xoloxxoo

A friend of mine gave me her old computer to cannabalize when she bought a new one. I only needed the monitor and want to donate the tower, keyboard, oem software disks, etc. to a Hospice thrift store. All my friend asks is that I don't let her personal info out in public.

I know how to do a 'format c:/', but I can't remember if that would then kill the CD driver and make it impossible to reload the oem stuff. OTOH, I worry that doing the Aptiva reload won't actually clear the hard drive. Is there any way that I can be reasonably sure that her financial and other info is off the hard drive?

Thanks for any help you can give.

Xolo
(edit="IMpossible")

8210GUY

Well your in a highly talked about area there, and many different opinions on what works etc, but am I to take it from what you have written that this was a pre-installed set up with a hidden partition with disks to reset it to as though it just came out of the box ?
If so the options I would use are out the window as they involve zeroing the drive, so about the best thought I have here is to use something like spybot to delete the files you want to remove that contain the sensitive info, never used it but within it there is a setting to how many times it deletes an item, the default is 5 times, but you could set it to 10 it would just take longer, wont be a quick thing if theres lots of stuff, and from a quick look I just did you will need to go through the files and remove files that don't matter or you will be forever running it to complete the task.

I also suggest using system file cleaners such as CleanUp! and more importantly CCleaner, with this check the bottom options box to check all the boxes under it and run it, it will remove ALL the files from those locations, once you have physically removed everything you can find use the disks to restore it to a new state, but if someone was determined enough they might be able to recover files this way, but that said most will probably not have the tools or experience to do it, but if this is not one of those systems where the files are on a hidden partition then we can zero the drive to have a better chance of removing the data, hope this helps.

xoloxxoo

WOW!!! Thanks for the quick reply!

You're correct in that the oem software does a restore to factory condition. Sorry, but I don't know about hidden partitions, although I do know what a partition is.

The computer is a Compaq Presario 5800 series with Win 98 OS. There is a RAM expansion card and an added-later CD-RW drive. My friend has her banking info on it.

I'm not sure that I understand all of your instructions...ie...I don't know what you mean by 'zero the drive'. I do have CCleaner and could use mine on CD or download a copy for the other machine. I can also put Spybot on the Compaq. I've never used a multiple run with Spybot but I probably can figure it out and also know how to manually delete the personal files.

If I understand you I should:

1. Manually delete whatever
2. Run CCleaner with the bottom box checked
and
3. Then run Spybot 10 times?

I agree that the average person buying a computer from a charity resale shop probably wouldn't have the expertise, but I'd feel just horrible if my friend's info did get into the wrong hands, after she was kind enough to let me have the monitor and agree to the charity donation. I'd hate for her to become a victim of the 'no kindness goes unpunished' saying.

Again, 8210GUY, thank you so much for the help! I truly appreciate it as I'm not (as you can tell) an OS person. I know just enough to be dangerous.

Xolo

OldGrayGary

Hi all

Curious -- a Compaq Presario should have a Compaq Recovery Disk: what role did you have in mind for an "Aptiva" disk? (if my memory is holding up today, Aptiva's were IBMs).

At any rate, to thoroughly wipe all chances of your friends financial information from being read from the hard drive, use the killdisk utility -- and then run a "Full" Recovery using the Compaq Recovery disks. None of your donor's original information survives that procedure.

You can grab killdisk from this link --- http://www.killdisk.com/downloadfree.htm

Best of luck
. . . Gary

xoloxxoo

Gary, sorry...that was a 'braino' and not a 'typo'. I have an IBM Aptiva and my brain just skidded into a more comfortable groove. My apologies and my thanks for the info. I will do exactly as you say.

After running the killdisk utility, will the Compaq ( ) recognize the restore disk? Should I have it in the CD drive on boot-up?

Again, my thanks...and my apologies.

8210GUY

No you got the order the wrong way round, sorry if I made it sound confusing but as you said it's not the easiest of subjects lol.

Now with the disk do you have the OS disk ? or do you simply have a disk that resets the PC to out of the box state ?
If it's the latter then it has a hidden partition where the OS and ALL other files are stored out of sight, and if you zero the drive it will wipe that info so you will have nothing but a blank disk.
Zeroing the drive basically means writing zero's to the whole drive which formats it to be a clean drive.

Now the order, use spybot 1st, I had another look at it as I've never used it for this purpose before, and under the advanced tools that you need to activate under the menu to see you can select tools - secure shredder, this will bring up a list of folders it can remove, I suggest going through the list and removing any folders that are not relevant or else it will take forever to do, I then suggest locating the folder(s) thats left if it contains all the info you want to destroy, if not move ALL the files you want to dispose of into one of these folders that you leave then run the shredder for the amount of times you want, 5 is the default, the more times the stronger and longer the deletion becomes.

Now due to the number of folders it will add if you hold down the ctrl button while clicking on the folder(s) to remove you can do them in one click instead of one at a time, now these folders appear when you click on the menu and select add files from temp folder under the templates button, you can navigate to each folder in turn to check what it contains before deciding to leave or remove it before running this, then as I said move all the files you want destroyed into any of the folders you will be cleaning out and run the cleaner by clicking chop it away at the bottom right corner of it, but this may take a long time depending on how much and how many times you choose to do it.

So in short:-
1/ Run spybot and move the files into the folder as described above then run the shredder.
2/ manually delete any other files you want gone.
3/ Run CCleaner checking the box as described previously to clean up anything thats left.
4/ Use the disks to set the PC back to out of the box and you as done as you can be.

*edit
Just saw the above, killdisk is a way of zeroing the drive, if your OS etc is on a hidden partition it will wipe that as well, thats why I didn't suggest it above, because I suspect your stuff is on a hidden partition, if you can confirm this about the OS disk or whether it's simply a restore disk it will confirm my thoughts or not, but there are better utility's than killdisk that can be set to multiple runs but with this you have to buy it before you can do that.

xoloxxoo

8210guy:

Again, thanks. The restore disk is the one Compaq includes to restore the computer to box-new. I don't know how to tell about hidden partitions. I really don't care how long it takes (within reason) as I can run it while I sleep tonight. As far as the 'killdisk' utility, I'm an older woman on disability and, frankly, I can't afford to buy a utility just to clean a computer to donate it. If I have to buy something, I'd rather just remove the hard drive and then throw the computer away in one place and the drive in another and that would be SUCH a waste. I'd rather that someone even poorer than I am got a chance to have a decent, if old, computer. Maybe a kid just learning in school or another elderly person?

I've printed out your post, if you could just tell me how to be sure about the hidden partition so that I don't ruin the machine, I'll give it a go. I'm pretty good a following directions, even if my brain does slip sideways, once in awhile. Heh.

Or tell me if I can do it with killdisk or if that is too dangerous in the hands of someone not all that skilled with OS.

Thanks,

Xolo

OldGrayGary

Hi all


Tell you what, to simplify things: post the Presario's model #, and we can take a look at what sort of Recovery Disk you have. Many from the Windows 98 era will re-create the hard drive as it arrived from the factory (it re-creates any hidden partitions - or recovery partitions - as well).

Regarding erasing the disk -- I think for the purpose at hand, any utility that zeroes will do. Multiple passes are generally only necessary for Dept. of Defense considerations. The re-imaging of the drive afterwards is going to overwrite much of it anyway -- so you should be OK regardless of your cleaning utility.

Regarding Recoveries: it is usually the "Partial" sort of recovery that relies on the information on the recovery partition (sometimes hidden, sometimes not). If you are performing a "Full" recovery, it's just the same procedure as if you'd replaced the hard drive with a new drive fresh from the store. Which is the state of the drive after it has been "zeroed" (completely erased).

If you'd like, post the model, and we'll make sure -
. . . Gary

[P.S. ... you can use the free version of killdisk - or the free diagnostics utility from the hard drive manufacturer's website]

8210GUY

Well if you only have a restore disk then it means you do have a hidden partition, if you had the actual operating system disk then we could of simply zeroed the drive, and don't worry about spending money there is nearly always an alternate choice that is as good or sometimes better and free, but if you only have a restore disk then you do have a hidden partition which means zeroing the drive is out as it will wipe the hidden partition as well.

What I will quickly mention is do not touch or change anything other than what we discuss here under these advance settings or you will mess up the PC, so to aid that I've launched and will do a walk through to aid you is following direction as it is a very powerful program.

Launch it (obviously lol) then click on Mode at the top and select Advanced Mode to show the options we need.

Now on the left toward the bottom you will see more options, click on the one that says Tools, then on the left again click on Secure Shredder.

Now use the Templates drop down box at the top and select Add Files from Temp Folder, you will get a warning pop up just take notice of what it says and OK it, but it is telling you about the number of files the same as I am doing thats all, and this is the overkill method belt and braces as some would say, and to see what would be removed, and more so if it needed to be removed, you will need to navigate to each folder in turn and see what is in it, then decide if to remove it or not.
I have never done this so can't say what is in these folders, maybe nothing to do with what you want to remove, most of it probably has nothing to do with what you want, but maybe just maybe a folder or to may have something you do want removed, it's up to you how you want to do it.

Now to view some of these folders if you want to check them out it wouldn't surprise me if some (if not all) were hidden system folders, if you can't see what you looking for click on Tools at the top of the browser window, NOT spybot, the window to track down the files in, then select Folder Options, then click on the View tab and check the box that says Show hidden Files and Folder's, then you should be able to see them if you couldn't before.

Now for the shortcut method which I just found, the problem with this method is it will only remove the things we put in there, so if any info is hidden in one of the temp folders then it wont remove that, but if your happy knowing the stuff you see that you want gone is dealt with then that again is up to you, but here ie how to do this method.

As per the previous instructions up to the point of the drop down box, instead of using the drop down box to add files instead right click inside the open\white window where the files will be listed, by right clicking there you will see 2 options, click on the option to Add File(s) to the list..

Now simply navigate (the same way you would steer a download to where you want it) to the folder(s) you want to be cleaned with the info in, once your happy you have added all the files you want removed and set it to how many times to delete it ie 10 (5 being the default) , just click on Chop it Away at the bottom right of it to start, should you of added a folder by mistake, or change your mind about a folder, simply right click on it and select Remove from the list and it wont be touched once it's gone from there.

8210GUY

Really ? I didn't know that, I was under the impression that the pre installed systems held ALL the required files on a hidden partition, and using the restore disk simply accesses that hidden partition to use them to reinstate the PC, I know thats how my last store bought PC was done, and that if I zeroed the drive on that PC I would lose my OS and everything, I thought that was the case with all these set ups ?

But I know I have on many occasions recovered data from zeroed drives with little effort, I even once had to rely on getting the data back after formatting and reinstalling because I could not back it up, but I certainly don't suggest trying that because if it fails your lost, I've even got data back from multiple formats as well, thats why I'm belt and braces over such things as I know if I can get stuff back then anyone else with the right gear can.

xoloxxoo

OK, Gentlemen, thanks millions! Guy, I think I'll go with your directions because, if you say you recovered zeroed data, then someone else could probably do it and I just want to be sure that my friend's data is safe, short of throwing the HD in the local lake to sleep with the fishes.

I think that I'll wait until morning to follow up on this because I don't want to make a mistake through sleepiness. I'll post back here when I'm done, whether or not I have any problems.

Gary, thanks for your help, too. I know that nothing is foolproof but I'd like to think that only a government fool could get the data (heh...my real apologies to all government non-fools) and Guy says that he's recovered zeroed data. Since I'm nowhere near as expert as you are, I think I'd better go for the method that doesn't require that I actually know what I'm doing and where I'm just following directions. I'm sure that YOU could zero a disk with no problems but I'm just as sure that I couldn't do it.

(BTW - the Model is the Compaq Presario 5838.)

Sincerely,

Xolo

OldGrayGary

Hi again all

Guy -- When you recovered data from a zeroed drive, were you using the professional tools from Ontrack? [Or do you work for InterPol :) ] It's true reformatting doesn't cover tracks very well, especially if you can try a recovery right away = before anything else overwrites it. Once zeroed and re-imaged, the data is generally hard to get at (but still possible, if outside of the reimaged area). [Then there are the forensics folks who actually take the drive apart and physically inspect it's surface . . . when corporations need that done, it's a pretty dollar or two].

I think Compaq and HP moved away from Recovery Disk sets that included a drive image after the Windows Me models (full image -- included Windows on it, along with all the bundled software). That's when using Restore partitions came into wider use: both HP and Compaq now ask users to create their own CD/DVD Recovery Disks --using the CD/DVD burner that their PCs come with nowadays. These Recovery Disks, if made right, contain Windows along with everything else. But a great many folks never get around to making them!

Xolo - You're friend should be happy to have someone so willing to help her get her old PC ready for donation [I'm thinking a box of chocolates should be heading your way :) ]. Yes, you'll be in good shape following Guy's instructions [he writes very clearly, too: long ago I taught English, so let's give him an A!]

Best of luck!
. . . Gary

8210GUY

LOL no I'm just a person like the rest of you, I'm just fortunate enough to know a qualified m$ tech who has some recovery software called GetDataBack, it isn't infallible but I have recovered data from zeroed drives, even 2 or 3 passes of zeroing but it does start to struggle after that, I do have a vague recollection of bleaching, it's the same process as spybot uses by multiple deleting, but I can't recall the application that has it.
But ultimately data can nearly always be recovered no matter what you do, people have taken hammers to drives and put them in fires to destroy them but the pro's were still able to recover some parts of the data, but we are talking extreme situations involving world events here, but with the everyday run of the mill person they would be unlikely to recover stuff.

Jlp1928

Hi All,

OldGrayGary has it right. It's not near as easy to recover data that's been written over as it appears to be on the TV Shows.

Luck, Jim

JoeGons

I use a program called Eraser. No fuss!!!

andyenglish

Okay, maybe I'm saying something that's been said before, but here's what I'd do (Win 98, right? And assuming you have a system recovery disk that came with the computer.)...

1. If you don't have one yet, generate a StartUp disk and reboot with it. (It should "Enable CD-ROM support" along the way. Just ignore that, you shouldn't need it. The Recovery CD should have it's own drivers, if it's the one that came in the same box.)
2. When it's done loading, type FDISK and remove all/any partitions on the HD. Exit FDISK. Reboot with StartUp disk again.
3. At the A: prompt, type in FORMAT C: and hit enter. Follow the instructions and that will wipe the disk for general purposes. (As mentioned before, for DOD purposes, we would do this several times with a more powerful program--I think the standard is alternating 1's and 0's five times over to remove residual magnetic "shadows" on the surface of the disk.)
4. After it's done formatting, remove the Startup disk and reboot with the Recovery CD-ROM.
Good Luck and Kudos! for not letting another computer hit the landfill!
-Andy

Chevy

Just to add my $.02 .... When it comes to wiping a file, free space, or an entire partition to prevent data recover, use BC-Wipe.

Why?

It meets US DoD (Department of Defense) standards for wiping classified information. Unless you have the resources of a nation-state, you will not be able to recover any data afterwards.

Bartender

Chevy
do you prefer BCWipe over Dban?