance of what has passed before their eyes ..

Bartender

You should probly just put the HDD's back where they came from. Instead of addressing the initial problem(s) you've created more by moving them around.
I don't know why a repair shop would suggest swapping the drives; they'd know that wasn't going to work. Maybe they're hoping you'll give up and bring them some business.
Put the HDD's back where they belong and tell us what problems you're having.
EDIT: Sounds to me like you might want to try a lightweight Linux distro like Xubuntu

mam91031

I was trying to fix the dell because the computer technician believed it would be worth more than the other one, especially since the other computer would not boot the monitor at all but a day earlier it would. Also the dell has windows sticker for windows 98 or nt, pentium II, and other additions. The other computer has no stickers or anything to tell what it is at all. Looks as if it was a barebones kit or something.

I did reinstall the hd in the original computer, as you requested. It did turn on this time. I read the following on the pool: not showing diskette a (has one installed), Primary master (fujitsu 2112 mb), primary slave (fujitsu 10248 mb), secondary master (another hd not checked yet, maxtor 61496 mb), and secondary slave (cdrom). The two fujitsu was the ones swapped to the dell.

Whenever I set the jumpers to the original order for the two fujitsu drivers, it states invalid system disk. Whenever I switch them it goes through a cycle as before. Bios screen, pool, then press any key to boot.

Now that the computer turns on should I check the 3rd hd (maxtor)? Why does the diskette A not register? Any other scans?

Someone mentioned that I should check the drives on a computer which works to find out what is exactly on the drives. I'm up for anything. I just want to have a working computer for my brother.

Bartender

mam -
Have you messed with the floppy connections at all? It's easy to get a floppy cable upside down because they're not keyed. If the LED on the front of the floppy is on all the time you got the data cable upside down, probly at the floppy itself rather than the mb.
Anyway, check to make sure the power connections are tight, and the data cable is plugged in securely. Floppy drives are really simple - it either works or you toss it and get another.

As far as your other problems go, I'd simplify things first. Mark down where everything's installed now, then remove everything but the primary drive on the #1 IDE bus. Make sure you've got the jumper on the back of the drive right, then boot it up. Look thru your BIOS, see what makes sense. Now try setting the jumper incorrectly on purpose (say, to "slave") and see what happens. Try putting the drive on the other clip on the data cable. It's good to get a handle on the relationship between the two clips on the data cable and the jumpers on the drives.
Then try installing the optical drive on the #2 IDE cable, and see what happens when you put it on the primary clip vs. the secondary clip. Look at your BIOS again. Take notes. Build up some confidence that you can plug in a drive correctly.
With all those HDD's to play with I'd sure suggest trying Linux!

Done_Fishin

Probably quite right .. but from teh info given it still looks like an outdated system .. The sticker you mention just means that it is possible to install any of the systems .. a proper license would say what OS was installed and give a key for validation ..

Not sure what you mean by the pool ?? Did it boot into windows and you were looking in "My Computer" ??

Invalid system disk just means that No operating system has been installed or found .. it doesn't mean that they are not working .. just not bootable .. hence you are being asked to place a bootable disk somewhere ( CD or Floppy).

Try creating a bootable Floppy disk .. downloadable from many sites or from within any XP , Me or Win98 installation. An Emergency boot disk is probably most helpful from Win9x or Me unless your drives have been formatted with ntfs .. in which case you'd be best adding to an install of NT or XP ..as an extra drive .. you'll be able to check to see what files are on the drive and see what might be worth recovering.

Drive "A" might not be registering since it may not be enabled in BIOS, you aren't in windows, you haven't booted from that drive .. try a boot diskette (floppy) to see if it tries to and succeeds booting ..

As has been said before .. by adding the drives to another PC you will be able to run various WINDOWS based tests .. including browsing whatever files are on teh drives .. If you use WinMe .. you won't be able to see NTFS formatted drives, so it might be best to look at the drives using XP ...addf the drives as an extra internal drive .. taking care of jumper configurations between existing drives and the one you are adding ..

or .. you can use a USB to IDE adapter & power supply .. make sure though the drive is set master . (or Cable select , most don't see a drive in Slave configuration)