the_timinator

Hiya. I'm new to the forum so please be nice! I have recently purchased a Powercolor ATI Radeon 9200se. I have followed the installation instructions and I am faced with two problems.

1) The screen is plugged in to the card but when I switch my PC on the screen just stays in standby mode and the computer doesn't really sound like its doing a lot.

I then figured this was because I needed to install the drivers first but:

2) The drivers refuse to install! They start up ok "preparing the installshield wizard" and all that and then the program just crashes back to the desktop.

Is there something I'm not doing?

Here's my spec:
OS: XP
Intel Celeron 1.3 Ghz
256MB ram
Intel 82810e graphics controller

I'm pretty sure its "on-board" graphics but I'm a newbie when it comes to upgrades. This is my first attempt. I know about AGP and PCI and that my computer has three free PCI slots and no AGP slot.

I read something about uninstalling old drivers but because I didn't actually install any myself they don't appear in the add/remove programs list. I tried disabling the Intel graphics controller and then plugging in the new card but still no joy.

Any help would be appreciated as I am very much a novice when it comes to this sort of thing.

UncleMacro

When you're adding a PCI video card to an Intel 810E motherboard you don't have to uninstall the existing display drivers. Most 810E motherboards don't allow you to disable on the onboard video anyway. The steps for that kind of installation are:
1) Go into the BIOS (BIOS basics here) and set "Primary Video Display" to "PCI". It may also be called "Init Display First" or "Primary VGA Display" or something like that. It may already be set to PCI. This step tells the motherboard that the PCI video card should be the "primary" card on which everything is displayed.
2) Turn the machine off and install the PCI video card and connect the monitor to the PCI card.
3) Turn the machine on and boot Windows. Then install the display drivers for your PCI video card.

It looks like you missed step 1. You should go into your BIOS and check that the primary video display is set to PCI.

the_timinator

If I follow steps 1 and 2 then the driver install program should run right?

the_timinator

I've looked through my BIOS but I can't see any of the functions you mentioned. "Primary Video Display", "Init Display First" and "Primary Video Display" just don't seem to be there.

There is a section with "PCI IRQ line 1", "PCI IRQ line 2" and "PCI IRQ line 3" and they are all set to "auto". I'm guessing this may be to do with the 3 free PCI slots and I am wondering if this is what I am looking for. If so what should I change the values to?

dai

can you see onboard in the device manager

the_timinator

You mean the word "onboard" or my onboard video adapter? Because that appears in the device manager list.

dai

start from the onboard
if the ati drivers are listed in add and remove uninstall them
in the device manager right click on the onboard entry and choose disable
if the new card is listed right click on it and uninstall
turn off the computer
if the new card was not seen in the device manager reseat it
if it was change the monitor cable from the onboard to the new card
start the computer tapping f8 and choose vga mode
when windows finishes booting and reinstalling the card
disable a/virus
install your drivers
reboot the computer

the_timinator

Hi

I am trying to alter the video settings in my BIOS so I can boot from a new PCI video card I have. Except there is no option anywhere in the BIOS to switch from the onboard graphics to the PCI slot. Is there another way?

Perhaps this is a "hidden" BIOS setting. Is there a way of accessing extra settings for a BIOS?

UncleMacro

It's rare to have a motherboard without the "Primary Display" option. Do you know what motherboard you have? Is it a pre-built computer (Dell, HP, etc.)? If so, what's the model number? You may be able to get the motherboard information by running Everest. To get the information in Everest, click the "+" to the left of "Motherboard" in the list on the left and then click "Motherboard" in the sublist which opens up. It will tell you the motherboard name and motherboard manufacturer.

the_timinator

I got this off the Packard Bell website


Name: Challenger (P6IWF) Rev C
Type: Flex-ATX motherboard
Manufacturer: EliteGroup Computer Systems (E.C.S.)


Does that help?

UncleMacro

If this is what your BIOS screens look like then you don't have an option to select the PCI video card as your primary video display. You can hopefully still get it to work with your PCI video card but to see the BIOS startup screen and any Windows startup screens (like the one which allows you to select safe mode or VGA mode) you're probably going to have to connect the monitor back to your onboard video. That's not going to show up on your PCI card.

I think the best thing to do is get the onboard video running properly again and just see if you can get the 9200 driver installed. If that won't work then the video card isn't going to work no matter what you do.
1) Download and run this program from ATI. It will uninstall any ATI software which is currently on your computer. If some of the ATI display drivers were partially installed then this will get rid of them.
2) Make sure that your onboard video is up to date. It's better to uninstall the old drivers before installing new ones but since they don't show up in "Add or Remove Programs" you can't really do that. Go into the Device Manager and uninstall the "onboard video adapter" or whatever they call it.
3) When it reboots "Cancel" out of any "Found New Hardware" window and then run this file from Intel. It's the most up-to-date display driver for an Intel 810 running WinXP. After you reboot your onboard video will be all up to date.
4) Turn the machine off and remove the 9200 and then plug it back in again into a different slot. Make sure you push it all the way into the slot. Lots of people think the card is plugged all the way in when it really isn't. It's a common mistake even among experienced people. If nothing below works then you can try different PCI slots and see if it starts working. Every now and then (it's not common) it will work in one slot and not another.
5) Leave the monitor connected to the onboard video and let the machine start up. If you don't see a "Found New Hardware" window for the 9200 then it's probably not being recognized by the motherboard and it's not going to work at all (assuming you seated the card properly). If you see a "Found New Hardware" window then "Cancel" out of it.
6) Download and run this program from ATI. It's the latest "Control Panel" version of the display drivers for WinXP. Sometimes the "Catalyst Control Center" version of the drivers causes problems so I'd try the "Control Panel" version first.
7) Assuming everything worked so far then reboot with the monitor still attached to the onboard video. Take a look in the Device Manager and see if the 9200 is showing up properly. If the 9200 shows up okay then try to disable the onboard video and shut the machine down.
8) Move the monitor to the 9200 and cross your fingers. The startup screens probably won't appear on the monitor but if things are working then Windows will eventually show up on your monitor.

the_timinator

Thanks very much, thats brilliant. The only problem is that after I uninstall the onboard adapter it detects it again and then automatically re-installs the drivers again. I can't cancel out of any "found new hardware" window, it just continues.

The rest of the stuff you found is great though.

dai

your not supposed to uninstall it,of course it will find it and reinstall it
you disable it

UncleMacro

Windows will do that if it has a built-in driver for your display adapter. There's nothing you can do about it. Just go ahead and run the intel file to install the drivers for the onboard video and then reboot. Then you can continue with step 4.

dai

vga mode stops windows loading it's version of the drivers

UncleMacro

The reason that I rarely suggest using VGA mode is because I've seen cases on my own machine where the display driver refused to install in VGA mode. I don't know why it happened but it was repeatable. If you boot Windows normally then it just installs a built-in display driver which you don't need to uninstall before installing the "real" display driver. The built-in drivers automatically disappear without problems when the "real" driver is loaded the next time you boot. I only try VGA mode or safe mode in the very rare case when booting Windows the regular way automatically installs a non built-in display driver. I've seen that happen before too but it's extremely uncommon. In my experience it doesn't matter whether you use VGA mode or a normal boot as long as Windows automatically installs the built-in driver. It works fine either way.

dai

it must be something on your compter causing it,ati states in their install instructions that their drivers have to be installed from vga mode
i a;lways check after installing that a rollback cannot be performed,if it can,then i reinstall until there is no rollback

UncleMacro

Dai, I'm not trying to be disagreeable or anything here but I just downloaded ATI's installation instructions from here and I don't see where they say anything about VGA mode. They basically say the standard stuff: install your GART driver, uninstall your old display driver, insert the card and hook up the power cables, escape out of "Found New Hardware" for Win2K and WinXP, and then insert the driver CD. There's nothing wrong with installing in VGA mode (except in that weird case which happened to me I think with an ancient NVIDIA card). I just don't see anything that says you're supposed to do it in VGA mode.

From ATI's document:

Windows® New Hardware Found
Windows may start the Add New Hardware Wizard to
install the Standard VGA Driver. To correctly install
your new hardware:
Cancel the Wizard if you are using Windows® 2000 or
Windows® XP, and proceed to Installing the
CATALYST™ Software Suite on page 13.

Getting Started 13

Installing the CATALYST™ Software
Suite
ATI’s CATALYST software suite provides the ultimate
software required to enjoy the full acceleration of your
ATI Graphics Accelerator card. The CATALYST software
suite comprises four, distinct software elements:
• Driver.
• Multimedia Center.
• HydraVision (not included in the Express Install).
• Remote Wonder Software.
To ensure you install the latest software, use the ATI
Installation CD-ROM that shipped with your ATI
Graphics Accelerator card.
To install the CATALYST software suite
1 Insert the ATI INSTALLATION CD-ROM into your
CD-ROM drive.
If Windows® runs the CD-ROM automatically,
proceed to step 6.
2 Click Start.
3 Select Run.
4 Type the following: D:\ATISETUP
(If D is not your CD-ROM drive, substitute D with the
correct drive letter.)
5 Click OK.
6 Click Install under Software Install.
7 Click Next.
8 Click Yes to the license agreement.
9 ATI Easy Install to begin the Installation Wizard.
10 Follow the Wizard’s on-screen instructions to complete
the installation.

Troubleshooting Tips
The following troubleshooting tips may help if you
experience problems. Contact your dealer or ATI for
more advanced troubleshooting information.
• Check that the card is seated properly in the AGP or
PCI slot.
• Ensure that the monitor cable is securely fastened to
the card’s monitor connector.
• Make sure that the monitor and computer are plugged
in and receiving power.
• If necessary, disable any built-in graphics capabilities
on your motherboard. For more information, consult
your computer’s manual or manufacturer. (NOTE:
Some manufacturers do not allow the built-in graphics
to be disabled or to become the secondary display.)
• For more troubleshooting tips, right-click the ATI icon
in the taskbar and select Troubleshooting.
• If you have problems during bootup, start your
computer in Safe Mode. Hold the CTRL key until the
Microsoft® Windows® Startup Menu appears on the
screen. Then select the number for Safe Mode, and
press Enter. (You can also use F8 to bring up the
Microsoft® Windows® Startup Menu.) In Safe Mode,
go to the Device Manager and remove all duplicate
display adapter and monitor entries if you are only
using one graphics card.
• For more assistance, use the Troubleshooting Guide
located in the Windows® Help or contact your
computer manufacturer.


From ATI's on-line instructions:

Uninstalling the ATI Control Panel and Display Driver

This section provides information on uninstalling the previous versions of your ATI Control Panel and ATI Display Driver for your Radeon® product.
Note: If you are using Windows 2000 or Windows XP, ensure that you have logged in with system administrative rights.

Before you can install the latest Catalyst™ software driver for your Radeon® product, you must uninstall the previous ATI Control Panel. To do this, follow these steps:

1. Navigate to the Add/Remove programs tool provided by Microsoft. This tool is found in the Control Panel.
Note: Ensure all other applications are closed before continuing with the uninstall of the ATI Display Driver.
2. Click the Change/Remove button. The ATI Control Panel Setup window is displayed.
3. Select Remove, and click Next. A Confirm File Deletion dialog box is displayed.
4. Click OK. The ATI Control Panel Setup window is displayed.
5. Select No, and click Finish. You are returned to the Add/Remove Program tool.

You have successfully uninstalled the ATI Control Panel.

You are now ready to uninstall the ATI Display Driver. To do this, follow these steps:

1. Select ATI Display Driver in the Add/Remove Program tool.
2. Click the Change/Remove button.
Note: If you have multiple display adapters installed, a dialog box will appear instructing you to choose which ATI Display driver to uninstall. Click the Select All button.
3. Click Yes when prompted to confirm the uninstall of the ATI Display Driver.
4. Reboot your system as prompted to compete the uninstall of the ATI Display Driver.
Note: If you are prompted to start the installation of a display driver upon boot up, click CANCEL

You have successfully uninstalled the previous version of the ATI Display Driver and ATI Control Panel.
Installing the latest Catalyst™ Software Suite

This section provides information on installing the latest Catalyst™ Software Suite for your Radeon® product. To install the driver, follow these steps:

1. Navigate to the Catalyst™ Download folder on your desktop. Double-click on the folder to view its content.
2. Double click the Catalyst™ software suite you have downloaded. Accept all the default prompts.
3. Restart your system as required.

You have successfully installed the latest Catalyst™ software suite.
Catalyst™ CREW Driver Feedback

This driver release incorporates suggestions received through the Catalyst™ CREW Driver Feedback program. To provide us with your feedback, visit: Catalyst™ CREW Driver Feedback.

dai

you are right there is nothing in there,i assumed there was after a problem with a newly purchased 9200 that would only display from the dvi plug and nothing from the annalouge and being told to install from vga mode.assumed there was
the card was returned and tested and found to be working,so they claimed the adi monitor was not compatible and refunded the full cost of the card
but have always used and recommended that method since as i found it stopped windows installing it's version of the drivers before you had a chance to install the ones you want
when you have just told someone to uninstall everything,the only way they will see anything on the monitor is from vga or safemode and safemode reinstalls the windows version if you don't choose no
i always say to uninstall everything and use vga mode so there is no chance of a conflict between old drivers and new and the only times it has not been successful is when the instructions have not been followed or have onboard and don't think to mention it
or the card is faulty